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Who feels BETTER for eating.

Raindrop

Senior Member
Messages
129
Location
USA
I forgot to say that I have also noticed that I feel noticeably better when I eat a FULL EGG AND
POTATOES (with a little fruit) BREAKFAST! Anyone else notice this?
It's like they say about people with the breakfast being most important, only way MORE
important having this illness - for ME. The problem is that I am too Out of IT in the AM
to make this food and also hate to make Eggs (!) I can only eat them scrambled well done;
all the rest gross me out. I would like to know if others have this same thing....where they
feel a lot better with a big, protein based breakfast.
 

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
It sounds a lot like a problem with keeping blood sugar stable, which is what I have at times.

I would recommend avoiding extreme diets, and instead eat small frequent meals. The ideal meal consists of some protein (meat preferably), some fat, some carbs, and vegetables. These are well balanced, healthy meals designed to release energy slowly. Avoid sugars and anything with high glycemic index religiously. What has high glycemic index and what doesn't isn't obvious, one must look at a table to get an idea. It's useful to be proactive and eat frequently to prevent sugar cravings.

Chromium deficiency has been linked to impaired blood sugar regulation. Chromium also appears to be directly involved in carbohydrate, fat, and protein metabolism. It might be worth trying.
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Chromium-HealthProfessional/
 
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Raindrop

Senior Member
Messages
129
Location
USA
It sounds a lot like a problem with keeping blood sugar stable, which is what I have at times.

I would recommend avoiding extreme diets, and instead eat small frequent meals. The ideal meal consists of some protein (meat preferably), some fat, some carbs, and vegetables. These are well balanced, healthy meals designed to release energy slowly. Avoid sugars and anything with high glycemic index religiously. What has high glycemic index and what doesn't isn't obvious, one must look at a table to get an idea. It's useful to be proactive and eat frequently to prevent sugar cravings.

Chromium deficiency has been linked to impaired blood sugar regulation. Chromium also appears to be directly involved in carbohydrate, fat, and protein metabolism. It might be worth trying.
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Chromium-HealthProfessional/

A.B -
Thank you so much for this. I DO eat EXACTLY as you are saying - small meals frequently and NEVEr
any "diets". Like I said, it's the full and balanced meals that seem to help the most and eating
frequently. I will look up about the Chromium!!
 

GhostGum

Senior Member
Messages
316
Location
Vic, AU
I forgot to say that I have also noticed that I feel noticeably better when I eat a FULL EGG AND
POTATOES (with a little fruit) BREAKFAST! Anyone else notice this?
It's like they say about people with the breakfast being most important, only way MORE
important having this illness - for ME. The problem is that I am too Out of IT in the AM
to make this food and also hate to make Eggs (!) I can only eat them scrambled well done;
all the rest gross me out. I would like to know if others have this same thing....where they
feel a lot better with a big, protein based breakfast.

I have one large meal for breakfast/lunch combined, before anything else I am chewing on leafy greens (kale, spinach, rocket, sprouts) and go through about a plate of them first thing, then have like 4-5 hard boiled eggs on some whole wheat bread with a little cheese and tomato, with more salad & greens on the side; amazing how well this works and easily I get through to dinner on it. Also whole heartedly agree this is the most important meal of the day, find it quite ironic our whole culture eats their main meal at the end of the day which leads into nothing but rest, when it likely should be at the start of the day; although I wonder whether there is any science to that.
 

Raindrop

Senior Member
Messages
129
Location
USA
I have one large meal for breakfast/lunch combined, before anything else I am chewing on leafy greens (kale, spinach, rocket, sprouts) and go through about a plate of them first thing, then have like 4-5 hard boiled eggs on some whole wheat bread with a little cheese and tomato, with more salad & greens on the side; amazing how well this works and easily I get through to dinner on it. Also whole heartedly agree this is the most important meal of the day, find it quite ironic our whole culture eats their main meal at the end of the day which leads into nothing but rest, when it likely should be at the start of the day; although I wonder whether there is any science to that.

My goodness!! This is DEFINITELY confirmation for eating a large first meal AM!!!
Amazing that you eat all of that - 4 or 5 eggs and all of it and that it works so well....
I would like to see if any studies on this have been done.
BTW -- Justy and others.....for a while I was trying hard to eat Eggs in the AM and noticed
that it really helped with weight loss (of just a few lbs, but that would be a lot for me to
accomplish). I think maybe we should all try big breakfasts with eggs!!!
 

