What about the DOGS?

[Boule de feu]

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this.

I am wondering if researchers have already thought of this, but I thought it would be interesting to look at dogs with CFS to see if they present the same XMRV infection.

http://priory.com/vet/cfsdogs.htm

http://www.cfsresearch.org/cfs/tarello/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-dogs-and-cats.pdf

It seems that researchers are able to identify which dogs have CFS (easier than humans?). It would be easy to check if they also have XMRV? Could it give us some info that we need?

 

[Merry]

Thanks, Boule de feu. I hadn't heard anything on the topic of sick pets for a long time. In the 90s many times I read reports of CFS patients with sick pets, and I myself had a dog and, later, a cat, that seemed to age rapidly, were lethargic and "arthritc" (stiff and apparently in pain) and whose sudden deaths vets puzzled over.

I had not known that vets were diagnosing pets with CFS.

 

[Boule de feu]

My dog died from a epileptic-like type of seizure. It was very sudden, too.

I wonder if researchers could use this info and figure out what's wrong with them and then apply this to us?

 

[twopenneth]

Mouse related viruses-
I thought about this. I have noticed that a lot of people on the ME Face book pages are pet owners. Primarily cat and dog owners cats chase mice dogs chase cats. I even noticed a CFS study. CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME (C.F.S.) IN A FAMILY OF DOGS
It seems pets are not immune to this illness! can this virus jump these species of animal?
http://priory.com/vet/cfsdogs.htm

 

[Boule de feu]

I believe that's the link I gave above. Did you have another study in mind?

What strikes me is the fact that vets are able to identify CFS in dogs (and probably cats) without doubting that there is a real illness going on. Why is it so hard to believe that we could be infected with the same bacteria, virus, etc.?
Is CFS found in dogs a different illness than human CFS and if so, why would they call it CFS?

 

[Boule de feu]

Other opinions/comments on this?

 

[Boule de feu]

I have noticed that a lot of people on the ME Face book pages are pet owners.

Would WE give the illness to our pets or would THEY give it to us?

 

[Merry]

Hi, Boule de feu.

Yes, I wonder how the researchers arrived at the decision to call the sickness in pets CFS. Did a researcher have a personal interest in CFS in humans, say, an ill family member or friend and had read about CFS patients with sick pets? Any vets on this forum?

In my case, I was sick long before I owned the dog and the cat. So if I carried/carry some pathogen infectious to other mammals I think I must've made the dog and the cat sick. No way to prove that. But I do feel responsible.

Both the dog and cat, I might add, suddenly died at times when they were under stress. During moves they were left in the temporary (but weeks long) care of relatives. A vet autopsied the dog and found massive infection. I don't remember the details. Years later, during another move, the cat died, and a vet speculated that it might have been "bumped" by a passing car and not been killed immediately. The cat had no visible injuries and no autopsy was performed.

Someone above said cats chase mice, dogs chase cats. Dogs also eat mice.

I could write a few pages about all the wild mice in my life. But I'm not thinking at this point that exposure to mice made me sick. I have every reason to think I was infected by another human (my mother).

I suspect that all my questions about causation and transmission are not going to be answered before I keel over in a sudden death that puzzles veterinarians.

 

[Boule de feu]

I was in direct contact with lab mice and got bitten a few times.

I have also a close relative who committed suicide because doctors would not believe she was sick. They were saying it was "all in her mind". But, that was a very long time ago and I don't think anyone knew about CFS back then.

I also got very sick after periods of severe stress (surgery that went wrong). My dog also died because I had left her (going to university in another town).

You should not feel responsible for something you didn't know about. It's not like you voluntarily infected your dog and cat... and we are not too sure that it is even the case.

I would really like to know if the dogs showing CFS-like symptoms are infected with XMRV. It would be a way to show that we have something in common that makes all of us (dogs and humans) sick. But, maybe what I'm saying does not make sense at all. So, let me know if it is the case.

 

[anciendaze]

There is considerable research on Feline Leukemia Virus, and even a vacine in use by veterinarians. This is substantially less similar to HMRV (XMRV, PMLV) than MLV. Diagnosing the same problem in dogs and horses is hard, because many symptoms are common to a variety of conditions.

