Who has ruled out Lyme disease and heavy metal toxicity?

[Swim15]

I'm not trying to convince you that that is the root cause of your illness necessarily but it is something frequently overlooked and it is also a known cause of severe metabolic and immune dysregulation for many people resulting in ME/CFS symptoms.

Had I looked into it sooner, I likely would be perfectly well and functioning already. Just a nudge for people who may be at high risk and haven't found the cause of symptoms yet.

 

[max_yazhbin]

Posted about this recently but wanted to ask a different way. The more Ive learned and the more CFS patients Ive met the more people Ive seen diagnosed with these two along with mold - by far more than anything else mentioned on this forum.

In hindsight I find it weird that these aren’t talked about more and aren’t on the very top of the testing list seeing as they are much, much more common than many of the other things people here are looking for or the things on the roadmap.

Had I started with them sooner I would have saved a year or two of work ups. Luckily I found a knowledgeable doc and had all 3 nailed within a brief period of seeing her.

Curious as to who here has ruled them out? After following more docs, meeting patients, seeing disease pathology, etc I’d be a large percentage of people on here would nail down their diagnosis between these two and mold. Once they are taken care of any viral components usually go into remission

@Janet Dafoe this may be useful for whitney and anyone else suffering with ME/CFS.

I got rid of my mercury and other toxic metals with emeramide as well as other chelators. I ruled out lyme since I had it for 4 months but then found my cure of osha root and fringed sage tea. I still had ME/CFS. I recently had my gallbladder removed due to cholesistis and as it turns out I might have non-celiacs gluten sensitivity (NCGS).

Please let me know if it is useful.

 

[Learner1]

I had a toxin test, and despite my fillings and other exposures to mercury, I still didn't show elevated levels in my blood.

I never had arsenic show up on any test until I used a chelator, and, when I collapsed, my blood was immediately tested, which showed an acute level of arsenic toxicity

The point still stands, mercury is the most toxic non-radioactive element in existence and toxicity won't show up on a blood test unless you get it drawn immediately after an acute exposure.

Actually, arsenic is the most toxic element to the human body, although mercury can also cause a lot of mischief.

 

[Wayne]

I never had arsenic show up on any test until I used a chelator, and, when I collapsed, my blood was immediately tested, which showed an acute level of arsenic toxicity

Hi @Learner1 -- You might find it interesting that mainstream medicine apparently uses sodium thiosulfate (STS) as its first line of treatment in the case of arsenic poisoning. Below is a post I made a while back on STS, which seems relevant to this thread.
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No, I never did chelation. I ran across a website called DMPSBackfire.com, and it scared the bejesus out of me. I'd heard other heavy metal detox horror stories as well. I did get into the habit of doing what I considered gentle and methodical detoxing. I started doing occasional bentonite clay foot baths and baking soda and epsom salts baths.​

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I like having something in/on my body at all times to absorb/adsorb any heavy metals that get mobilized, by whatever means, so I also regularly put bentonite clay and charcoal in an apple cider vinegar fasting drink which I drink daily. In addition, I make a clay "slurry", and occasionally spread a very thin layer of it on my body after I shower. It dries in about 3-4 minutes, and I like how I feel afterwards (a little more fortified). I feel this absorbs toxins both within and outside my body.​

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Recently I started doing Sodium Thiosulfate (STS) baths, which is a great detoxifier as well. It's used in mainstream medicine for arsenic poisoning, and works by changing the chemical composition of it--not transporting it out of the body in its toxic form. It also dechlorinates water, and detoxifies a number of other heavy metals. Its sulfur component and action is somewhat similar to MSM and DMSO, both of which have reputations for breaking down and dissolving heavy metals.​

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STS is the compound that gives sulfur hot springs their rotten egg smell. Don't know if you've ever been to one of those springs--which are reputed to have great healing qualities--but you can create your own hot springs just by buying a few pounds of the STS crystals and adding a tbsp or so in your bathtub. And it's great that it dechlorinates the bathwater besides! -- Below is what I ordered and was happy with my purchase:​

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Sodium Thiosulfate "Na2S2O3 5H2O" *Water Dechlorinator* Minimum 99% purity! 10lb​

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BTW, 1 pint of this can dechlorinate 25,000 gallons of water!​

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For more information on STS:

Sodium Thiosulfate for Heavy Metal Detoxing, Cancer, and Anti-fungal Treatments

 

[Learner1]

Hi @Wayne Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I've been fortunate to work with some very well researched experts at detoxing, and have reduced symptoms by detoxing. Unfortunately, I haven't heard of sodium thiosulfate, nor have I heard of this Earth Clinic, which seems to be cagey about who they are. I am also very skeptical of anything that is being advertised with exclamation points...

Looking up sodium thiosulfate, it seems to mainly be used with hydroxy B12 in the use of cyanide poisoning where results seem to be mixed - some people died with it's use.