Raindrop

Senior Member
Messages
129
Location
USA
Just looked up subject of weight loss and energy related to Eggs AM. There is a LOT on this!!
Here's a snippet:
Study Title:
Adults who eat eggs for breakfast lose 65 percent more weight
Study Abstract:
From press release:

New research confirms that eating eggs boosts a healthy weight loss plan

Park Ridge, Ill. (August 5, 2008) – A study published online today in the International Journal of Obesity shows that eating two eggs for breakfast, as part of a reduced-calorie diet, helps overweight adults lose more weight and feel more energetic than those who eat a bagel breakfast of equal calories. [1] This study supports previous research, published in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition, which showed that people who ate eggs for breakfast felt more satisfied and ate fewer calories at the following meal. [2]

“People have a hard time adhering to diets and our research shows that choosing eggs for breakfast can dramatically improve the success of a weight loss plan,” said Nikhil V. Dhurandhar, Ph.D., lead researcher and associate professor in the laboratory of infection and obesity at Pennington Biomedical Research Center, a campus of the Louisiana State University system. “Apparently, the increased satiety and energy due to eggs helps people better comply with a reduced-calorie diet.”
 

justy

Donate Advocate Demonstrate
Messages
5,524
Location
U.K
I have to say that I feel better for eating a 'cooked' breakfast too. However it absolutely has to include carbs. I have tried eating eggs and vegetables for breakfast or lunch -omelette with spinach in etc and no carbs and it makes me feel horribly nauseous. Perhaps I should switch back to the boiled egg and toast for breakfast that I always used to enjoy - its not hard to make.

Interestingly for me, I am one of those people who, despite being hungry and needing to keep food intake up for energy I also don't like eating too early in the day. I need to be awake for a while before I can eat (an hour or two) I think this is also linked to hypoglycaemia. I did manage to do a very good hypo diet for well over a year - which certainly helped with lots of things, however it certainly didn't help with weight - I still gained.

As for KDM - I don't know yet IF there will be any or what treatments he will offer - he bases his treatment on extensive testing to find underlying infections, allergies etc. I just thought that any treatment might help as I have heard anecdotally of patients who have been able to drop their thyroid meds after treatment with him as the thyroid was not working so well due to other issues, such as Lyme disease etc.

I think this could be possible for me as I have been diagnosed by two doctors as having very strong symptoms of hypothyroidism, despite blood levels being in normal range (very low/high normal though) I have tried two different thyroid drugs for this, but unfortunately cannot tolerate the medications they offered due to adrenal problems, which apparently need to be fixed first - unfortunately I also can't tolerate the meds to fix that so am I a limbo situation like so many here. I am hoping that if things show up on testing with KDM that they may have been over the years causing the dysregulation and that treating any infections etc may help the body to come 'back on line a bit'

All the best
Justy.
 

Raindrop

Senior Member
Messages
129
Location
USA
I have to say that I feel better for eating a 'cooked' breakfast too. However it absolutely has to include carbs. I have tried eating eggs and vegetables for breakfast or lunch -omelette with spinach in etc and no carbs and it makes me feel horribly nauseous. Perhaps I should switch back to the boiled egg and toast for breakfast that I always used to enjoy - its not hard to make.

Interestingly for me, I am one of those people who, despite being hungry and needing to keep food intake up for energy I also don't like eating too early in the day. I need to be awake for a while before I can eat (an hour or two) I think this is also linked to hypoglycaemia. I did manage to do a very good hypo diet for well over a year - which certainly helped with lots of things, however it certainly didn't help with weight - I still gained.

As for KDM - I don't know yet IF there will be any or what treatments he will offer - he bases his treatment on extensive testing to find underlying infections, allergies etc. I just thought that any treatment might help as I have heard anecdotally of patients who have been able to drop their thyroid meds after treatment with him as the thyroid was not working so well due to other issues, such as Lyme disease etc.

I think this could be possible for me as I have been diagnosed by two doctors as having very strong symptoms of hypothyroidism, despite blood levels being in normal range (very low/high normal though) I have tried two different thyroid drugs for this, but unfortunately cannot tolerate the medications they offered due to adrenal problems, which apparently need to be fixed first - unfortunately I also can't tolerate the meds to fix that so am I a limbo situation like so many here. I am hoping that if things show up on testing with KDM that they may have been over the years causing the dysregulation and that treating any infections etc may help the body to come 'back on line a bit'

All the best
Justy.

