What diet do you follow?

[Frunobulax]

Hi~ I suggest you listen to some videos by Dr. Kim Williams and Brenda Davis. These are two of my favorite speakers. Dr. Kim Williams is past president of the American College of Cardiology and current chief of cardiology at Rush University Medical Center. He knows his stuff about diet and the cardiovascular system. Everything he says is backed up by research studies and of course he sees the results in his medical practice. Everything Brenda Davis says is also backed up by research and her own experience (she is a dietitian). Here is a video featuring Dr. Williams. Here is a video featuring Brenda Davis. I hope you enjoy watching the videos and come to realize that plant based diets are indeed healthy....better for us, better for the environment and of course, better for the animals.

I will check them out, thanks. I should make clear that I consider a "real food" (fresh ingredients, no processed food) veggie diet to be more healthy than the standard american diet, hands down. However, we react differently to the various antinutrients. Some people may live happily and grow old with a veggie diet, others won't because of genetic differences or insulin resistance.

I live and preach a ketogenic diet which can easily be vegetarian, with a lot of salad, vegetables, olive oil, coconut oil and nuts. (Vegan is difficult in the long run though. You can do it for years, but eventually you'll end up short of some amino acids that are lacking in plants. But some protein from eggs and dairy will fix this.) My beef (no pun intended) is not with the vegetable food, but with carbs (especially processed carbs), antinutrients like lectins and unhealthy oils like linoleic acid (which is carcinogenic, and the staple ingredient in most vegetable oils). These sensitivities are highly individual and often manifest itself only after a long time, so they are hard to detect and it's extremely important to have a personalized diet. Me, I do eat a lot of vegetables, nuts and salad, but nothing that comes from grains or soy, especially no omega-6 oil.

I have personally observed how a ketogenic diet can improve life dramatically, for me and for other ME/CFS patients (and I have tried a lot of different diets before I finally went keto, including gluten free veggie). I have yet to see similar improvements from people on high-carb veggie diets. (Eric Westman gives a good rundown of which diseases can be efficiently treated with a keto diet.) So I'm strongly biased here, and it makes me sad to realize that only few ME/CFS patients have tried to go keto (long and strict enough to see if it works). But then, we're all different and there is no one way that works for everybody. And at least I'll admit that I'm biased

 

[Frunobulax]

Love your responses.
GP was obsessed I had diabetes and high cholesterol even though I had a normal hba1c every time. I was also not overweight at 8 stone 10lbs and 5ft tall.

He tested the hba1c (3x a year) it was always 34, which was perfect

34 (which is 5.2% I believe) is perfect. I don't think you need to worry about diabetes at all.

And you most definately shouldn't worry about cholesterol. There are many subtypes of cholesterol, HDL is good in any case and the higher the better. LDL in general is good too, but one subtype is bad (very dense LDL/oxidized LDL), and the bad cholesterol is driven by high glucose. That is, if your HbA1C is good and your HDL-cholesterol is high, then your bad cholesterol is low. (Even if you have high LDL, it will be the good type.)

If you want to dive deeper into cholesterol, Ivor Cummings explains it really well (it's a long video though and a bit technical at times). But in short: If your HDL is high then don't worry about the remaining cholesterol values.

@Jemima37
Oh, what a terrible time you've had with scary testing! So sorry. I say enjoy the chocolate and don't worry.

But make it sugar free chocolate I make it myself, it's addictive
Recipe: 100g of organic cacao butter. 15g safflower lecithin. 15g inulin. 25g cacao powder (pure cacao no sugar, deoiled). 20g dried milk powder. A pinch of salt. Some sweetener of your choice (like monkfruit or stevia). Some vanilla extract. (You can replace the cocoa with more milk powder for white chocolate, or replace the milk powder with cocoa if you prefer dark chocolate.)

