What’s Up With Ivermectin?

[antares4141]

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeli...XV9YCDc_ujYhfArt4AzUCmLtvf30o-dsm4xmEnCDoFtGk

Efficacy and Safety of Ivermectin for Treatment and prophylaxis of COVID-19 Pandemic
https://www.researchsquare.com/arti...MmVZKxD3SlZlmDju_5Xy7joHRfrLcOHFzmUvJ-mCRcrt0

Start listening around 15 minutes in:
TWiV 599: Coronavirus update
https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-599/

 

[jaybee00]

I hear this is being prescribed for MECFS now.....

 

[Mary]

I hear this is being prescribed for MECFS now.....

Do you have a source for this or remember where you heard about it?

I just saw a youtube video the other day of Dr. Pierre Kory testifying before the senate about the efficacy of ivermectin for COVID: (515) "I CAN'T KEEP DOING THIS": Doctor pleads for review of data during COVID-19 Senate hearing - YouTube

 

[jaybee00]

Do you have a source for this or remember where you heard about it?

Yes. My MECFS physician told me about it today.

 

[antares4141]

I hear this is being prescribed for MECFS now.....

I've been interested in it for some time because of how safe it is and that it kills a lot of parasites. Seeing 21'st century technology isn't capable or willing of finding simple parasites in 800,000 to 2,000,000 cfs suffers. Or at least making a reasonable effort to rule it out. My thought is how much damage could it do to take a few shots in the dark.

Also if it inhibits covid somehow and CFS has a viral origin, well maybe it can treat, possibly cure CFS?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

No prescription required in Mexico.

 

[leokitten]

It’s in the same camp that hydroxychloroquine was in earlier this year, no efficacy data just anecodotal reports. I hope they are doing some kind of trials on it to get more data, because once they did that for hydroxychloroquine it was a dud so I hope this doc is right and there is real efficacy.

 

[antares4141]

No prescription required in Mexico.

really tempting since I'm only about 100 miles from Juarez. I still haven't been able to figure out from their jargon what dose to use.

 

[Judee]

I've seen it mentioned in the Lyme community as well. Some people seem to think antiparasite medicine also work against the Lyme bacteria.

 

[antares4141]

I've seen it mentioned in the Lyme community as well. Some people seem to think antiparasite medicine also work against the Lyme bacteria.

I am curious and desperate. Really really tired of being sick after 23 years.

 

[Judee]

I am curious and desperate. Really really tired of being sick after 23 years.

This guy talks about it on his website: https://lymebook.com/ivermectin-albendazole-diethylcarbamazine-alinia-mimosa-pudica.htm
Of course he's trying to sell a book. I went to Amazon and found one of his books on Prime and started to read it for free. Not sure I agree with him on some things and he is very long winded so it's a hard read that way but you could just google "ivermectin" or "mebendazole" or "albendazole" for Lyme and get some info that way.

There are also a couple threads I think on PR regarding mebendazole. I've used it and did feel better but the third cycle through I started to get very bad floaters in my eye that happened after two doses and that scared me enough to stop using it.

Have you had any testing for Lyme?

Also I was on antibiotics but I am now on Cat's Claw, Japanese Knotweed, and Andrographis and they are working just as well, if not slightly better, than the antibiotics. Those are suggestions by Stephen Buhner on his site. Here:http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/

I always thought my ME/CFS was caused by Mono at 12 years of age but then I remembered my 10th year, I had 4 symptoms pop up in one year that I think point to being bitten by something--a rash, a huge sore on my chin not from an injury, knuckle size swollen lymph nodes and horrible whole leg cramps.

My Lyme test a couple years back was technically negative according to CDC but I had one band positive and that was P41. I joined 3 Lyme groups on FB and have had several people tell me that many of them only have P41 and that LLMD (Lyme Literate MDs) consider that indicative of an infection.

Since I have been treating it as such, I am having some small improvement in my condition. Yes, it is small but more than anything else I've tried (except oxymatrine & selenium) so far.

You might also be interested in Dr Garth Nicolson's information on Mycoplasma infections. He has some videos on YT about them.

 

[antares4141]

Thanks for sharing your experience Judee.

I have ordered the standard lyme test though conventional PCP. 2 times I think maybe once in 2012 and another in 2017. Both negative.

I have always leaned heavy on some type of suppressed immune system issue that leaves me more vulnerable to some type of common virus like Epstein bar, or herpes. I often have sores on my gums, the roof of my mouth, on my lips. Burning sensations 2 or three times a year that migrate around my head, scalp, ears, eyes, and all the way down to my throat. Super sensitive to foods, mold, chemicals. Wicked PEM. Sleep issues, overwhelming fatigue every day, poor coordination, brain fog, brain burn, flue like symptoms

I've looked into Nicolson a couple of times. I think he treats with antibiotics for mycoplasma. I have done a couple of courses of antibiotics about 5 years ago. Seemed to help once, other time not so much..

