• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Wanting some ideas about coffee enema's and glut-s-t??

learner2life

David Pain
Messages
71
Location
Tijuana-San Jose, Ca
I was advised to start doing coffee enema's. I have read some post on here about them, for some it didn't seem to do too much and others it was a positive thing. My main question is the raising of glutathione s transferase by such a huge margin. Claiming a 600 - 700 percent increase, I wonder if that is even healthy. Wouldn't the amino acids glutamine, glycine and cysteine be needed to even create such an increase. It seems like that would shunt the production of the other glutathione enzymes, even if it had the resources to make such an increase. It just is such an astounding claim I wonder if it is even beneficial. I have reservations about adding more single thiols also. I like how it flushes the liver so to speak and I want the detox from that. Just having some questions about it?
 

learner2life

David Pain
Messages
71
Location
Tijuana-San Jose, Ca
Can I ask if you have experience with them? When I spoke with my naturopath she was a big advocate for them. I haven't done one personally. When I asked if I should be concerned with such an increase in single thiols she didn't really know. She isn't familiar with Andy Cutler's views on glutathione IV's and mercury toxicity, but maybe I have been detoxing long enough that this wouldn't be a problem and be helpful.

I have read that some have taken binders such as chloropyll, 30 minutes before the actual enema. I need to do some more research on it, honestly. From my understanding the coffee enema removes the majority of the toxic bile so it isn't reabsorbed. Also, it is left in the colon for 15-20 minutes allowing the liver to purify the blood many times within the session.
David
 

Cindi

Senior Member
Messages
229
I have done many of them when I was in really bad state.My digestive system had shut down at that time and I had extreme toxicity problems.. It helped me greatly. At this moment my digestive system function is better. I am still toxic although not as much as I was before but somehow I have great difficulty to keep the solution inside. Not sure what has changed. I still do it from time to time like when I have flu or extreme pain.Try it.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,284
Location
Ashland, Oregon
o.k. I guess I will try it.. thanks alot!

I regularly do CEs as I've found them to be very helpful, especially for headache relief. Mornings are generally the hardest time of the day for me, and I generally wake up with a headache, often being accompanied by varying degrees of depression and anxiety. I chalk it mostly up to toxicity that has built up in my body during the night, and CEs are invaluable in reliably and consistently pulling me out of these morning "funks"; without pain pills or depression/anxiety medication.
 

learner2life

David Pain
Messages
71
Location
Tijuana-San Jose, Ca
Thanks Wayne,
It's great so many have such good things to say about them. I get very cautious about taking or trying anything new honestly. However strange the idea is of a CE is, it sure is to me, it is a form of detoxing that I don't think many other methods can match. I'm looking forward to trying it.
David
 

greenshots

Senior Member
Messages
399
Location
California
I started doing them a few months back when my sister was diagnosed with metastatic endometrial cancer. Boy have they helped! That ammonia toxicity I've fought for years in the late evening and mornings vanishes after the CE. It wasn't easy at first and I used small amounts to get used to them (8 oz with only 1-2 tsn coffee) but gradually got used to 32 oz and much stronger, organic coffee. It did seem to make detox tougher the first few times but once I got used to them, I love how much better I feel afterward! As for my sis, well, she's healthier than ever and 50% of her cancer has regressed. So much so that her oncologist actually said "I was wrong. Keep doing what your doing." life is strange. see this vimeo lecture on cancer and CFS treatment by Dr. gonzalez MD since he uses coffee enemas, pancreatic enzymes, and a specific diet to heal cancer. This is one of the things that my methylation doc has my sister and others doing and its been amazing! Gonzalez is well known for cancer but treats Lyme, CFS, FM, MCS and more.

 

learner2life

David Pain
Messages
71
Location
Tijuana-San Jose, Ca
Wow, congratulations to your sister. That's a great improvement. So far I have done two and I think they help. One drawback I noticed from the first one was the effect on my adrenals and just feeling amped up and the subsequent crash. I used 4 cups of water and 2-3 tbsp of coffee but after researching a little more I think that is excessive to take all at once. The sigmoid portion from my understanding is the only part that really needs the coffee and if it goes higher one risks absorbing it into the system. I tried using smaller amounts and that worked a little bit better. I am a little confused about the headache I got after I did it. The first one I did I took activated charcoal to help absorb toxins and I didn't get a headache. I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it or not. I was suprised at how creative some people are with their water oil solutions. Mild soaps solutions, lots of different herbs, sea salts then there's coffee. Yeah, learning alot about it. All in all I think its a positive thing..
David
 

greenshots

Senior Member
Messages
399
Location
California
Adding organic Chamomile tea helps drastically with bowel spasms and the jittery feeling some get. I premake my coffee so its all set up in glass jars & then I add a cup of hot chamomile tea to make it body temp. I use 2 bags for the night one since it helps sleep. and my sis is nothing! My doc has patients with stage 4 pancreatic cancer who are on the mend, its crazy!
 