All very fascinating how different we all are!! Whereas for you, there must be a few hours before eating,
for me, I am RAVENOUS and blood sugar very low when I get up. Even at night, I will be unable to sleep
if haven't eaten before I go to bed. So anyway, I think we can say that Eggs AND Carbs are the
key AM and same is true for me. Sure wish the hypoglycemia wasn't so extreme so that
there wouldn't be so much of a weight struggle!! Sure have gained from needing to eat all the time!
Best back to you!
Raindrop
 

GhostGum

Senior Member
Messages
316
Location
Vic, AU
My goodness!! This is DEFINITELY confirmation for eating a large first meal AM!!!
Amazing that you eat all of that - 4 or 5 eggs and all of it and that it works so well....
I would like to see if any studies on this have been done.
BTW -- Justy and others.....for a while I was trying hard to eat Eggs in the AM and noticed
that it really helped with weight loss (of just a few lbs, but that would be a lot for me to
accomplish). I think maybe we should all try big breakfasts with eggs!!!

Sorry I should have mentioned somewhere in the thread that I am currently at 70-80% recovered, rested and on a good day like 90%. It has also taken me about 5 years of slowly eating better and slowly consuming more and more to get to the stage of eating all that in one meal, can also still make me tired doing it on some days. When I started out I could barely down a glass of protein shake without feeling sick and always had to go to bed after all meals but the slow refinement of finding what works for me has made a big difference in the long run, it is interesting through persistence actually how my stomach has seemed to very slowly settle over the years and be able to take on more food.

Am also physically active to a point so work off some of those extra calories and put the extra protein to good use.

Justy even though I am where I am at as well I need a good hour or two before I can eat as well, my stomach is just not in the mood first thing. Is also why I have that one big meal, because it is basically 11-12pm before I eat anything.

Also note that it can help to get some quality fibre in with your carbs, it will help them burn slower, partly why i munch on all the greens first thing.
 
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Little Bluestem

All Good Things Must Come to an End
Messages
4,930
Empirically a bunch of docs here in Aus, in the 90s I think, looked at protein in diet. The patients who ate about double the recommended intake did better, or about 1.5g per kg of body weight. Over 2.0 is dangerous though, at least in some people.
I just worked this out for myself, and get that I should eat 3.4 oz of meat, which is much less that I actually eat. I do consider poultry and fish to be meat. Even the red meat serving I eat are usually more than 3.4 oz, but I don't eat it every day.
 

Raindrop

Senior Member
Messages
129
Location
USA
So, Little Bluestem,
are you saying that 3.4oz is ALL you can eat *per DAY* or per serving? The Docs you are talking about...
were these ME/CFS drs?
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Meat is only about 20% protein iirc. I was talking about protein. For serving sizes in meat (weighed before it is cooked) multiply by five. This is the daily amount, which is ideally split over meals and even snacks. Any dairy, egg white, tofu or similar needs to be taken into account in protein intake as well. (Cooked meat or some cheeses can be over 40% protein by weight.)

Let us use round numbers, which are then easily adjusted. For a heavy person of 100kg you would require 150g of protein per day, which translates to 750g of meat. Now that is based on lean body weight, so it would be a body builder in all likelihood. So if you weigh 50kg, then the meat intake would be 375g, or about 13 ounces. Decrease this if you are eating dairy, eggs etc.

Keep in mind this was just doctors putting patients on different diets and seeing how the patient felt. This needs a proper research study, for which there is no funding.

Compare this to the general population, in which estimates of protein requirements are between 0.8 to 1.0 g of protein per kg of body weight. Do keep in mind though this is typically based on lean body weight, so does not go up much in overweight people. So a typical 50kg of lean weight, or about 110 lbs, would actually be nearly 60kg in a normal healthy female's actual weight.

I suspect, but do not know for sure, that if someone is under weight you should calculate for the desired weight.
 
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Little Bluestem

All Good Things Must Come to an End
Messages
4,930
The brain fog was in full force last night, so I was reading 'protein' as 'meat'. :bang-head: So 3.4 oz of protein would be 17 oz of meat - about a pound. I don't eat that much meat, but do eat eggs and dairy. I wasn't using lean weight to calculate it though. :redface:
 

ukxmrv

Senior Member
Messages
4,413
Location
London
I find that what I need to eat different things for maximum functioning and physical comfort changes during the day.