Slowly melt the cocoa butter. Add all the other ingredients and mix well. Add whatever you like in your chocolade (nuts, coconut, peanut butter, dried fruit, chili, you name it, my personal favorite is ground macadamia nuts which is like Reese's, only better). Put it in a chocolate form or something else so that it's spread out (a silicone form is better than a rigid one because you can extract the chocolate in one piece), refrigerate, enjoy.

 

[wabi-sabi]

And hey, chocolate therapy may even be research based! Didn't we always know more chocolate is the answer?

Sathyapalan, T., Beckett, S., Rigby, A. S., Mellor, D. D., & Atkin, S. L. (2010). High cocoa polyphenol rich chocolate may reduce the burden of the symptoms in chronic fatigue syndrome. Nutrition journal, 9, 55. doi:10.1186/1475-2891-9-55

 

[Jemima37]

34 (which is 5.2% I believe) is perfect. I don't think you need to worry about diabetes at all.

And you most definately shouldn't worry about cholesterol. There are many subtypes of cholesterol, HDL is good in any case and the higher the better. LDL in general is good too, but one subtype is bad (very dense LDL/oxidized LDL), and the bad cholesterol is driven by high glucose. That is, if your HbA1C is good and your HDL-cholesterol is high, then your bad cholesterol is low. (Even if you have high LDL, it will be the good type.)

If you want to dive deeper into cholesterol, Ivor Cummings explains it really well (it's a long video though and a bit technical at times). But in short: If your HDL is high then don't worry about the remaining cholesterol values.



But make it sugar free chocolate I make it myself, it's addictive
Recipe: 100g of organic cacao butter. 15g safflower lecithin. 15g inulin. 25g cacao powder (pure cacao no sugar, deoiled). 20g dried milk powder. A pinch of salt. Some sweetener of your choice (like monkfruit or stevia). Some vanilla extract. (You can replace the cocoa with more milk powder for white chocolate, or replace the milk powder with cocoa if you prefer dark chocolate.)

Slowly melt the cocoa butter. Add all the other ingredients and mix well. Add whatever you like in your chocolade (nuts, coconut, peanut butter, dried fruit, chili, you name it, my personal favorite is ground macadamia nuts which is like Reese's, only better). Put it in a chocolate form or something else so that it's spread out (a silicone form is better than a rigid one because you can extract the chocolate in one piece), refrigerate, enjoy.

Thank you.

When my cholesterol was high my total cholesterol level was 6.9. Non fasting sample taken. LDL was 3.9 and HDL 1.6. My triglycerides were high at 3. This is why my Gp panicked. I was 36/37. I’m now 40. I was worried because my uncle at 51 had a major heart attack due to high cholesterol, it was 11. He was slim and very fit, didn’t smoke or eat badly. It turned out they said it was hereditary condition, or they suspected it was that as he had no reason to have high cholesterol. I don’t think it was ever confirmed. He was told to have his sisters and nieces nephews checked so the whole family got checked and my cousin who was only 19 ended up on statins, all my aunties ended up on statins, as did my mum. I began to worry that I had FH which I read is a hereditary cholesterol condition, my GP said no because for a diagnosis of FH it had to be up at 7.5 at least, he told me not to worry.

I went plant-based and within a year I got my class for levels are normal and control I think they were 4.62 (0.0-4.99)for the total cholesterol, LDL 2.63 ( range 0-3) hdl 1.19 (range 1.2-1.7) and triglycerides 1.76 (0-2.3) and hba1c was 34 on that date too, so I did get it down but I’ve always still worried if I have something like my uncle had. I should really go back to cutting our dairy and lower fat as it kept it low last time. I’ve just let my diet go since having CfS. I don’t eat rubbish but I eat the sake types of food and I do like chocolate: when I went gluten free I cut out all cakes and that cut my cholesterol down too. Now I’ve found GF ckae which is dangerous haha. I’m 40 so really need to go back to eating super healthy to keep my cholesterol in check as I always worry about what happened to my uncle. He lived through that ordeal but 15 years late, last year he out of the blue was given weeks to live due to heart failure. Heart breaking. I never got to say goodbye either.

