What can low white blood cells indicate?

ChookityPop

Senior Member
Messages
481
Likes
592
I have low white blood cells that was outside the ref range. I got it just inside the ref range last year and havent tested it since.

Anyone else? Is this common in ME CFS patients?


Labs:

ige
16.09.2019 49 <120
04.07.2019 64 <120
07.05.2019 72 <120
26.10.2015 78 <120
16.09.2014 100 <120
07.08.2014 125 * <120

iga
06.05.2021 1,2 0,7 - 3,7
07.05.2019 1,5 0,7 - 3,7
26.10.2015 1,4 0,7 - 3,7

igg
06.05.2021 8,4 6,1 - 14,9
07.05.2019 7,7 6,1 - 14,9
26.10.2015 7,8 6,1 - 14,9

igm
06.05.2021 1,0 0,4 - 2,1
07.05.2019 0,7 0,4 - 2,1
26.10.2015 0,8 0,4 - 2,1

leukocytes
28.10.2020 3,5 3,5 - 10,0
04.08.2020 5,2 3,5 - 10,0
09.10.2019 3,3 * 3,5 - 10,0
16.09.2019 2,7 * 3,5 - 10,0
04.07.2019 3,3 * 3,5 - 10,0
07.05.2019 4,6 3,5 - 10,0
26.10.2015 4,4 3,5 - 10,0
23.10.2014 4,2 3,5 - 10,0
07.08.2014 4,4 3,5 - 10,

neutrophils
28.10.2020 1,7 1,5 - 7,3
04.08.2020 2,1 1,5 - 7,3
09.10.2019 1,4 * 1,5 - 7,3
16.09.2019 1,4 * 1,5 - 7,3
04.07.2019 1,5 * 1,5 - 7,3
07.05.2019 2,2 1,5 - 7,3
26.10.2015 2,2 1,5 - 7,3
23.10.2014 1,8 1,5 - 7,3
07.08.2014 2,0 1,5 - 7,3

eosinfile
28.10.2020 0,2 <0,4
04.08.2020 0,6 * <0,41
09.10.2019 0,0 <0,41
16.09.2019 0,0 <0,41
04.07.2019 0,1 <0,4
07.05.2019 0,3 <0,4
26.10.2015 0,2 <0,4
23.10.2014 0,2 <0,4
07.08.2014 0,2 <0,4
 
Last edited:

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,476
Likes
9,278
Location
australia (brisbane)
I have low white blood cells that was outside the ref range. I got it just inside the ref range last year and havent tested it since.

Anyone else? Is this common in ME CFS patients?
Total white cells or neutrophils?
Neutrophils initially go high with an infection and after infection or prolonged infection, neutrophils can drop.
Also possibly some immune defiency eg igg, igm, iga.
My neutrophils have been below range for years. Never been able to get an answer. Other immune abnormalites ive had were elevated lymphocyte T subsets and low nk function.
 

ChookityPop

Senior Member
Messages
481
Likes
592
Total white cells or neutrophils?
Neutrophils initially go high with an infection and after infection or prolonged infection, neutrophils can drop.
Also possibly some immune defiency eg igg, igm, iga.
My neutrophils have been below range for years. Never been able to get an answer. Other immune abnormalites ive had were elevated lymphocyte T subsets and low nk function.
I added labs in the post. its my leykocytes and possibly neutrophils thats been low at times.
 

ChookityPop

Senior Member
Messages
481
Likes
592
Hi @ChookityPop ....

Without knowing what else was in your blood work, the easy answer, and we all know how rarely those work out, is that you have a low-grade infection going on somewhere in your system. Not bad enough to plague you with symptoms, but enough to drain your immune system a bit ....
Interesting! I added some other blood work in the post. My leukocytes been out of range but I also have low ranges in other areas as well..
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,476
Likes
9,278
Location
australia (brisbane)
You get tested for mycoplasma and chlamydia pneumonia which are common bacterial infections in cfsme. Doxycycline is commonly used, you either feel better or get worse from the bacterial die off first and then improve. Sometimes people need to add a second abx. Rare to see a complete cure but it can improve ones cfsme and take some burden of your immune system.
Testing for these bacteria from memory isnt tyat accurate. Many have just done a treatment trial of doxycycline. I suggest research those bacteria in cfs than chat to your dr about it??
 

ChookityPop

Senior Member
Messages
481
Likes
592
You get tested for mycoplasma and chlamydia pneumonia which are common bacterial infections in cfsme. Doxycycline is commonly used, you either feel better or get worse from the bacterial die off first and then improve. Sometimes people need to add a second abx. Rare to see a complete cure but it can improve ones cfsme and take some burden of your immune system.
Testing for these bacteria from memory isnt tyat accurate. Many have just done a treatment trial of doxycycline. I suggest research those bacteria in cfs than chat to your dr about it??
I actually have high mycoplasma pneumonia igg. 93 au/ml. Im going to test clamydia as well. Thank you for making me aware on this again. Its so much to be on top of. All these possible leads everywhere. hehe
Ive been on doxy for 5 weeks or so now. I think I may feel a little better? maybe it is placebo. Its minimal though and I just added rifampicin. Rifampicin inhibits th17 immune response which is connected to autoimmunity if I understood it correctly.
And the Gulf war veterans that got mycoplasma pnemoniae and clamydia that ended up with ME CFS had to stay on doxycycline for a year I read.
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
9,476
Likes
9,278
Location
australia (brisbane)
I actually have high mycoplasma pneumonia igg. 93 au/ml. Im going to test clamydia as well. Thank you for making me aware on this again. Its so much to be on top of. All these possible leads everywhere. hehe
Ive been on doxy for 5 weeks or so now. I think I may feel a little better? maybe it is placebo. Its minimal though and I just added rifampicin. Rifampicin inhibits th17 immune response which is connected to autoimmunity if I understood it correctly.
And the Gulf war veterans that got mycoplasma pnemoniae and clamydia that ended up with ME CFS had to stay on doxycycline for a year I read.
I think some need 6 months plus on it. At some stage others add azithromycin. Keep up probiotics. Zinc and b12 may help low neutrophils. Optimal hormone levels play an important part in bone marrow production and neutrophils etc. But treating the infection is tbe priority👍. Good luck.
 