As an example in the morning when my cortisol is low and my functioning is at it's worst I can't get a cooked breakfast. If I do I feel slower and with less energy than when I first wake up. My mornings are bad with low BP, fainting, shaking, black spots in front of my eyes, nausea and vomiting.

It's best for me to stick to something light and carbohydrate then.

Eating fruit for breakfast gives me no energy, yoghurt the same and my pre-ME breakfast of either porridge or muesli makes my stomach problem worse. Also none of these foods work on the so-called "slow release of energy" that I read about. It's stopped working that way.

As the day progresses that's when I can eat a cooked lunch or a cooked dinner with meat, veges, small carbs etc. I get the best functioning then out of larger, mixed meals of this type. A series of small meals doesn't work. There seems to be a "tipping point" for generating energy.

Having small snacks of things like nuts, fruit etc makes my stomach problems flare up. They also don't give me any energy.

I'm guessing that something specific is happening here to me (i.e. the minimum "meal quantity level" to obtain some energy and strength).
 
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Little Bluestem

All Good Things Must Come to an End
Messages
4,930
My weight has been slowly creeping up. :eek: Reducing calories just leaves me with even less energy. :sleep: Our bodies seem to prefer to convert calories to fat rather than energy. :grumpy: Theoretically, I should be able to find that 'just right' amount of calories that my body would convert to energy, but so far I have not had any luck.
 

justy

Donate Advocate Demonstrate
Messages
5,524
Location
U.K
My weight has been slowly creeping up. :eek: Reducing calories just leaves me with even less energy. :sleep: Our bodies seem to prefer to convert calories to fat rather than energy. :grumpy: Theoretically, I should be able to find that 'just right' amount of calories that my body would convert to energy, but so far I have not had any luck.

Yes you are absolutely right - my experience exactly.

It would be so interesting to hear from the group who are too thin and have low appetite - I wonder if we have other symptoms that are different as well or if we are different subsets? I know this is totally anecdotal but I have also noticed that men with M.E seem to be thinner and some women tend to gain weight - hormone differences?
 

rosie26

Senior Member
Messages
2,446
Location
NZ
I'm not one of the thin group, I am just right group lol :D :nervous: according to my family and friends. And it is true I am the right weight for my height. Before ME I carried more weight, around the 65kg mark but since ME I haven't been able to keep weight on over 60kg.

So it seems I am the opposite to those who are putting on weight and can't lose it. I can't put on weight and keep it over 60kg. I am not bothered by it as I am the right weight and not thin. But I find it unusual as I never had a problem putting on weight before ME. I also only get the unable to eat when in a very severe deterioration.
 

Legendrew

Senior Member
Messages
541
Location
UK
Yes you are absolutely right - my experience exactly.

It would be so interesting to hear from the group who are too thin and have low appetite - I wonder if we have other symptoms that are different as well or if we are different subsets? I know this is totally anecdotal but I have also noticed that men with M.E seem to be thinner and some women tend to gain weight - hormone differences?

I suffer with a similar problem, that being an increased appetite and weight gain although my weight seems to have stabilized now, I'm a guy though so this isn't a purely sex based phenomenon, I suspect that weight gain or loss is a consequence of the other symptoms. I'm in the process of trying to cut down on too many treats to hopefully stabilize my weight at a slightly lower weight but it's proving quite difficult. Whenever I flare up however I get quite bad nausea which means I lose my appetite, in fact when I first became ill I lost a stone over the course of a week or two because of the severity of the nausea, now the problem has reversed.
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,875
i need HUGE amounts of food since i got sick. but its better now. i used to need 6 meals a day!
 

justy

Donate Advocate Demonstrate
Messages
5,524
Location
U.K
I suffer with a similar problem, that being an increased appetite and weight gain although my weight seems to have stabilized now, I'm a guy though so this isn't a purely sex based phenomenon, I suspect that weight gain or loss is a consequence of the other symptoms. I'm in the process of trying to cut down on too many treats to hopefully stabilize my weight at a slightly lower weight but it's proving quite difficult. Whenever I flare up however I get quite bad nausea which means I lose my appetite, in fact when I first became ill I lost a stone over the course of a week or two because of the severity of the nausea, now the problem has reversed.

I also lost a large amount of weight very quickly when I first relapsed 6 years ago. Mine was mainly caused by huge amounts of anxiety and adrenaline - at that point I was eating a lot and increased my protein to try and stop losing weight, but it made no difference. Now the problem is exactly the opposite.

We are weird aren't we?