 

[Mya Symons]

Thanks, Boule de feu. I hadn't heard anything on the topic of sick pets for a long time. In the 90s many times I read reports of CFS patients with sick pets, and I myself had a dog and, later, a cat, that seemed to age rapidly, were lethargic and "arthritc" (stiff and apparently in pain) and whose sudden deaths vets puzzled over.

I had not known that vets were diagnosing pets with CFS.

I have been wondering about whether or not CFIDS can affect pets too. Both my cats have been having problems digesting food and they vomit often. The eight year old cat is lethargic even for a cat. Cats have a second eye lid that you can see when they are medicated or sick. I can often see it slightly lowered on the older cat. Also she already has bad osteoarthritis (like me) and cannot jump up to her favorite spots. I have taken her to the vet and he can't find anything wrong with her. Both my cats have had all their shots and have tested negative for feline leukemia and feline AIDS.

 

[Boule de feu]

Thank you for this precision, anciendaze.
Very interesting.

 

[Boule de feu]

I have been wondering about whether or not CFIDS can affect pets too. Both my cats have been having problems digesting food and they vomit often. The eight year old cat is lethargic even for a cat. Cats have a second eye lid that you can see when they are medicated or sick. I can often see it slightly lowered on the older cat. Also she already has bad osteoarthritis (like me) and cannot jump up to her favorite spots. I have taken her to the vet and he can't find anything wrong with her. Both my cats have had all their shots and have tested negative for feline leukemia and feline AIDS.

So, you know for sure that they don't have feline leukemia nor AIDS but something else.
It's too bad your vet can't do anything to help your cat.

 

[Frank]

My previous cat also died after weird symptoms, i heard the vet called it "Cat AIDS"

 

[Boule de feu]

My previous cat also died after weird symptoms, i heard the vet called it "Cat AIDS"

Is there such a disease as "CAT AIDS" or is it just a name vets give when they don't know what the animals are suffering from?

 

[Boule de feu]

In the first study (see above), we can read:

Although Chronic Fatigue Syndrome has never been clinically described in dogs, prevalence surveys indicate that a remarkable number (97%) of patients with CFS had animal contact, particularly with dogs and cats, and that 75% of these pets appeared sick, with signs and symptoms which mimicked CFS in humans, strongly suggesting a zoonotic transmission (Glass,1998).

That is a lot! 75%... suggesting a zoonotic transmission...
a virus, maybe?

 

[anciendaze]

Is there such a disease as "CAT AIDS" or is it just a name vets give when they don't know what the animals are suffering from?

There is a real Feline AIDS caused by FeIV. It was known before human AIDS, and is now treatable because this was an animal model of AIDS available early on in developing treatments. I know someone who is treating a cat with this condition. It is a real problem because they must keep it separate from other cats.

This is one possible host for novel pathogens transmitted to humans. In the wild a cat with FeAIDS would die quickly because of impaired hunting skills. Domestic cats can survive even if they are very sick, as long as someone else operates the can opener. Nothing prevents an infected cat from carrying multiple viruses.

 

[Boule de feu]

Very interesting, anciendaze!
Thanks for the info.

 

[Merry]

mice pets

In another thread I read that in prostate cancer research in China, the search for XMRV/MLVs is complicated (if that is the right word) by the fact that many Chinese men keep mice as pets.

In the household I grew up in, the mice kept us as pets. Old farmhouse in poor repair.

Or maybe we were lab animals, and They were running experiments.

 

[Boule de feu]

In another thread I read that in prostate cancer research in China, the search for XMRV/MLVs is complicated (if that is the right word) by the fact that many Chinese men keep mice as pets.

In the household I grew up in, the mice kept us as pets. Old farmhouse in poor repair.

Or maybe we were lab animals, and They were running experiments.

One would think that their CFS numbers are probably higher (in China)...

LOL - You are funny!

Of course, we all know that it's aliens who abducted all of us and inseminated us with mouse virus to experiment on us... (lol)