My experience is that the human body can only detoxify so fast and that shortcuts usually have some gotcha. There's phase I detox using CYP450 enzymes which create intermediate metabolites and 6 processes making up phase II which take the intermediate metabolites and change them before sending them to phase III, excretion through sweat, urine, or feces.

I'm not exactly sure where sodium thiosulfate helps. It's a sulfur donor, apparently, but what does it act on, with what result and what, besides, cyanide and chlorine?? does it detoxify? And, are there any other cofactors needed for this all to work?

 

[ahmo]

I spent 3 years detoxxing metals and other stuff. By the end of that, I was much more stable, CNS more relaxed. No indications I've got Lyme.

 

[GlassCannonLife]

I spent 3 years detoxxing metals and other stuff. By the end of that, I was much more stable, CNS more relaxed. No indications I've got Lyme.

What did you use for your chelation therapy?

 

[Jadzhia]

This is all fascinating reading, but I want to play Devil's Advocate for a moment. Given the Western world's diet, and the amount of amalgam fillings most people have, shouldn't there be more people with ME/CFS? Ditto with mould (sorry, UK spelling!) - in the UK, there really isn't anywhere that isn't damp, black mould is endemic in properties (very often hiding behind cupboards, etc). I recall reading the advice of one group to 'relocate to the desert' and wondered where my nearest desert would be - probably the Sahara!

Shouldn't we be questioning why some of us end up with toxicity from mercury or other heavy metals that ends in disease, whilst other people seemingly remain unscathed and live healthy, active lives? Ditto mould. (Lyme is another matter, so won't include that in my musings). Could it not be that we have some genetic susceptibility (i.e. don't detox as well) or other vitamin/mineral deficiencies have resulted in our bodies not being able to handle an excess toxic load, whether heavy metal or fungal?

I'll give an example - oxalate. It's a poison, plants are the largest source of it, seems to be protective to them in some way. Humans can eat it and will either deal with it via oxalobacter formigenes (and I think there's another bacterium that deals with it too) in the gut, or we sequester it away in places like our bones. Basically, it doesn't trouble us. Unless we develop various deficiencies, or lose our gut flora due to antibiotics, for example. Then problems arise, painful problems, as our body will no longer deal with oxalate. It may dump from where it's stored in our bodies. Nasty stuff! But it's only harmful if those other preconditions are met. Could it not be the same with mercury, or arsenic, or black mould?

Obviously there's a point beyond which even a healthy body cannot detox sufficiently on its own, if enough of a toxin is ingested, but otherwise, I have to wonder, why isn't the entire UK population sick with mould-induced disease? Why isn't my partner, who's lived in the same houses as me for 25 years, sick as I am - but he's ridiculously healthy? Same black mould exposure. As far as I am concerned, there are other factors at play here.

None of that discounts the problems some of you have had with these toxins, nor negates the treatments that have helped. But the question is, why did those substances affect you in the first place?

 

[brenda]

Is Sodium Thiosulfate "Na2S2O3 5H2O" *Water Dechlorinator* okay as aquarium grade?

 

[Wishful]

I'd look at a known highly toxic element that was placed in my body (to the tune of half a GRAM per filling)

The overall amount is meaningless. What matters is leakage rate. I probably have tens of grams of mercury in my home, but I don't worry about it because it's sealed in glass. It does seem that the published leakage rates are rising (better measuring techniques?), so at some point amalgam fillings will probably be discouraged and maybe finally banned, but the evidence of harm doesn't seem to be strong enough yet to motivate governments to act.

At my age (60), I'd probably get more mercury in my blood from removal than from leaving them, plus the stress and hassle of extra dental work. Given how lousy ME makes me feel, I'm not sure I'd even notice genuine mercury poisoning symptoms.

 

[Swim15]

The overall amount is meaningless. What matters is leakage rate. I probably have tens of grams of mercury in my home, but I don't worry about it because it's sealed in glass. It does seem that the published leakage rates are rising (better measuring techniques?), so at some point amalgam fillings will probably be discouraged and maybe finally banned, but the evidence of harm doesn't seem to be strong enough yet to motivate governments to act.

At my age (60), I'd probably get more mercury in my blood from removal than from leaving them, plus the stress and hassle of extra dental work. Given how lousy ME makes me feel, I'm not sure I'd even notice genuine mercury poisoning symptoms.

Yeah seems like a reasonable cost-benefit analysis for you. There is a plethora of evidence against amalgams but to me it seems the reason they haven't acted as decisively as they should have by now is because the it would open the FDA up to all the suits and other issues people would raise after the FDA already said they were 'safe.' Lot of institution problems there

 

[Wishful]

There is a plethora of evidence against amalgams but to me it seems the reason they haven't acted as decisively as they should have by now is because the it would open the FDA up to all the suits and other issues people would raise after the FDA already said they were 'safe.'