Pyrrhus

Senior Member
Messages
3,309
Likes
9,882
Location
U.S., Earth
Im going to test clamydia as well
Make sure that they test for "Chlamydophila Pneumoniae", not for "Chlamydophila Trachomatis"!

I've had labs mix up these two tests before.

Chlamydophila Pneumoniae is a common respiratory infection in ME patients.
For me, it cleared up with just two weeks of ciprofloxacin, but I may have been lucky.

Chlamydophila Trachomatis, on the other hand, is a sexually-transmitted infection confined to the genital area.
 

ChookityPop

Senior Member
Messages
481
Likes
592
Make sure that they test for "Chlamydophila Pneumoniae", not for "Chlamydophila Trachomatis"!

I've had labs mix up these two tests before.

Chlamydophila Pneumoniae is a common respiratory infection in ME patients.
For me, it cleared up with just two weeks of ciprofloxacin, but I may have been lucky.

Chlamydophila Trachomatis, on the other hand, is a sexually-transmitted infection confined to the genital area.
Thanks for the heads up! I was actually aware of that. Ive read a very interesting article on Gulf war veterans having mycoplasma pnemoniae and or Chlamydophila Pneumoniae if I remember correctly. And 80% of them got better from one year of doxycycline.
 

minimus

Senior Member
Messages
124
Likes
357
Location
New York, NY
I’ve had low neutrophils and an overall low white blood cell count on and off since getting sick with ME in 1998. My neutrophils and WBC counts fell to permanently below normal around the time my ME went from moderate to severe in mid-2018. My neutrophils are now regularly around 1.2, and my WBC count hovers around 3.

My primary care doctor referred me to a hematologist/oncologist, who said that abnormal levels of a single cell line, (e.g. neutrophils) are usually nothing to worry about. He eventually did a bone marrow biopsy (which so many people had told me beforehand is “extremely painful”, but it wasn‘t painful at all.) The results were essentially normal, i.e no problem with bone marrow production. His conclusion is that my neutropenia is “idiopathic”.

Unfortunately, my trial of high dose IVIG for small fiber neuropathy was stopped because IVIG was pushing my neutrophils below 1. Even though IVIG was helping me clinically, the prescribing neurologist stopped treatment, saying the benefit I was getting from IVIG wasn‘t great enough to justify the potential immune deficiency it was causing. My ME has gotten worse since I went off IVIG..

I have always had extremely elevated EBV titers, including early antigen, though antivirals like famvir and valtrex haven’t helped me at all. I suspect that EBV may play a role. I haven’t been tested for chlamydia pneumonia or mycoplasma infection.

Paul Cheney, who I used to see for ME before I became severe, said he has seen a fair number of low white cell counts in his ME patients, saying it’s fairly common. I also went to Nancy Klimas’s clinic in early 2018. She stopped in during my appointment with a nurse practitioner there, noted my low white cell count, and said that usually low white cell counts in ME patients result from these cells sticking to blood vessel walls, not to bone marrow problems. I have no idea how she knew this.

In any case, your neutrophil and WBC (leukocyte) counts were only below normal in the past, and barely so, and the most recent results are back within the normal range. So I wouldn’t worry about it, though it makes sense to follow through with the suggestions of others to see if you have a low-grade bacterial infection.
 

Pyrrhus

Senior Member
Messages
3,309
Likes
9,882
Location
U.S., Earth
I’ve had low neutrophils
His conclusion is that my neutropenia is “idiopathic”.
You may be interested in this discussion:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/declining-neutrophils.75238/

Unfortunately, my trial of high dose IVIG for small fiber neuropathy was stopped because IVIG was pushing my neutrophils below 1.
Remember that a low level of neutrophils in the blood does not mean that the neutrophils are "gone" or "dead". Most of the time, it means that the neutrophils have left the blood to attack an infection/wound in a different part of the body. Neutrophils are one of the "first responders" of the immune system, and are usually the first immune cells to leave the blood to attack an infection/wound.
 

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,427
Likes
6,710
Remember that a low level of neutrophils in the blood does not mean that the neutrophils are "gone" or "dead". Most of the time, it means that the neutrophils have left the blood to attack an infection/wound in a different part of the body. Neutrophils are one of the "first responders" of the immune system, and are usually the first immune cells to leave the blood to attack an infection/wound.
infectious neutropenia is usually transient and followed by neutrophilia, I would tend to think the neutropenia of chookity (from july to october 2019) may be the result of some immune insult or drug reaction?

I am also prone to neutropenia after vaccine shots or with some drug so I share some immune picture with chookity :thumbsup: