• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

What autoantibodies and ANAs tests should I do?

sometexan84

sometexan84

Senior Member
Messages
1,235
You should get tested for Antiphospholipid Syndrome.

These are the 3 main antibody tests....
Cardiolipin antibodies
Beta-2 glycoprotein 1 antibodies
Lupus anticoagulant assay

I'd also do one for Antiphosphatidylserine

This related to what you're saying your symptoms are, and APS is not uncommon in CFS
 
sometexan84

sometexan84

Senior Member
Messages
1,235
@Learner1

Found some stuff....

Strong molecular mimicry evidence...

Alpha acetylcholine receptors could be from Herpes Simplex Virus
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2551924/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10742556/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_mimicry
"the α-subunit that demonstrates immunological cross-reactivity with a shared immunodominant domain of gpD of the herpes simplex virus (HSV)"

Beta 1 adrenergic receptor could be Trypanosoma cruzi
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3268148/

Actually, turns out there's a crap-ton of T. Cruzi autoimmune potential....
1610242433884.png



Angiotensin II type 1 receptor antibodies definitely Parvovirus B19
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17150255/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4131731/

Dopamine receptor antibodies likely from Group A Streptococcus
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5812018/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3779221/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666144620300137

Muscarinic cholinergic (MC) receptors may be from T. cruzi
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3943813/

... that's all I got. Still can't find Beta 2... or much on Muscarinic
 
Learner1

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
Epstein Barr can trigger many, many types of antibodies. Other infections can trigger many types, too. It's not a one to one relationship.

It's best to figure out the infections one has, and treat them, and one would have fewer antibodies to begin with, because it's pretty hard to get rid of them once one has them, and the treatments are on a short list.
 
sometexan84

sometexan84

Senior Member
Messages
1,235
Learner1 said:
Epstein Barr can trigger many, many types of antibodies. Other infections can trigger many types, too. It's not a one to one relationship.
Click to expand...

Yea, but I have to know and document the specifics, cause I'm weird like that, so....

From my notes, EBV has a bunch and so far is #2 on my list of infection/autoantibody association (confirmed). Though I haven't looked into things I don't have like VZC, CMV, etv.

Parvovirus B19 - 33

EBV - 22

Strep - 12

Enterovirus B - 9

I've also seen recent studies suggesting synergistic combo infection autoimmune attacks (e.g. Coxsackie + Group A Strep) :wide-eyed:

Learner1 said:
It's best to figure out the infections one has, and treat them, and one would have fewer antibodies to begin with, because it's pretty hard to get rid of them once one has them, and the treatments are on a short list.
Click to expand...

1) Yes, but not everyone can easily treat their infections. I think this is a given, for sure yes, diagnose and treat infections as much as humanly possible.

2) Treating antibodies could help treat infections (e.g. destroy parasympathetic nervous system-targeting antibodies to get great quality sleep, this is essential for fighting infections)

3) You could have antibodies doing damage that were produced by bacteria, where the bacterial infection is long gone. I'd love to elaborate on this because I think it's important, but I don't feel like anyone would care tbh
 
Learner1

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
K

Krokus

Messages
47
@sometexan84 ,
We need to know what is going on in our bodies and how things are connected. I think you are doing an important work, doesn't matter what will come out of it. That kind of work has to be done!
 
sometexan84

sometexan84

Senior Member
Messages
1,235
I actually haven't been able to find more than these (2) antibodies associated w/ C. Pneumoniae...

- HSP60 (Chlamydia pneumoniae peptide)
- Rheumatoid Factor

Do you know of any other specific ones? I would like to know... I've been surprised to not have found more antibodies for C. Pn.

Oddly enough, the Cp-Hsp60 Ab has shown to be very prevalent in ME/CFS...

"a peptide from Chlamydia pneumoniae HSP60 detected IgM in 15 of 61 (24%) of ME, and in 1 of 399 non-ME at a high cutoff (p<0.0001)"
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0081155
 
Learner1

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
sometexan84 said:
I actually haven't been able to find more than these (2) antibodies associated w/ C. Pneumoniae...

- HSP60 (Chlamydia pneumoniae peptide)
- Rheumatoid Factor

Do you know of any other specific ones? I would like to know... I've been surprised to not have found more antibodies for C. Pn.

Oddly enough, the Cp-Hsp60 Ab has shown to be very prevalent in ME/CFS...

"a peptide from Chlamydia pneumoniae HSP60 detected IgM in 15 of 61 (24%) of ME, and in 1 of 399 non-ME at a high cutoff (p<0.0001)"
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0081155
Click to expand...
Like I said, it's not a one to one relationship. Infections rile the immune system and autoimmune antibodies develop.
 
Learner1

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
There is simply not enough science out there on this. People have different underlying genetics and environmental factors such as heavy metal and mycotoxin toxicity, other infections, immune system abnormalities, nutrient deficiencies or imbalances, hormonal imbalances and other comorbidities such as diabetes, depression, hemochromatosis, EDS all of which have an effect on how the body responds to a virus or bacterial infection. Virtually none of these factors are taken into account in research on the triggering of antibodies or on how the body responds to a given virus or bacteria.

You might find this book an interesting read :

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0743277767/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_jgf.FbW9C10T2
 
ChookityPop

ChookityPop

Senior Member
Messages
584
You guys are wizards. I really appreciate all the usefull info!

