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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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[Webinar] Thursday, June 17th 7PM ET - Frontline COVID-19 Critical Care doctors unveiling I-RECOVER Protocol for Long Haul COVID Syndrome (LHCS)

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863

It's been some while since I looked at it, but I also checked a simplified meta-review of various studies on Omega 3 and they found a signal that it's likely DHA that outweighs the EPA-mediated risk reduction. I'm not sure if I can find it again. I don't think it was a peer-reviewed paper. Are you sure that the EPA formula is patented? I thought it would be widely available. I use a product called Pharmepa Restore from igennus.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,398
Location
Austria
I knew the prescription and unaffordable Lovaza was patented. Googling brought me with more up to date details to: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_eicosapentaenoic_acid

Lovaza Prices

The cost for Lovaza oral capsule ethyl esters 1000 mg is around $322 for a supply of 120 capsules, depending on the pharmacy you visit. Prices are for cash paying customers only and are not valid with insurance plans.
 
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Messages
42
Fluvoxamine is specifically indicated for the potential anti-inflammatory effects, not necessarily the serotonin reuptake inhibition. Fluvoxamine is unique among SSRIs in that it has significant agonist effects at the sigma-1 receptor that can reduce expression of inflammatory cytokines.

The guidelines recommend a starting does of 50mg twice daily, which is in the range of therapeutic dosing for depression. However, they note that doses as low as 9mg twice daily have been effective, which is much lower than the doses required to treat depression. At that low of a dose, the serotonin reuptake inhibition would still be present, but not to the 80% SERT inhibition typically required for antidepressant effects.

I think low-dose Fluvoxamine could be worth exploring for this reason. It's not just an SSRI in this case. At low doses, it may not be much of an SSRI at all.
 

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,323
Pretty certain that most SSRIs have been found to be anti-inflammatory, they all inhibit the production of certain cytokines in the brain and increase others and beyond that impact things like the kynurenine pathway for example.

I'm more curious as to whether there is anything unique about Fluvoxamine. It's one of the rarer prescribed SSRIs from what I understand due to a worse side effect profile and being less selective than some newer SSRIs. Given that way know SSRIs in general don't work for ME/CFS, could it be that only fluvoxamine and in this specific low dosage could be useful? I would probably bet against that. It seems more likely that they haven't had the time or resources to even include multiple SSRIs at this point in any studies, so they just went with the one they had some information on.

Edit: I now saw the post above about sigma-1 receptors. I still doubt it would be of much use for most of us.
 
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nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
I think low-dose Fluvoxamine could be worth exploring for this reason. It's not just an SSRI in this case. At low doses, it may not be much of an SSRI at all.

I agree. Good point.

In wondering whether Fluvoxamine is the only sigma-1 agonist, I found this study:

Allosteric Modulators of Sigma-1 Receptor: A Review (2019) [10.3389/fphar.2019.00223]

I generally prefer reversible allosteric modulators over agonists because it normally gives the metabolism better chances to adapt with lower signaling variance and with reduced risks for dependence. It's possible that Fluvoxamine is also a modulator, I'm not entirely sure. Sometimes, modulators are also termed "agonists" or "antagonists" even though this isn't technically correct. It depends on how they measure the signaling. Specific human metabolite agonist antibodies are usually used to verify if it's an agonistic or positive-allosteric mechanism. Without this kind of control, they can't tell the difference.

Nevertheless, they also list fenfluramine, another SSRI, as a putative positive allosteric modulator. So there might be even more unidentified SSRIs. They all have the serotonin issue, of course.

They also list various drug candidates I've never heard of and I doubt are available or affordable. Among them, SKF-83,959 sounds like a promising candidate due to its combined effects on dopamine receptors.

Fortunately, there is one non-SSRI drug that could be repurposed, namely Phenytoin. Phenytoin is an anticonvulsant that is used against seizures, e.g. in epilepsy patients. It's an inhibitor of Na+ and Ca+ Voltage-gated channels, which coincidentally is consistent with CFS/ME pathology. It blocks sodium influx, probably by the same mechanism. This is also consistent with CFS/ME pathology in that sodium pumps oversaturate cells with sodium and desaturate them from potassium. Hence, phenytoin might also have protective functions on the heart. This mechanism might be shared by all sigma-1 modulators since sigma-1 is involved in the regulation of sodium channels [10.1152/ajpcell.00431.2008]. According to this study, sigma-1 receptors are also abundant in the heart.

Sigma-1 is also very abundant in the brain, of course. But not so much in the liver and other organs, I suppose, because most in vitro studies with these tissues couldn't find any significant effect.

Phenytoin is a prescription drug just like any SSRIs, but it's quite cheap. It might also be indicated if CFS/ME patients have any history of seizures. I have a history of seizures. It's also indicated for certain kind of pain syndromes. Since most CFS/ME patients don't have epilepsy and the default dosage is adjusted for this, lower doses are most likely more helpful in order to avoid risks and side effects. Low-dose phenytoin has been successfully tried in one autism case so far [10.1186/1752-1947-9-8].

By the way, unlike valproic acid, phenytoin apparently doesn't inhibit HDACs [0.1111/j.0013-9580.2004.00104.x]. So, phenytoin can not trigger viral reactivations. It's unclear if valproic acid interacts with sigma-1 as well.
 
Messages
42
Low dose Fluvoxamine might be the best, readily-available sigma-1 agonist drug we have available right now. I suspect that's why they chose it for their recommendations. Doses as low as 50mg have shown significant occupancy (around 30-40% IIRC) of the sigma-1 receptor in humans.

As far as experimental compounds, Cutamesine (SA-4503) is very selective for sigma-1 and has undergone Phase II human trials already. If sigma-1 becomes a relevant research topic in this area, I expect SA-4503 is where drug companies would look next.

I wouldn't assume that allosteric modulators of sigma-1 have similar effectiveness as agonists. I haven't seen Phenytoin mentioned anywhere in the COVID research around sigma-1. Dextromethorphan (DXM) has sigma-1 activity, but it also has numerous other effects that make the sigma activity hard to separate.
 

marcjf

Senior Member
Messages
127
I am part of other Long Covid groups, and heard positive stories of people on Fluvoxamine, at least from those that tolerate it. It would be interesting to see a proper clinical trial though. A lot of these patients are doing a mix and match of prescriptions and alternative therapies, so it is hard to judge based on anecdotes.
 
Messages
31
I'd also be very cautious with Diazepam, and other SSRIs (not just Fluvoxamine).

i was curious are you against taking ssri b/c ssri itself (i mean u would not recommend it for anyone, unless it's obviosly , either pwME or not) or you are against in our(me/cf) it b/c somehow it might be counter-effective against CFS?
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