That recipe is fab, thank you. I eat dark choc but it’s called Ombar here in the UK, made from coconut and cacao. Amazing.

 

[Jemima37]

And hey, chocolate therapy may even be research based! Didn't we always know more chocolate is the answer?

Sathyapalan, T., Beckett, S., Rigby, A. S., Mellor, D. D., & Atkin, S. L. (2010). High cocoa polyphenol rich chocolate may reduce the burden of the symptoms in chronic fatigue syndrome. Nutrition journal, 9, 55. doi:10.1186/1475-2891-9-55

And dark choc is good for you so they say

 

[Jemima37]

@Jemima37
Oh, what a terrible time you've had with scary testing! So sorry. I say enjoy the chocolate and don't worry.

Aww, thank you.
During that time my lymphocyte white cells were raised. All other cells were fine but my lymphocytes were 3.98 in March 2017 range was 1.2-3.68. Then they said to wait 3 months and test again. July they were 4.45. My gp mentioned cancer and honestly scared the shit out of me. Referred me to a consultant in haematology and he wrote back saying to dismiss it because if it was cancer then in three months it would’ve multiple into the hundreds. My GP his this information from me and started mentioning cancer and told me I needed to have more tests done and that was the beginning of my CFS getting worse. Stress was horrendous, he put me through that as well as all the constant testing with sodium /diabetes and it was just like he was inflicting his anxieties on to me.

He left the practice and I transferred to a female GP , she read back everything that he had said and she told my husband that the letter from the haematologist said nothing what my ex GP had said, she said it said that nothing to worry about with that level of lymphocytes and to just dismiss it. She rang me up and apologised for what I’ve been through and couldn’t understand why I’d been told different, she reassured me that she had a letter in front of her and she read it out to me over the phone and she said that raisedlymphocytes are usually a blood cancer and she said within three months I’d be seriously ill by now.. I ran through symptoms with her and she said they were nothing like that type of cancer. She told me I had CFS and she was the lady that finally got me diagnosed after the previous GP put me through hell for two years and avoiding diagnosing me.

So since then I’ve not been well with agoraphobia and extreme social anxiety, as well as the doctors phobia. I haven’t had my cells tested since but my GP says she’s not concerned because she said if you had anything sinister 2 1/2 years on you wouldn’t be here. I guess she’s right. Yes it was a very difficult time and I will enjoy the chocolate ha ha.

 

[Frunobulax]

Thank you.
I went plant-based and within a year I got my class for levels are normal and control I think they were 4.62 (0.0-4.99)for the total cholesterol, LDL 2.63 ( range 0-3) hdl 1.19 (range 1.2-1.7) and triglycerides 1.76 (0-2.3) and hba1c was 34 on that date too, so I did get it down but I’ve always still worried if I have something like my uncle had. I should really go back to cutting our dairy and lower fat as it kept it low last time. I’ve just let my diet go since having CfS.

Don't go low fat. You lowered your HDL by going plant based, in turn you increased your risk for heart disease. LDL is used for fat metabolism, a high LDL is perfectly normal if your fat metabolism is good.

Watch Gary Taubes and David Diamond on youtube. About 2-3 hours, but it might make a big difference for your life. Or Ivor Cummings specifically about cholesterol science. (David and Ivor show two sides of one medal.) If you want to know your risk for heart disease, get a CAC scan. Ivor has a ton of stuff on his website on this, too.

All this is strictly science based, backed by big studies. No conspiracy theories, promise

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I hope you enjoy watching the videos and come to realize that plant based diets are indeed healthy....better for us, better for the environment and of course, better for the animals.

There just does not seem to be a universal answer to what is the optimal diet because- BODIES vary and bodies are not the same.

I simply know the direct effect of my eating vegan or even vegetarian (maybe there was an egg) leads me directly to extreme and severe ill health.

 

[Jemima37]

Don't go low fat. You lowered your HDL by going plant based, in turn you increased your risk for heart disease. LDL is used for fat metabolism, a high LDL is perfectly normal if your fat metabolism is good.

Watch Gary Taubes and David Diamond on youtube. About 2-3 hours, but it might make a big difference for your life. Or Ivor Cummings specifically about cholesterol science. (David and Ivor show two sides of one medal.) If you want to know your risk for heart disease, get a CAC scan. Ivor has a ton of stuff on his website on this, too.

All this is strictly science based, backed by big studies. No conspiracy theories, promise

Thank you. I shall look that up.
Yes my good cholesterol went a bit too low. I bet now they’re all in the higher ranges again, good and bad lol. I refuse statins though.

 

[Jemima37]

There just does not seem to be a universal answer to what is the optimal diet because- BODIES vary and bodies are not the same.

I simply know the direct effect of my eating vegan or even vegetarian (maybe there was an egg) leads me directly to extreme and severe ill health.

Oh, so you found being vegan made your health worse?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I find it hard to not worry about the conditions he panicked me about, and it makes me worry a lot about how I eat now.

Experiences like that just tend to go inside and help construct our Wall of Realities.....

At one year old, food entered my body and directly made me sick. (severe food allergies start). So blame the food, suspicious of food, whats wrong with the food, this food tastes awful...on and on for decades.

do I blame brocolli for Saturday (worst IBS I can remember)?

So perhaps we have to work our way down to the bottom of that Wall and replace the brick with a better one.

As someone who had gestational diabetes when pregnant in my 30s, that was an indicator I likely was going to- go Type 2 eventually.....so I've held that off so far but am constantly managing some blood sugar thingy or another seems like.

Its far more your genetics than anything- my husband can live on fruit and carbs all day long.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

It is interesting to see that "healthy" cholesterol levels are quite different in different countries, and have changed quite a bit since statins started being pushed. The vilification of cholesterol, which is crucial for our health, is another sad impact of profits over health.

This whole cholesterol- is- bad- obsession- lead to years of people eating bad hydrogenated margerines and ridiculously not eating eggs or not eating yolks (which also contain lecithin).

My current GP recommended I try Red Rice Yeast...so I am trying that out. Now and then.

I'm fallen off the protocols, again. Sometimes you wonder if it makes any difference..taking all that or just not bothering to take any of all that. Maybe an occassional break in- all these teas and supplements- might also ve something the body needs.

My diet is: rather paleo, low carb, with carb cheating like- part of piece of Naan. Or a bit of sour dough. Rice occasionally.

Diet is very personal. People need to do what works for them. Vegan retreat centers who decide whether you can or cannot eat something- well fine- I won't be visiting.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Oh, so you found being vegan made your health worse?

I was a very strict vegan for about 3 years between 17-20.

I recall concluding that I am a very sick person when vegan it did not in any way improve my health (talking high school, had already done round III Mono; I weighted about 108 pounds and 5'4.). No CFS or ME existed at that time (nobody was reading about benign polio myelitis...that I knew)..so I was sick compared to my healthy friends, but still could do most stuff we were all doing (hiking, swimming, dreaming etc).

I stopped being vegan - because I had to go work at remote places where somebody else is cooking and you have no access to food. One cannot live on iceberg lettuce and velvetta cheese on Rainbow Bread. Thats it- (and velveta aint even vegan). My health was much better after that...generally speaking.

Periodically, I've then had episodes of more vegetarian or more whatever...and so from those experience I also know that I seem unable to run on- vegetarian meals. I'm literally starving at the retreat and we are eating tons of food. Starving from oatmeal.

Potatoes au grautin for dinner. So that cooks idea of a healthy meal is not healthy in my body.

I conclude there is no universal miracle diet suitable for all Sapiens.

 

[wabi-sabi]

@Rufous McKinney @Jemima37

You might take a look at Denise Minger's blog https://deniseminger.com/

She's a health writer who has had personal experiences with dietary issues and writes about why some people can or cannot do well with a vegan diet. I think it's as Rufous says- a lot to do with our genes.