Is it anyway to test a big panel of all of these ANAs and autoantibodies online? or any clinics etc we can send blood to? It will take ages to do this through my dr etc.
 
sometexan84

sometexan84

Senior Member
Messages
1,235
ChookityPop said:
You guys are wizards. I really appreciate all the usefull info!

Is it anyway to test a big panel of all of these ANAs and autoantibodies online? or any clinics etc we can send blood to? It will take ages to do this through my dr etc.
Click to expand...

---EDIT---
I forgot a lot of this had already been said...
-----------

There's shortcuts for sure!

ANA - Antinuclear Antibodies (1 test, which can exclude everything below if you test negative)

Other ANA Antibodies....​

  • dsDNA
  • ssDNA
  • Anti-Sm (Smith)
  • Anti-Ro/SSA
  • Anti-La/SSB
  • sp100
  • PML
  • gp210
  • ACA (Anti-centromere)
  • Nucleoporin p62
  • Ribosomal P
  • Histone
  • U3-RNP
  • Jo-1
  • Scl-70
  • U1-RNP
  • p62
  • PM-Scl
  • DFS70
Tbh, I think there's prob some overlap in the above list. Also, there are more antinuclear antibodies.

The CellTrend panel is good, a must for everyone here.

I'd do a panel for Antiphospholipid Syndrome.

These Cyrex panels cover a lot of good stuff...

​
I think some other Cyrex panels would be helpful to others, depending on your set of conditions.​

There's also the Cunningham Panel.

But really, a good idea would be to research SLE, Myelitis, Inflammatory Bowel Disease, Diabetes, Arthritis, Sjögren's syndrome, Sclerosis, Autoimmune Thyroid Disease, Anemia, Thrombosis, Guillain-Barre syndrome, etc. And find where your symptoms match the most.

And then, you can look for Panels for that condition. For instance, I did a "Myomarker" Panel that tested all the antibodies associated with Myositis, Polymyositis, Dermatomyositis, etc.
 
Last edited:
ChookityPop

ChookityPop

Senior Member
Messages
584
sometexan84 said:
- Antinuclear Antibodies (1 test, which can exclude everything below if you test
Click to expand...

sometexan84 said:
---EDIT---
I forgot a lot of this had already been said...
-----------

There's shortcuts for sure!

ANA - Antinuclear Antibodies (1 test, which can exclude everything below if you test negative)

Other ANA Antibodies....​

  • dsDNA
  • ssDNA
  • Anti-Sm (Smith)
  • Anti-Ro/SSA
  • Anti-La/SSB
  • sp100
  • PML
  • gp210
  • ACA (Anti-centromere)
  • Nucleoporin p62
  • Ribosomal P
  • Histone
  • U3-RNP
  • Jo-1
  • Scl-70
  • U1-RNP
  • p62
  • PM-Scl
  • DFS70
Tbh, I think there's prob some overlap in the above list. Also, there are more antinuclear antibodies.

The CellTrend panel is good, a must for everyone here.

I'd do a panel for Antiphospholipid Syndrome.

These Cyrex panels cover a lot of good stuff...

​
I think some other Cyrex panels would be helpful to others, depending on your set of conditions.​

There's also the Cunningham Panel.

But really, a good idea would be to research SLE, Myelitis, Inflammatory Bowel Disease, Diabetes, Arthritis, Sjögren's syndrome, Sclerosis, Autoimmune Thyroid Disease, Anemia, Thrombosis, Guillain-Barre syndrome, etc. And find where your symptoms match the most.

And then, you can look for Panels for that condition. For instance, I did a "Myomarker" Panel that tested all the antibodies associated with Myositis, Polymyositis, Dermatomyositis, etc.
Click to expand...

My neurologist took these last time I was there and all of them was negative. Is there something you think she missed? She was a pain in the ass to communicate with. Planning on testing
voltage gated potassium channels and sodium channel dysfunction. As well as those you sent, celltrend, Array 5 - Multiple Autoimmune Reactivity Screen etc.

Cytoplasmatisk antistoff Cytoplasmatisk
Myosittspesifikke antistoffer
HEP2 ANA IF
Anti-Mi-2 blot
Anti-Mi2a blot
Anti-Ku blot
Anti-Jo1 blot
Anti-SRP blot
Anti-PL-7blot
Anti-PL-12 blot
Anti-EJ blot
Anti-OJ blot
Anti-TIF1G blot
Anti-MDA5 blot
Anti-NXP2 blot
Anti-SAE1 blot
Anti-Ro-52 MYO-blot
Anti-PMSCL100 MYO blot
Anti-PMSCL75 MYO blot
 

Attachments

  • 150787134_895645181255626_3595480885704392048_n.png
    150787134_895645181255626_3595480885704392048_n.png
    2.4 MB · Views: 17
  • 151279102_2528605894110240_1597996858997248802_n.png
    151279102_2528605894110240_1597996858997248802_n.png
    2.2 MB · Views: 18
sometexan84

sometexan84

Senior Member
Messages
1,235
@ChookityPop That looks like a panel for Myositis. Def worth a shot. Mine were all neg as well. At least you ruled that out though.

I see the acetylcholine receptors you tested negative for. But I don't know what all that includes. If that DOES cover all the acetyl. rec., then I guess that would mean you could skip those on the CellTrends test. But I'd do everything else the CT panel has to offer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.