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Were you infected by another route?

Countrygirl

Senior Member
Messages
5,500
Location
UK
For anyone who is interested in possible transmission of retroviruses from insect to human, you might like to Google 'Do insects transmit AIDS? by Lawrence Miike - Office of Technical Assessment, U.S. Congress. It was written a looong time ago in 1987 and the basic conclusion is that insect transmission is possible, but unlikely.I don't know how relevant this would be to XMRV or whether there are more up-to-date papers. It is an interesting read. Ticks seem to be out of the frame, but horseflies and other larger insects aren't. Go read and see what you think.
 

valia

Senior Member
Messages
207
Location
UK
It's supposed to mean they haven't figured out the cause, same as post-infectious CFS. And they may or may not eventually find that it is indeed due to chronic infection (for example the West Nile Virus example in the Precipitating Pathogens article.) Many doctors misinterpret it as you say though, similar to how doctors misinterpret the term CFS.


There are no doubts about the cause of Lyme disease, but they want us to believe that after 2 weeks of antibiotics you are cured, then you have a completely separate condition only now it is a medically unexplained somatoform disorder, which by some amazing coincidence produces the exact same symptoms only worse as you are deteriorating further.

...and if you believe that you will believe anything
 

Advocate

Senior Member
Messages
529
Location
U.S.A.
I think the LLMDs are quacks a level above the quacks in CFS and that Igenex is a quack lab. (Of course, I didn't think so at the time.)

I think that is a very harsh generalization. I do not question that you were not helped, but I know many others who did recover with the help of an LLMD after being rejected or abandoned by a "regular" doctor.
 

valia

Senior Member
Messages
207
Location
UK
It is analogous to CFS after mono or CFS after West Nile Virus. They do call it a separate condition CFS from mono because the chronic and acute are different. We have the same problem with doctors thinking CFS is somatoform disorder. Anyways, I use the term post-Lyme syndrome in the same way I would use the term post-infectious CFS. I think the mainstream Lyme doctors have been worse about ignoring the chronic disease than mainstream doctors have been at ignoring CFS. That's why I think the CFS researchers will figure out post-Lyme syndrome before they will.


As I said before, "Post-Lyme Syndrome" doesn't exist

You are talking of Mono and West Nile Virus as triggers for CFS...Post-infection.

I am talking of misdiagnosed or inadequately treated Acute Lyme Disease becoming Chronic persistent Lyme Disease with active infection.
 

Dainty

Senior Member
Messages
1,751
Location
Seattle
I am certain I inherited some sort of genetic weakness from my mother, even though she does not have CFS. She has multiple allergies, some very severe, and I have also had multiple allergies since birth, and we share many of the same ones. For example maternal grandmother, mother, and I all get severe hayfever, and my mom developed a milk allergy (not lactose intolerance) even though she was raised on a farm drinking "organic" raw milk! Since birth milk has been one of my worst allergies. I also had chronic ear infections and consequently partial hearing loss as a child, and literally couldn't breath through my nose until I was about 9. Allergies also tend to run in my maternal extended family, as well as a B-12 deficiency, even under more optimal and natural living conditions than most people have. I also have celiac disease, which is known to have a genetic pre-disposition. All these things point to some undefined genetic weakness, yet I am the only person in my family or extended family with CFS.

I don't think I had any blood contact. None of the obvious routes (transmissions or transplants) and while I did roughhouse a lot and thus got a lot of scrapes as a kid I can remember only one time when someone else tended to the wound for me; I tended to keep to myself. I was hospitalized in Cameroon with an I.V. once, and I suppose it's possible that they used a dirty needle, but we knew the people running the hospital and unlike another Cameroonian hospital I can think of this one was a tight ship. I don't believe the missionary doctor who led it would have neglected to ensure that basic protocols like sterile needles were followed.

Saliva is a possibility for me, though quite remote. I'm told I did kiss someone on the mouth as a kid (though I don't remember), and believe it or not I've never kissed anyone on the mouth since! (It's by choice; no need to feel sorry for me.) However I have shared food from the same plate or ther such saliva-on-food tansfers, mostly between imemdiate family but sometimes with family friends too. I found it slightly disgusting so I didn't do it often, only when the situation called for it. If XMRV is spread by saliva then I've probably given it to a lot of people, since I was always the one who couldn't finish her food and had someone else eat it for me.