 

[Bronc]

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeli...XV9YCDc_ujYhfArt4AzUCmLtvf30o-dsm4xmEnCDoFtGk

Efficacy and Safety of Ivermectin for Treatment and prophylaxis of COVID-19 Pandemic
https://www.researchsquare.com/arti...MmVZKxD3SlZlmDju_5Xy7joHRfrLcOHFzmUvJ-mCRcrt0

Start listening around 15 minutes in:
TWiV 599: Coronavirus update
https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-599/

Please find below videos by Professor Paul Marik of Eastern Virginia Medical School where he summarises the large body of evidence proving the efficacy of Ivermectin for treating Covid-19 patients. Professor Marik is using the MATH+ protocol which now includes Ivermectin to treat patients. He is having a very high success rate in preventing mortality amongst his patients.

 

[Hipsman]

So what's the Ivermectin protocol for COVID?

Efficacy and Safety of Ivermectin for Treatment and prophylaxis of COVID-19 Pandemic
https://www.researchsquare.com/arti...MmVZKxD3SlZlmDju_5Xy7joHRfrLcOHFzmUvJ-mCRcrt0

looks like they used "Ivermectin 400mcg / kg", so 28mg a day if you weigh 70kg.

Please find below videos by Professor Paul Marik of Eastern Virginia Medical School where he summarises the large body of evidence proving the efficacy of Ivermectin for treating Covid-19 patients. Professor Marik is using the MATH+ protocol which now includes Ivermectin to treat patients. He is having a very high success rate in preventing mortality amongst his patients.

What Ivermectin dosing is he using?

Seems like a good deal to buy 30 tabs here, that will get you 1 tab x2 daily for 15 days protocol. Or 7 day covid protocol and use the rest for ME/CFS treatment trial...
@Hip, I'm curious to know what do you think about Ivermectin.

 

[Bronc]

Thank you for the link to buy Ivermectin. I will check it out. The FDA admits that Ivermectin has a very high safety profile.
Sadly, the science over Covid-19 and Sars-Cov2 has been very politicized. I have followed very closely the work of Professor Marik and his MATH+ colleagues very closely since March. They are very distinguished academics and clinicians who are totally apolitical. The evidence they present for Ivermectin seems compelling, especially the efficacy of Ivermectin across South /Central America.

Please find the Ivermectin treatment protocol recommended by Professor Marik and his colleagues below.
The dosing is weight dependent.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-...CCC-I-MASK-Protocol-v6-2020-12-09-ENGLISH.pdf


On the website below I came across a comment by a woman who says that Ivermectin is really helping with her Long Hauler symptoms:
https://covid.us.org/2020/09/21/a-solution-for-longhaulers-is-coming-soon/


Catia
September 26, 2020 at 2:40 am
I’m the longhauler you are referring to in your last paragraph, & want to be very clear to others: Ivermectin *is* working for me. It removes ALL of my covid related symptoms within a few hours. I take 1 dose per week, on Saturdays. About day 5 or 6 after(meaning by Thurs/Fri), I do feel some symptoms creeping back in-it’s like clockwork every week–BUT- they are less & less severe with each week.
I am 6 or 7 weeks on IVM now, Full disclosure: I am in no way vitamin D deficient, my Dr has me on D3, I am religious about my D3. I get regular bloodwork to monitor. I do have a prexisting/comorbidity of Adrenal Insufficiency and am steroid dependent in order to live, as I am incapable of mounting a stress response to illness because I cannot produce cortisol. I’d say the IVM has taken me from about 50% recovered to 80-90% recovered, as long as I take it weekly.
The symptoms that come back for me are the high heart rate, for no reason, low grade fever spikes of 1-2 degrees, & brain fog/cognitive issues, again, about days 5-6. I am considering shortening the duration between doses, or possibly taking doxycycline. Every week I hope the symptoms won’t return, & while they are so much less each time, it accelerates rapidly without the IVM.

 

[Hip]

@Hip, I'm curious to know what do you think about Ivermectin.

A pharmacokinetic calculation I did showed that in order to get antiviral effects from ivermectin in vivo, you would have to take an incredibly large dose of around 30 grams, which might be toxic†. Ivermectin normally comes in 3 mg tablets, and at these normal doses you will not get any appreciable antiviral effect.

The article linked to in the first post performs a similar calculation and comes to the same conclusion. And so does this study.

So I don't think ivermectin will have any antiviral effect against coronavirus, at all normal doses.

However, it is possible some immunomodulatory effects of ivermectin could be of benefit for COVID.



† The LD50 of ivermectin for dogs is 80 mg/kg, 1 suggesting that a lethal dose for humans will be around 3 grams.

 

[Learner1]

I have always leaned heavy on some type of suppressed immune system issue that leaves me more vulnerable to some type of common virus like Epstein bar, or herpes. I often have sores on my gums, the roof of my mouth, on my lips. Burning sensations 2 or three times a year that migrate around my head, scalp, ears, eyes, and all the way down to my throat. Super sensitive to foods, mold, chemicals. Wicked PEM. Sleep issues, overwhelming fatigue every day, poor coordination, brain fog, brain burn, flue like symptoms

Not to derail this thread, as the topics in here are discussed elsewhere. Sores in the places you mention may relate to herpes family viruses - would be worthwhile to test. Immunodeficiency can be tested for - NK cell function, complements, Immunoglobulins with subclasses. Mold myctoxins can be tested for and treated. And all of these issues can lead to deficiencies in immune system helping nutrients, antioxidants, B vitamins, minerals and even amino acids. Working on these issues can be greatly helpful and is discussed in detail on many other threads.