 

[Frunobulax]

Oh, so you found being vegan made your health worse?

OK. We have to get something out of the way first: We have to separate ethics and health. I think industrial livestock farming is atrocious. I try to buy organic and pastured meat, although I have to admit that I simply can't afford that on a daily basis. But I avoid poultry because I don't want to think about how many animals died (including shredding of chickens for example) for that chicken breast on my table. BUT. This does not imply that vegan food is more healthy for any given person. And it certainly does not imply that all vegan foods are healthy for all of us.


The problem with all plant based food is: Every single plant has toxins that are supposed to keep insects away. There are various kinds of toxins, I've read that corn alone has about 20 different lectins. (Haven't verified it though.) Wheat has two that we know really well, WGA and gluten. Cauliflower has fodmaps. Spinach has oxalates. Literally any plant has them. You can't avoid all of them because then there is no plant left. (If you have them, you'll have to go carnivore.) So you have to find out which ones you personally have to avoid.

Now, most people are OK with these toxins/antinutrients. Some people will have to avoid some food. (Peanuts is a good example, they contain various lectins and many people are allergic to them. The lectins cause the allergy.) I've read that 5 to 10 percent of the population can't detox oxalates well, those people will be sensitive to almonds, spinach, black tea and more. For me, even small quantities of peppers or peanuts give me diarrhea and heartburn (probably due to the lectins) and I can't eat any grains, but all of them may be perfectly OK for you.

Some of us (possibly with certain gene variants) have trouble because we have too many sensitivities. Another issue is quantity. We usually can detox lectins pretty well via the gastrointestinal mucus, but if we eat too many lectins (from whole grain bread for example) then our microbiome degrades and we get leaky gut, and at this point we may suddenly have issues with food that was perfectly OK previously. So these sensitivities get worse with time and exposition.

Case in point: Assume that you're on an island where the only thing you can eat is animals because all plants are toxic. Will you start eating meat or will you starve to death? This may sound extreme, but that's exactly where some people (very, very few) are today, because they can't tolerate most plant based food. For many of us we'll have to find out which ones are toxic to us (and this is individual, mainly due to genetics), and avoid them. We are not taught how to do this, in fact research on this just picked up in the last 15 or so years, and the problem is that there is no direct feedback. We may not have any gastrointestinal symptoms, instead we get dementia or autoimmune conditions.

For example there is proven connection between eating wheat and Alzheimers. We have verified in animal studies that WGA, a wheat lectin, travels via the vagus nerve into the brain. There is a norwegian study that found out that people who had their vagus nerve surgically cut, which was a somewhat common surgery in the last century to relieve heratburn, have only half the risk to develop Alzheimers. Paul Mason has a talk on this on youtube, and I think it's in Steven Gundrys books too.

do I blame brocolli for Saturday (worst IBS I can remember)?

You should ask yourself if you may be oxalate sensitive. Start a food diary, note when you have issues, and look up with veggies have which antinutrients. If you find that you have IBS whenever you eat oxalates, try an low oxalate diet and add some magnesium citrate for every meal that contains some oxalates. If you find out that you have IBS after eating fodmaps, avoid them altogether. (It's easy to avoid fodmaps because they are only in some plants, while carnivore is the only way to avoid oxalates completely as many plants contain low to medium quantities of oxalates.)

As an example, here is what I found out:
I'm sensitive to many lectins (but I can eat cooked tomatos and zucchinis), some fodmaps (cauliflower is OK but xylitol isn't) and I'm currently exploring whether I see improvement from a low oxalate diet. I have no issues with histamine, salicylates and nickel. I'm not sure about isoflavones but avoid them anyway (soy).

 

[Timaca]

I live and preach a ketogenic diet which can easily be vegetarian, with a lot of salad, vegetables, olive oil, coconut oil and nuts.

