Why does d-ribose make me sleepy ? How to overcome it ?
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nanonug
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Extra d-ribose may increase your levels of adenosine. Adenosine makes you sleepy. Caffeine should be able to counter the effect of extra adenosine.
Be careful with the caffeine. In my experience, once you become tolerant of a certain caffeine level you’ll need that much caffeine to just be at “normal”. I inadvertently got used to drinking a lot of coffee but never on a solid schedule. Some days I’d drink a lot in the morning other days it would be very spaced out throughout the day.
It got to the point where, unbeknownst to me, I needed at least 200mg in one shot to get me to feel awake. When I didn’t have enough all at once, which was everyday, I suffered from immense brain fog, fatigue, sluggishness etc.
My body had compensated for all the extra caffeine by adjusting adenosine and it’s receptors. The extra adenosine and/or adenosine receptors are probably what caused most of my symptoms on days where I didn’t drink enough coffee all at once. My days off were usually the worst because I never drank as much coffee on days off.
I’ve since quit caffeine and feel much better waking up in the morning. My energy levels, motivation and brain fog have all improved but it’s a long road. I’ve read other's experiences who say it took 6-8 months to start feeling better while a few said the journey took years!
It got to the point where, unbeknownst to me, I needed at least 200mg in one shot to get me to feel awake. When I didn’t have enough all at once, which was everyday, I suffered from immense brain fog, fatigue, sluggishness etc.
My body had compensated for all the extra caffeine by adjusting adenosine and it’s receptors. The extra adenosine and/or adenosine receptors are probably what caused most of my symptoms on days where I didn’t drink enough coffee all at once. My days off were usually the worst because I never drank as much coffee on days off.
I’ve since quit caffeine and feel much better waking up in the morning. My energy levels, motivation and brain fog have all improved but it’s a long road. I’ve read other's experiences who say it took 6-8 months to start feeling better while a few said the journey took years!
nanonug
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Doesn't appear to be the case. Caffeine has other effects on the body besides working as a competitive antagonist of adenosine. In any case, and as far as I am concerned, starting the day with a good cup of coffee is one of my life's simple pleasures.
Role of adenosine receptors in caffeine tolerance
Abstract
Caffeine is a competitive antagonist at adenosine receptors. Receptor up-regulation during chronic drug treatment has been proposed to be the mechanism of tolerance to the behavioral stimulant effects of caffeine. This study reassessed the role of adenosine receptors in caffeine tolerance. Separate groups of rats were given scheduled access to drinking bottles containing plain tap water or a 0.1% solution of caffeine. Daily drug intake averaged 60-75 mg/kg and resulted in complete tolerance to caffeine-induced stimulation of locomotor activity, which could not be surmounted by increasing the dose of caffeine. 5'-N-ethylcarboxamidoadenosine (0.001-1.0 mg/kg) dose dependently decreased the locomotor activity of caffeine-tolerant rats and their water-treated controls but was 8-fold more potent in the latter group. Caffeine (1.0-10 mg/kg) injected concurrently with 5-N-ethylcarboxamidoadenosine antagonized the decreases in locomotor activity comparably in both groups. Apparent pA2 values for tolerant and control rats also were comparable: 5.05 and 5.11. Thus, the adenosine-antagonist activity of caffeine was undiminished in tolerant rats. The effects of chronic caffeine administration on parameters of adenosine receptor binding and function were measured in cerebral cortex. There were no differences between brain tissue from control and caffeine-treated rats in number and affinity of adenosine binding sites or in receptor-mediated increases (A2 adenosine receptor) and decreases (A1 adenosine receptor) in cAMP accumulation. These results are consistent with theoretical arguments that changes in receptor density should not affect the potency of a competitive antagonist. Experimental evidence and theoretical considerations indicate that up-regulation of adenosine receptors is not the mechanism of tolerance to caffeine-induced stimulation of locomotor activity.
the Abstract of the study states that the upregulation of adenosine receptors (tolerance) is probably not the mechanism by which the rats become tolerant of the effects of caffeine on locomotor activity. Not only is it an older study (1991), it also doesn’t account for any of my symptoms and how they increased and decreased depending on caffeine intake. A more proper study would be one that looks into caffeine tolerant rats that are given caffeine at suboptimal doses (on most occasions) after developing tolerance.
I’ll find some of the studies I’ve read later and will post them. What’s below is what was available with a quick search (I’m packing for a Florida trip). The third link is about adenosine receptors in general, very informative but very expensive to purchase.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121101121604.htm
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scie...-brain-becomes-addicted-to-caffeine-26861037/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/adenosine-receptors
I’ll find some of the studies I’ve read later and will post them. What’s below is what was available with a quick search (I’m packing for a Florida trip). The third link is about adenosine receptors in general, very informative but very expensive to purchase.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121101121604.htm
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scie...-brain-becomes-addicted-to-caffeine-26861037/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/adenosine-receptors
Arius
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Nanonug, you can drink coffee if you want to, but I'm with bjjpapi. Caffeine just steals energy from the future and keeps you stuck in a boom-and-crash cycle.
Judee
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I just wanted to say that I stopped all caffeine for 6 weeks back in March of 2017. My fatigue levels did not improve but I quickly started to develop very severe short term memory issues that did not improve as the weeks progressed.
Now I am drinking it again because even though it doesn't improve my energy levels (nor does it seem to make them worse*), it does help me a lot with memory. Also I suspect that I have ADHD and coffee makes me feel calmer. In fact, I have a difficult time falling asleep at night if I don't drink some right before bed.
I'm not really disagreeing with anyone here I just don't think we fully understand all the biological mechanisms going on even after so many studies. On top of that everyone has such variations in their genetics; how can we know for sure that a study really does apply to everyone? I've gotten to the point where I think there is never going to be a one size fits all on any of these things ever.
Also I think it is somewhere on Wikipedia but Dr Myhill recommends a cup of black coffee and some d-ribose in the mornings to help mitochondria function.
*I will say that other stimulants do have that energy loan-shark effect on me as Dr Teitelbaum calls it. If I use them, I will feel more tired the next day for things like Sudafed.
Edit: Sorry @raghav, we conscripted your topic. I wonder if you lower the dose of the d-ribose if that might not help. d-ribose gives me tachycardia if I take too much so it may be overstimulating and then burning you out. I've also found it helps to mix it with carnitine, magnesium, and coq10, but I will mix a capsule of each one into an old rx bottle and then take a tiny scoop. If you are not on any medications that are affected by grapefruit juice and you don't have a citrus allergy you can drink a very small amount of that with it too. It seems to enhance the effect of the others but again small amounts of each. There was a grapefruit juice and coq10 thread a while back that was good.
BUT before all that, if you want to keep trying d-ribose, you could just try to reduce your dose.
Now I am drinking it again because even though it doesn't improve my energy levels (nor does it seem to make them worse*), it does help me a lot with memory. Also I suspect that I have ADHD and coffee makes me feel calmer. In fact, I have a difficult time falling asleep at night if I don't drink some right before bed.
I'm not really disagreeing with anyone here I just don't think we fully understand all the biological mechanisms going on even after so many studies. On top of that everyone has such variations in their genetics; how can we know for sure that a study really does apply to everyone? I've gotten to the point where I think there is never going to be a one size fits all on any of these things ever.
Also I think it is somewhere on Wikipedia but Dr Myhill recommends a cup of black coffee and some d-ribose in the mornings to help mitochondria function.
*I will say that other stimulants do have that energy loan-shark effect on me as Dr Teitelbaum calls it. If I use them, I will feel more tired the next day for things like Sudafed.
Edit: Sorry @raghav, we conscripted your topic. I wonder if you lower the dose of the d-ribose if that might not help. d-ribose gives me tachycardia if I take too much so it may be overstimulating and then burning you out. I've also found it helps to mix it with carnitine, magnesium, and coq10, but I will mix a capsule of each one into an old rx bottle and then take a tiny scoop. If you are not on any medications that are affected by grapefruit juice and you don't have a citrus allergy you can drink a very small amount of that with it too. It seems to enhance the effect of the others but again small amounts of each. There was a grapefruit juice and coq10 thread a while back that was good.
BUT before all that, if you want to keep trying d-ribose, you could just try to reduce your dose.
Last edited:
Gondwanaland
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It is a sugar and is probably causing hyperinsulinemia followed by reactive hypoglycemia. You could check your blood sugar levels at home with a glucometer.
pattismith
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cADPribose seems to induce release of calcium from the Sarcoplasmic Reticulum into cell cytoplasm.
This calcium is needed in the cytoplasm of cell for different functions, for example it is necessary for muscle cells to contract
Caffeine has a similar effect on calcium efflux from the SR
BUT....this caffeine stimulation effect is not effective if the cell is T3 deprived:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/t3-intracellular-calcium-and-caffeine.60206/
@Judee , also note that ADHD is a symptom in thyroid resistance, and was sometimes successfully treated with every other day T3 intake
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4709977/
This calcium is needed in the cytoplasm of cell for different functions, for example it is necessary for muscle cells to contract
Caffeine has a similar effect on calcium efflux from the SR
BUT....this caffeine stimulation effect is not effective if the cell is T3 deprived:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/t3-intracellular-calcium-and-caffeine.60206/
@Judee , also note that ADHD is a symptom in thyroid resistance, and was sometimes successfully treated with every other day T3 intake
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4709977/
I also get to be extremely sleepy after taking ribose and I am very curious what to take to counteract this.
When the dose of ribose is above certain level (2 grams 3 times a day) caffeine does not work.
So don't concentrate on caffeine as it's no use anyway...
It's a pity that I can't take ribose in the recommended doses ie. 5 grams 3 times a day.
Fortunately even at the dose of 2 grams 1 time a day I can see positive results but they appear so slowly and don't persist...
Generally, I am very sensitive to the side effect of sleepiness...
If something has this side effect just be sure that I will experience it.
Pyrrhus
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Related discussion:
Ribose: Why might it work for ME/CFS patients
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/ribose-why-might-it-work-for-me-cfs-patients.82095/
Ribose: Why might it work for ME/CFS patients
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/ribose-why-might-it-work-for-me-cfs-patients.82095/
kewia
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As already stated in @Pyrrhus's mentioned thread, D-Ribose can increase insulin and therefore reduce normal blood sugar:
D-ribose: Potential clinical applications in congestive heart failure and diabetes, and its complications (Review)
Maybe supplementing carbohydrates alongside D-Ribose relieves these symptoms.
D-ribose: Potential clinical applications in congestive heart failure and diabetes, and its complications (Review)
Maybe supplementing carbohydrates alongside D-Ribose relieves these symptoms.