Why SEIDs patients should avoid cats

[gbells]

I recently read that a large number of europeans are asymptomatically, chronically infected with toxoplasmosis gondii parasite (50%). I looked up how this organism infects and learned that it suppresses apoptotic cell death by stimulating Nf-kB and blocking caspase 8. The treatment I am working on for SEIDS/herpes virus dual infection requires caspase 8 to trigger necroapototic cell death. I realized that somone infected with toxoplasmosis along with the herpes viruses would fail treatment because the cells would be resistant to apoptosis and couldn't be cleared.

20% of US cats are infected with toxoplasmosis. I think SEIDs patients should avoid cats for this reason. Get a dog, fish, bird, turtle but avoid cats.

Of course, if you already have toxoplasmosis then it doesn't really matter.

 

[MTpockets]

I thought that toxoplasmosis was one of those things that everyone carried and no one has symptoms except a lucky few. Am I wrong?

 

[gbells]

I thought that toxoplasmosis was one of those things that everyone carried and no one has symptoms except a lucky few. Am I wrong?

In the United States it is estimated that 11% of the population 6 years and older have been infected with Toxoplasma.

Toxoplasmosis is not passed from person-to-person, except in instances of mother-to-child (congenital) transmission and blood transfusion or organ transplantation.

https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/toxoplasmosis/epi.html

Toxo isn't transmissible from your partner if they have it (whew) however a mother can give it to their baby. So a toxo positive mom with SEIDs may want to decide against having kids.

 

[Avena]

I thought that toxoplasmosis was one of those things that everyone carried and no one has symptoms except a lucky few. Am I wrong?

You are right.

And a pregnant person tested negative on toxoplasmosis antibodies (routine screen in my part of the world) is not even told to avoid cats. Just to avoid their excrements (to not empty their litter box themselves for example).

 

[southwestforests]

It seems that while cats get the popular blame your kitchen is more dangerous to you than your cat is,

The researchers point out that eating undercooked meat — whether organic or conventionally raised — especially pork, lamb and wild game such as venison, is one of the main ways people become infected with the toxoplasma parasite. People can also contract the infection by not washing raw fruits and vegetables, which may have come in contact with soil contaminated by cat feces.

https://www.livescience.com/20856-organic-meat-toxoplasmosis-parasite-risk.html

Also:

Causes

Toxoplasma gondii (T. gondii) is a single-celled parasitic organism that can infect most animals and birds. Because T. gondii infectious organisms are excreted only in cat feces, wild and domestic cats are the parasite's ultimate host.

Although you can't "catch" toxoplasmosis from an infected child or adult, you can become infected if you:

• Come into contact with cat feces that contain the parasite. You may accidentally ingest the parasites if you touch your mouth after gardening, cleaning a litter box or touching anything that has come in contact with infected cat feces. Cats who hunt or who are fed raw meat are most likely to harbor T. gondii.
• Eat or drink contaminated food or water. Lamb, pork and venison are especially likely to be infected with T. gondii. Occasionally, unpasteurized dairy products also may contain the parasite. Water contaminated with T. gondii isn't common in the United States.
• Use contaminated knives, cutting boards or other utensils. Kitchen utensils that come into contact with raw meat can harbor the parasites unless the utensils are washed thoroughly in hot, soapy water.
• Eat unwashed fruits and vegetables. The surface of fruits and vegetables may contain the parasite. To be safe, thoroughly wash and peel all produce, especially any you eat raw.
• Receive an infected organ transplant or transfused blood. In rare cases, toxoplasmosis can be transmitted through an organ transplant or blood transfusion.

• https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/toxoplasmosis/symptoms-causes/syc-20356249

 

[pattismith]

Several papers have already stated that dogs play a role in toxoplasmosis transmission:

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(03)90112-3/pdf

Anyway, I have always live with cats and dogs and am still negative for toxo at 52 years old...

 

[gbells]

Several papers have already stated that dogs play a role in toxoplasmosis transmission:

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(03)90112-3/pdf

Anyway, I have always live with cats and dogs and am still negative for toxo at 52 years old...

According to that article it speculates that the dog must have contact with an infected cat. Along those lines people should also be able to transmit it through feces. But according to the CDC that doesn't happen. Anyway, not having cats around eliminates the dog problem unless the dog is around cats.

 

[pattismith]

According to that article it speculates that the dog must have contact with an infected cat. Along those lines people should also be able to transmit it through feces. But according to the CDC that doesn't happen. Anyway, not having cats around eliminates the dog problem unless the dog is around cats.

many dogs like to eat cat feces outside, there is no need for them to live together for the contamination to occur.

 

[Avena]

The treatment I am working on for SEIDS/herpes virus dual infection requires caspase 8 to trigger necroapototic cell death. I realized that somone infected with toxoplasmosis along with the herpes viruses would fail treatment

I understand the purpose of this thread is to make people without the toxoplasmosis antibodies aware of the danger of not being subject to your possible future treatment for SEID? Fair enough.

What treatment is this? Is toxoplasmosis antibodies the only thing the non-response group had in common that differ them from the response group? Was all with toxoplasmosis antibodies non-responders? Is everyone without antibodies responders? How many has tested the treatment in total? Has the results been peer reviewed and published?

 

[gbells]

I understand the purpose of this thread is to make people without the toxoplasmosis antibodies aware of the danger of not being subject to your possible future treatment for SEID? Fair enough.

What treatment is this? Is toxoplasmosis antibodies the only thing the non-response group had in common that differ them from the response group? Was all with toxoplasmosis antibodies non-responders? Is everyone without antibodies responders? How many has tested the treatment in total? Has the results been peer reviewed and published?

Hello Avena,

I'm at a very informal level now. I'm a SEIDs patient myself since 2008 and my treatment investigation has been self experimentation in conjunction with MDs. I didn't want to jump the gun and rush forward with a half baked system. It isn't peer reviewed and published. It has been changed many times as new information has been integrated and treatment approaches have failed.

I can't think of a reason to treat people with positive toxo antibodies and symptoms unless we could identify a way to inactivate caspase-8. For cytomegalovirus at least there are antiviral medications that can be used that might make it dormant and allow the cells to apoptose. Toxo really is a sad situation that needs research funding.

On a prevention level, I think good HHV6 and EBV vaccines would prevent a large number of SEIDs cases. Also advising patients with mononuclosis to avoid risky behaviors that might expose them to HHV6, toxoplamosis, bartonella, rickettsia until they fully recover so they don't get a coinfection that develops into SEIDs.

 

[gbells]

I spent a few hours researching and may have found a work around to the toxoplasmosis problem. The caspase 8 problem looks to be downstream of a block in BAX protein from the toxo. If a way to raise BAX can be found then it might cure it through apoptosis. Curcumin raises BAX so it might be enough to overcome the effect and become treatable.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5349139/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5349139/
https://www.spandidos-publications.com/mmr/12/1/1151

There are also a few chemotherapy drugs which indirectly raise BAX that could be tried.