Best wishes!

Now, more on ivermectin?😃

 

[Hipsman]

However, it is possible some immunomodulatory effects of ivermectin could be of benefit for COVID.

I think the Ivermectin protocol by Professor Paul Marik (linked just above your post) would suggest so too as the dosing is inconsistently spread out, while an antiviral protocol would probably be much more consistent (e.g every day dosing)

 

[Hip]

I think the Ivermectin protocol by Professor Paul Marik (linked just above your post) would suggest so too as the dosing is inconsistently spread out, while an antiviral protocol would probably be much more consistent (e.g every day dosing)

Here is one old paper from 1991 which found that in mice, ivermectin stimulates the production of antibodies, via a mechanism involving T-cells.

Given that one recent provisional study suggests coronavirus may induce autoantibodies which actually attack the B-cells and T-cells of the immune system (B-cells are responsible for creating antibodies), and this has made some people speculate this attack could explain why the immune system struggles to control coronavirus in some patients, it makes sense that stimulating antibody production could be helpful in COVID.

 

[Bronc]

A pharmacokinetic calculation I did showed that in order to get antiviral effects from ivermectin in vivo, you would have to take an incredibly large dose of around 30 grams, which might be toxic†. Ivermectin normally comes in 3 mg tablets, and at these normal doses you will not get any appreciable antiviral effect.

The article linked to in the first post performs a similar calculation and comes to the same conclusion. And so does this study.

So I don't think ivermectin will have any antiviral effect against coronavirus, at all normal doses.

However, it is possible some immunomodulatory effects of ivermectin could be of benefit for COVID.



† The LD50 of ivermectin for dogs is 80 mg/kg, 1 suggesting that a lethal dose for humans will be around 3 grams.

There are over 2 dozen studies this year showing the potent anti viral properties of Ivermectin. The link below lists many of the clinical trials and articles on Ivermectin:
https://covid.us.org/ivermectin/

Dr.Pierre Kory, who in recent testimony to the US Senate made a powerful case for the efficacy of Ivermectin to treat Covid-19 patients, together with Professor Marik have written a manuscript that presents the case for Ivermectin as a powerful anti viral. At the Senate hearing Dr.Kory called on NIH to review the data in their paper. The Ivermectin paper is below:

Review of the Emerging Evidence Demonstrating the Efficacy of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-...the-prophylaxis-and-treatment-of-COVID-19.pdf

Dr.Kory and Professor Marik have been using the MATH+ Protocol, which now incorporates Ivermectin, very successfully to treat patients since March. Their use of cheap, FDA approved repurposed drugs has saved many lives. It gives great weight to their claims about Ivermectin being a powerful anti viral.

See the following evidence of the mortality outcomes of the hospitals using the MATH+ Protocol:

"Mortality outcomes in COVID-19 among MATH+ hospitals
The MATH+ protocol reviewed above has been implemented in the treatment of COVID-19 patients at two hospitals in the United States; United Memorial Hospital in Houston, Texas (J.V) and Norfolk General Hospital in Norfolk, Virginia (P.E.M). MATH+ was systematically provided upon admission to the hospital at United Memorial while at Norfolk General, the protocol was administered upon admission to the ICU. Available hospital outcome data for COVID-19 patients treated at these two hospitals as of July 20, 2020, are provided in Table 1, including comparison to the published hospital mortality rates from multiple COVID-19 publications across the United States and world. The average hospital mortality at these two centers as of July 15, 2020, in over 300 patients treated was 5.1 %, which represents more than a 75 % absolute risk reduction in mortality compared to the average published hospital mortality of 22.9 % among COVID-19 patients in multiple countries across the world. Although this is a limited comparison due to a lack of data regarding severity of illness and treatments provided, the low reported mortality at the two centers within a considerable sample size of patients provide supportive clinical evidence for the physiologic rationale and efficacy of the MATH+ treatment protocol. One limitation with this comparison is that the comparative studies were all published before the RECOVERY trial identified the mortality improvements with corticosteroid use, and thus, with more widespread use of steroids the reported mortality from other centers may decrease over time. However, it should be noted that in the RECOVERY trial, even in the patients who benefited from corticosteroids such as those on oxygen or who required mechanical ventilation, the 28-day mortality rates were still between 20–30 % respectively, while the patients who were not on oxygen had mortality rates between 10–20 % depending on whether corticosteroids were used, all higher than the centers using MATH+.''

The clinical rationale for the MATH+ Protocol has been published and peer reviewed in the Journal of Intensive Care Medicine:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-...ournal-of-Intensive-Care-Medicine-Dec2020.pdf