What Stimulates IGF-1 other than Growth Hormone?

[Ema]

I'm wondering if anyone knows things *other* than GH that can stimulate IGF-1?

In a normal situation, a high level of GH would stimulate a high level of IGF-1 which would then follow a negative feedback loop and consequently decrease GH production. But if something else was stimulating the high IGF-1, then the GH level could remain low despite the high IGF-1. In this case, taking GH or a synthetic GHRH might have some benefit even with a high IGF-1.

Any ideas what that *something* might be?

It looks like cytokines may have some involvement too.

However, changes in GH/IGF-1 axis bioactivity deserve special attention since this axis is involved in the integration of endocrine, immune, and nutritional pathways. IGF-1 is an anabolic hormone that plays an active role in the maintenance of muscle mass and strength, in preventing apoptosis and in the protection from oxidative stress [8]. Both the secretion and the biological actions of IGF-1 are also modulated by the main pro-inflammatory cytokines [9]. Moreover, IGF-1 has been shown as a sensitive marker of nutritional status [10], especially in the elderly. In this context, IGF-1, due to its unique characteristics, may be assumed as an ideal cross-road of nutritional, hormonal, and inflammatory pathways to frailty.

 

[heapsreal]

il6 and tnf i think worsen sleep, dhea is suppose to counteract this???

I think our low gh/igf comes down to our poor sleep. xyrem is suppose to improve sleep quality and increase gh.
I have spoken to a couple of cfsers who used gh for 12months and it seemed to fix their sleep issues although no cure for cfs.

Maybe some type of anti-inflammatory drug that effects il6 could work, other then dhea which i dont think is working well enough for me and my sleep, im not really sure what other options are out there for us. there are the tnf blockers etc but getting them prescribed would be the hardest part.

ALso carbs can interfer with gh production, so some reduce the carbs at night.

The ghrh look good but its hard to tell how effective they are as most of the info on there use is from bodybuilders who only judge the effects on muscle growth and fat loss, theres a few that say it improved their sleep but then again they dont have the sleep issues we have. ghrp2 looks the best option for me as it doesnt stimulate the appetitte like ghrp6.

This is interesting thread and the stuff i have been looking into for awhile.

 

[Ema]

So, @heapsreal, would you go straight for the GH supplementation itself if you were going to try it or give the GHRH a shot first? Do you think that there is anything to the claim that GHRH is safer somehow?

Do you think an ITT (gulp) or an arginine stim test would reveal a growth hormone deficiency in the presence of high IGF-1?

I have looked at my usual suspects (adenosine and prolactin) but can't find a connection so far. I think Il-6 is a good contender though.

What TNF blockers are you looking at?

I am going to try modafinil. I should have it in a few days. I'm excited and hope it works better than the Dexedrine did for me.

 

[heapsreal]

Enbrel is a tnf blocker used in autoimmune diseases also maybe methotrexate but they also have there side effects too.

I have only read that igf testing is used to measure gh defiency as testing gh directly can be inaccurate. So I dont know if one can have high igf and low gh. I also think its igf that does all the good things not necessarily gh but im not certain of that.

If I had the money I would go gh over peptides as gh is expensive. Personally I would go xyrem first but thats even more costly then gh. In reality if I try something it would be peptides purely for cost.
I think the arginine stim test was used before they could test igf. I would think igf would be more accurate.

I think fixing sleep is the key to gh for us how this is done??? There are so many things to look at like cortisol cycle, circadian rhythm. Cytokines. Hormones maybe receptor sensitivity. Leptin. Can go after them individually or more then likely its a combination.

I also think that maybe the initial infection that started cfs may have damaged the hypothalamus and this causes all these dysfunctions?

My sleep still isnt perfect but I think trying to fix hormones has helped.

 

[Ema]

So it looks like an oral glucose tolerance test can diagnose high GH...

Oral Glucose Tolerance Test with Measurement of GH Suppression (OGTT GH)

If patients suspected of having acromegaly do not have clearly elevated IGF-1 levels, then OGTT GH testing may provide additional diagnostic benefit, especially in adolescent patients.2,3 Normally, glucose suppresses insulin, which in turn suppresses GH.

However, GH-producing tumors are not suppressed by insulin. OGTT GH is performed by giving 75 g of glucose orally and sampling for glucose and GH levels at 0, 30, 60, 90, and 120 minutes after administration of glucose.2

I guess you wouldn't be able to say GH was low based on this, but at least you could see if it was high from some reason other than IGF-1?

Or would this not work very well in our population since many of us have some degree of metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance?

 

[adreno]

DHEA increases IGF-1.

 

[Ema]

DHEA increases IGF-1.

Does DHEA have any effect on GH directly?

My IGF-1 is high but my DHEA is super low. So something is clearly not working properly in this system for me.

 

[adreno]

Does DHEA have any effect on GH directly?

I don't think so.

 

[Ema]

What do you know?

GH is a cytokine that regulates immune function.

Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2002 Feb 25;188(1-2):1-7.
Growth hormone can act as a cytokine controlling survival and proliferation of immune cells: new insights into signaling pathways.
Jeay S, Sonenshein GE, Postel-Vinay MC, Kelly PA, Baixeras E.
Author information

Abstract
While growth hormone (GH) is classically defined as a peptide hormone, recent evidence supports a role for GH acting as a cytokine in the immune system under conditions of stress, counteracting immunosuppression by glucocorticoids. Lymphoid cells express the GH receptor, which belongs to the cytokine receptor superfamily, and GH can be produced by immune tissues, suggesting an autocrine/paracrine mode of action of GH. GH can act as a cytokine, promoting cell cycle progression of lymphoid cells and preventing apoptosis. These effects of GH were shown to be mainly mediated by the PI-3 kinase/Akt pathway and the transcription factor NF-kappaB. Expression of several cell cycle mediators, as well as Bcl-2, c-Myc and cyclin proteins were found to be regulated by GH. Survival of immune cells under conditions of stress was promoted by NF-kappaB. Thus, GH acts not only as a hormone but also as a cytokine, playing a potentially important role in immune system cells. Lastly, in this mini-review, we will discuss whether the discovery of these molecules in GH signaling pathways offers new insights into additional mechanisms of action whereby GH regulates apoptosis, proliferation and neoplastic transformation of cells of the immune system.

 

[Ema]

A little specific...but it looks like high ACTH might also suppress GH release.

Suppressive action of ACTH on growth hormone secretion in patients with infantile spasms.
Izumi T, Imaizumi C, Ashida E, Ochiai T, Wang PJ, Fukuyama Y.
Abstract
The changes in insulin-induced growth hormone secretion and in serum cortisol level were studied in 3 cases of West syndrome. The ACTH therapy consisted of an eight weeks course with gradual tapering every two weeks. Daily administration of 12.5 or 25.0 micrograms per kg ACTH for two weeks suppressed an insulin-induced rise in serum GH. The patients who showed sharply suppressed responses as to serum GH had been exposed to high cortisol levels of over 50 micrograms per dl serum. When they were examined before starting the therapy and 72 or 96 hours after the last ACTH injection, all the subjects showed a normal rise in the level of serum GH. The clinical implications of the findings were discussed in terms of the possible adverse effect on the developing brain.

PMID:
3008584
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Leopardtail]

So it looks like an oral glucose tolerance test can diagnose high GH...



I guess you wouldn't be able to say GH was low based on this, but at least you could see if it was high from some reason other than IGF-1?

Or would this not work very well in our population since many of us have some degree of metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance?

A GTT definitely would not give reliable indication of GH over production. There are several issues created by ME that can raise it including: Insulin resistance, elevated Cortisol, elevated Epinephrine, simple infection.

 

[Hip]

You can buy IGF-1 as a supplement called deer velvet antler. The "velvet" coat that grows on the antlers of deer is naturally high in IGF-1. Usually these velvet antler IGF-1 supplement come in the form of a sublingual spray, or sublingual drops.

I found that a small dose of around 200 to 300 nanograms of IGF-1 just before bed makes you sleep like baby — ie, it creates a nice deep sleep.

I tried several manufactures of velvet deer antler IGF-1, and I found the best and the strongest is the Nutronics Labs brand.

Here are the details of some of the Nutronics Labs IGF-1 products, and also details of the NOW Foods IGF-1 product for comparison:

Nutronics Labs IGF-1 PLUS Starter

Total IGF-1 in bottle = 3,000 ng
Servings per bottle = 90 servings (Serving = 2 sprays)
IGF-1 dose per serving = 33 ng
Cost = $20
​

Nutronics Labs IGF-1 PLUS Ultra

Total IGF-1 in bottle = 10,000 ng
Servings per bottle = 90 servings (Serving = 2 sprays)
IGF-1 dose per serving = 111 ng
Cost = $60
​

Nutronics Labs IGF-1 PLUS Maximum

Total IGF-1 in bottle = 100,000 ng
Servings per bottle = 60 servings (Serving = 12 drops)
IGF-1 dose per serving = 1666 ng
Cost = $120​

NOW Foods IGF-1+ Liposomal Spray

Total IGF-1 in bottle = 2,558 ng
Servings per bottle = 93 servings (Serving = 2 sprays)
IGF-1 dose per serving = 27.5 ng
Cost = $15
​

Note that ng = nanograms
Note 1,000 ng = 1 microgram

At a dose of around 200 to 300 ng of IGF-1, taken just before bed, I found I slept more profoundly, and I found this IGF-1 raised my libido very noticeably.

However, at higher daily doses of IGF-1 around 800 ng or more, I started to feel anger and aggression side effects. So I suggest if you are going to try IGF-1 supplementation, keep to doses of 300 ng or lower.

Note that these IGF-1 sprays/drops are designed be taken sublingually, but I found they work just as well, if not better, when I simply rubbed these products into my skin (transdermal application).

 

[Hip]

@Ema
I just realized that you are not in fact looking to raise your IGF-1, as it is high already, but rather are looking to raise growth hormone.

 

[awkwardlymodern]

Hedgehog! The little hedgehogs that live in your liver produce IGF-1, independently of GH stimulation.

No, seriously, I'm not trolling, the scientists just like to give odd names to new molecules these days, and a class of signaling molecules in the liver include Sonic hedgehog, Indian hedgehog and Desert hedgehog, and yes they all generate IGF-1 outside of the GH pathway.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24548465

 

[xks201]

testosterone definitely does. some other hormones might but I would have to look it up.

 

[drob31]

The body building world has this down to a science, and they don't all use IGF-1 or HGH directly.

Allot use peptides which stiumulate it directly.

Look up CJC-1295 (without DAC)

They sell it on peptide sites and it's legal for...research purposes.