Hi Frunobulax~ I agree with you about avoiding processed foods and eating whole foods. Brenda Davis does a talk about the Keto and Paleo diets which you can find here. It might be worth your while to watch it.

Best,

 

[Timaca]

I went plant-based and within a year I got my class for levels are normal and control I think they were 4.62 (0.0-4.99)for the total cholesterol, LDL 2.63 ( range 0-3) hdl 1.19 (range 1.2-1.7) and triglycerides 1.76 (0-2.3) and hba1c was 34 on that date too, so I did get it down but I’ve always still worried if I have something like my uncle had.

Most people can get their lipid levels and HgbA1c down to normal levels following a plant based diet. You were able to do that! Good for you!

People will say "It's in my genes, I can't do anything about (fill in the blank---heart disease, diabetes, cancer etc). " In fact, the saying goes that genes load the gun, but lifestyle pulls the trigger. MANY people have gotten rid of their heart disease, diabetes, asthma, arthritis, etc by following a plant based diet. And that includes you because your labs got better! Yay! If you need encouragement you can join a group such as Forks Over Knives (they have a FaceBook group). Good luck.

I went plant based to help keep my lipid levels reasonably normal. I figured I already had CFS, I didn't need heart disease also!

 

[Timaca]

Don't go low fat. You lowered your HDL by going plant based, in turn you increased your risk for heart disease. LDL is used for fat metabolism, a high LDL is perfectly normal if your fat metabolism is good.

If your total cholesterol levels drop, your HDL often drops, but becomes more efficient. Check out this case report by Dr. Ostfeld. Here is a quote from that article: Increased HDL-C efflux capacity has been independently associated with improved cardiovascular outcomes.[7],[36],[37] And, while plant-based diets may lower HDL-C levels, they are associated with increased HDL-C efflux capacity.[7]

Here is a video of Robert Ostfeld speaking.

With regard to LDL, Dr. Kim Williams likes to see it under 100 (see previous videos that I linked to). I struggle to get mine there, so my last blood draw I also had an oxidized LDL test run, which fortunately came out low. Nevertheless, I'm going to continue to tweak my plant based diet to get my LDL under 100. (wish me luck) I am truly jealous of the people who can get their LDL levels low just eating plants. It seems I also have to watch the amount of fruit and nuts and seeds that I eat.

I am grateful though that my TMAO level is low, which likely would not be the case if I ate animal products (see any of the videos I've linked to). That is an independent risk factor for heart disease.

Best,

 

[Jemima37]

Most people can get their lipid levels and HgbA1c down to normal levels following a plant based diet. You were able to do that! Good for you!

People will say "It's in my genes, I can't do anything about (fill in the blank---heart disease, diabetes, cancer etc). " In fact, the saying goes that genes load the gun, but lifestyle pulls the trigger. MANY people have gotten rid of their heart disease, diabetes, asthma, arthritis, etc by following a plant based diet. And that includes you because your labs got better! Yay! If you need encouragement you can join a group such as Forks Over Knives (they have a FaceBook group). Good luck.

I went plant based to help keep my lipid levels reasonably normal. I figured I already had CFS, I didn't need heart disease also!

Thank you so much.
That’s very true, I got it all under control. I only eat chicken and tuna, but do eat dairy but this last 2 weeks I’ve stopped cheese and chicken as I just can’t stomach it knowing what the animals go through and plus chicken just disgusts me lol. So I’m getting there again and hope to go plant based again.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Timaca]

I only eat chicken and tuna

I'm glad my post was helpful to you!
If you eat tuna often, you might want to have your mercury levels checked. Tuna is one of the foods that is high in mercury. Before I went to the whole foods plant based diet, I ate a fair amount of fish. Most of it was low in mercury. At one point, I asked my doctor to check my mercury levels and it was twice the upper limit of normal!!!!!!!!!! I cut out all the fish and within a few months my serum mercury level was normal again. So just wanted to make you aware of that!!