Vector-borne, in combination with the genetic weakness, is the most likely mode of transmission for me. My family went camping and backpacking a lot, and then livin gin the bush in Cameroon for several years resulted in all kinds of bites. Multiple bouts (more than I remember to count) with malaria and one bout of dengue fever shows just how many mosquito bites got through, despite our attempts. I also had a tick feeding on my scalp all night once, and actually haven't gotten around to probperly testing for Lyme yet. Ticks were extremely common where we were...our cat would be covered with them, perhaps about 20 on its face at any given day. We'd pick them off sometimes. The chickens didn't seem to get them. I suppose it's possible that the cat got it from the ticks and then I had a blood transmission with the cat, but since I had a life-threatening allergic reaction to cats I didn't play with it too often. But that jsut gives you an idea of how many ticks there were there. Any cat got covered with them, to the point where you though it was just part of their fur. :(

Anyway, one thing I'm really curious about is whether or not my sister is XMRV positive, if I turn out to be. We're close in age and were exposed to the same things, and were often sick at the same time together with the exact same thing, so it's a helpful indicator. However she does not have the same genetic weakness that I do; she was a healthy kid and has few or no allergies. However, she has had some health problems, but I haven't been privy to all the details. She does not want anything to do with CFS. So I don't know much, but I do think it's possible that she is XMRV-positive, and if we both are I would venture a guess that it was vector-borne and aquired while in Cameroon, or at least triggered there. I would also surmise that the reason she has not become as ill as I from it is because she never had the genetic weakness and rough start that I did.

But all this is just guesswork. All I know for sure is what transmission it isn't and probably isn't, and all this without even knowing whether or not I'm XMRV-positive! :rolleyes: Sometimes I wonder why I bother to spend my energy on these sorts of things...but then I remember that the process was interesting and the thought was stimulating in an enjoyable manner, and that's enough for me to make it worthwhile. :)
 

Countrygirl

Senior Member
Messages
5,500
Location
UK
I am wondering if it would be possible to be infected by XMRV by being bitten by a rodent. When I was about 10 years old, my pet guinea pig bit me quite deeply. I had my first allergic reaction as a result - rash, hayfever-type symptoms and asthma - within minutes. She died shortly after. Anyone any thoughts?
 
Messages
2,577
Location
US
Interesting about the guinea pig bite, I wonder how many here had that kind of bite/exposure. I may have. I had gerbils (and birds) and other pets.
 

Dainty

Senior Member
Messages
1,751
Location
Seattle
Well in the beginning of this YouTube Video, the second in the Series of yesterday's Webinar, Dr. Bateman re-explains that the X in XMRV stands for Xenotropic which translates to exotic, means that only animal cells other than mice cells can be infected by XMRV and the example says "hamsters and rats".

http://www.youtube.com/solvecfs#p/a/f/1/wBxQcXCOXV0

That's interesting. I did have a pet rat for a number of years, and handled it quite often without many hygiene precautions. I was bitten once by a friend's pet rat, but I don't remember if it drew blood or not. In any case, it wasn't a bad bite, but if I remember correctly the rat did die within a few months of that incident. I did get scratched a lot by my own rat, and developed a pretty severe allergy to scratches made by rats. But that probably has nothing to do with anything.

All this talk makes me want to hibernate for a year or two and then wake up in a time when there are more answers. :Retro tongue:
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,936
Location
Albuquerque
All this is so wild! Will we ever know? :ashamed: I used to work with lab rats and had to listen to their breathing by sticking the little snouts in my ears and listening.:worried: I got swollen ears from this.

I mean, was it Mom, a sexual partner....or a Rat?

Jeez!

Sushi
 

sproggle

Jan
Messages
235
Location
Teesside, England UK
It's all way too mind boggling!!

Its anything from vermin at my local reservoir, or maybe my pet hamster -I had two hamsters as a kid &one got aggressive and bit me then died soon after. We burried him at the bottom of the garden -maybe I could arrange a CSI style autopsy and have him tested? lol

Im even thinking an ex boyfriend may have infected me, we only kissed but it might be transmitted that way and his mother had been diagnosed with MS by then which I believe has also been linked to XMRV -please correct me if I'm wrong.

Then there was the operation I had, not sure if was given a transfusion or not but suddenly really wanna know!!

My minds spinning but then it is 4.24am so rational thinking is out the window!

And of course this is all assuming I have it, I am convinced I do but have to remind myself it's possible I don't.

I think to myself god I really need to get tested.... quickly followed by, but then whatever the outcome I'll just be left with more questions

It will be a while before I'm able to get tested anyway so I should just put it all out my mind -but I'm finding it impossible!
 

beesknees

Senior Member
Messages
117
I am wondering if it would be possible to be infected by XMRV by being bitten by a rodent. When I was about 10 years old, my pet guinea pig bit me quite deeply. I had my first allergic reaction as a result - rash, hayfever-type symptoms and asthma - within minutes. She died shortly after. Anyone any thoughts?

I wondered the same thing. I had several pet guinea pigs and still have them. Before I was sick I was bitten really bad by one that drew blood.