I don't see why that should be a concern. The FDA can only make the best decisions they can on the data available at the time. If 90% of the peer-reviewed studies showed amalgams to be safe, it's correct to rule them safe. If a definitive study comes along, with appropriate replication, showing that amalgam fillings are unsafe, the FDA can't be held accountable for judgements made before that data became available. Then again, malpractice lawsuits don't necessarily make sense, so maybe it is a valid concern. Coverups and/or bribes as in the case of tobacco companies, is a different case. Asbestos was a wonder material when introduced, and was considered safe. The amalgam filling industry isn't big enough to have that sort of influence. I expect dentists would make more money from alternative fillings, so they wouldn't try to cover up potential toxicity.

 

[Wayne]

There is a plethora of evidence against amalgams

At my age (60), I'd probably get more mercury in my blood from removal than from leaving them, plus the stress and hassle of extra dental work. Given how lousy ME makes me feel, I'm not sure I'd even notice genuine mercury poisoning symptoms.

Hi @Wishful -- Have you considered that a good portion of your ME symptoms could be a result of the mercury in your body? (I've suspected this of a lot of people on this forum). I've researched a lot on this topic over many years, and have seen testimonials over and over again how ME type symptoms have been greatly relieved by having amalgams (and/or metal crowns) removed. The author of the following well produced 6-min. video describes his journey of identifying his own amalgam poisoning symptoms, and how he eventually had them safely removed.

Best...

Mercury Poisoning & Amalgam Fillings - My Story

 

[Wishful]

Hi @Wishful -- Have you considered that a good portion of your ME symptoms could be a result of the mercury in your body?

Considered it and discounted it. My serum levels are not elevated, although some claim that that doesn't rule out elevated levels in tissue. Since developing ME, I've had additional exposure to mercury multiple times, and had two teeth with big fillings removed, and didn't notice any change in my ME symptoms. I'm pretty convinced that I could have all my filling removed and undergo major chelation therapies ... and not notice any change in my ME symptoms. I believe the core dysfunction of ME lies elsewhere.

 

[ahmo]

What did you use for your chelation therapy?

I followed Deitrich Klinghardt's protocol. I wrote a few posts on my blog, especially the first 2. Different substances to cause the elimination, and coffee enemas to get it out. I went low and slow, so it was not too uncomfortable. Klinghardt talks about toxic metals occupying the zinc receptors. When I got to a particular point, a major release, my body wanted a whole handful of 50mg zinc caps. Since then I use 50mg/day, and have not had all the noxious symptoms I had before.

 

[ChookityPop]

I never had arsenic show up on any test until I used a chelator, and, when I collapsed, my blood was immediately tested, which showed an acute level of arsenic toxicity.

Interesting. What did you use for your chelation therapy?

 

[Learner1]

How have you approached detoxing the body?


Interesting. What did you use for your chelation therapy?

I've used DMSA, DMPS, EDTA and PolyMVA at different times under a doctor's supervision with a lot of Phase II and Phase II detox support - B vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, amino acids, and curcumin.

 

[seamyb]

@Swim15 how are you getting on now?

I have known mold and candida and a mouth full of amalgams. I'm wondering can I treat the mold and candida first or do I need to treat the mercury as well?

Is it really that important to have them removed before chelating? I don't understand how chelating heavy metals in the body could possibly pull it out of the teeth.

 

[Swim15]

@Swim15 how are you getting on now?

I have known mold and candida and a mouth full of amalgams. I'm wondering can I treat the mold and candida first or do I need to treat the mercury as well?

Is it really that important to have them removed before chelating? I don't understand how chelating heavy metals in the body could possibly pull it out of the teeth.

If you have amalgam and think it’s a cause then you can treat but be careful. The only safe chelator while they are still in your mouth is emeramide/OSR. If you use water soluble D chelators then you’ll literally just pull mercury from the fillings and redistribute it in your body. Lot of people get severely injured that way.

ideally though the best thing is to get them removed by a biological dentist trained in doing so and then chelating (with a dose of OSR the day of the procedure as well if tolerable).

The Candida will feed off the heavy metals to an extent but I don’t think I’d wait to treat it. I’d go at both simultaneously - start low and slow to see how you tolerate

 

[Swim15]

I’ll probably post up an update about how Ive been doing. Been a long, long road but doing pretty well.

Was just recently diagnosed with AAI/CCI so I’ll be treating for that this month with stem cell injections.

Have ruled out Lyme being active which is awesome.

Need to redo mycotoxin labs but they’ve been dropping, Ive begun to tolerate binders much better and I expect the labs to be close to zero now.

Still poking at and chelating the mercury some but it’s on the back burner. AAI/CCI is top priority right now and I’ll keep plugging away at the mercury slowly but overall I’m setting goals at getting back to med school this year.