learner2life

David Pain
Messages
71
Location
Tijuana-San Jose, Ca
Hmm, maybe I will try that. This is intriguing about the doctor you mention. Do they follow some form of Gerson therapy? I have been trying to learn about that. This is the stuff that I like to hear about honestly. It sounds like they have roots in naturopathic medicine, or atleast are open to alternative therapies. That's a great thing!
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,284
Location
Ashland, Oregon
I thought I would dig up an old thread on coffee enemas I started on the ProHealth board about five years ago. I edited and condensed it a bit (below) for brevity and clarity. You can click on the title to take you to the original thread, which has more posts and discussion. -- Wayne
..................................................................................
Why I do daily coffee enemas -- Some perspectives

My family and myself have a history of gastrointestinal (GI) problems as well as ME/CFS/FM. A major chemical injury at age 32 greatly exacerbated my GI problems as well as my Environmental Illness (EI). It got to the point where even relatively light toxic exposures would make me extremely ill and literally paralyze my peristalsis for weeks on end. So I was dealing with a very difficult and serious situation. My underlying genetics, combined with the chemical injury forced me to look for solutions that I knew very few if any doctors would be able to help me with.

I tried many things over the ensuing years, but nothing helped on a consistent basis. I eventually ran across literature on coffee enemas (CEs) but was very hesitant to pursue them. Eventually I did try one using Folgers coffee. It was horrible! I’ve since learned that non-organic coffee is sprayed with more pesticides than almost any other product. (I now use ONLY ORGANIC caffeinated coffee). But not knowing this at the time, I checked CEs off of my treatment options for several more years. I continued to browse the literature on CEs and eventually came across Sherry Rogers’ book “Tired or Toxic”. In it, she laid out coffee enema information in a way I could understand and appreciate. So I went online and did even more research. The more I read, the more my intuition was telling me this was the right thing to pursue for myself.

I have been using them on a daily basis now for several years (first thing in the morning). I have come to view them as providing at least 25% of the functionality I now enjoy. I estimate low-dose hydrocortisone (Cortef) provides me with about 50%, and the rest of the things I’m doing provides the other 25%. The biggest benefit of all has been the sense of regaining a much greater semblance of control of my everyday life. Prior to CEs, my CFS was so severe that I would normally wake up in the morning with a terrible headache, and begin to wonder how I was ever going to sit up in bed and then make it all the way to the bathroom. I would sometimes have to crawl and break half way there and rest for a while before continuing on. And I could stay in a stupor for hours.

After getting started on Cortef and then combining it with CEs, my mornings are dramatically different. I’ve been able to transform them from being the absolute worst time of the day for me into probably the most healing time of the day. During and after doing a CE, my sinuses begin to clear, the pressure and pain in my head (and other generalized pain areas) start to dissipate, my whole nervous system begins to relax and calm down, and more. I feel I’m also getting the following benefits: 1) My colon stays clean, which includes the benefit of inhibiting the chances of parasites or candida to take hold; 2) My liver and gall bladder stay clean, which means better detoxification, digestion, avoidance of gall bladder sludge and stones, and much more; Both of these benefits have significantly improved my skin health; 3) Any tendencies toward depression are minimized. I think when so many of us go into our down cycles, there is a natural inclination to become depressed about it. I really believe my regimen has helped me from developing a prolonged clinical depression.

There may be those who may think I’m advocating that everybody do this. Not at all. I do this because I was literally forced to by my circumstances. My perspective is that for most people, doing daily CEs are unnecessary. Doing them at various select times however could be very beneficial. Sherry Rogers emphasizes their importance when we go through various herxing reactions. For those who might think that something so unnatural might possibly do harm, I will just mention that my doctor who is familiar with CFS/FM was highly supportive of my doing this regimen. He was the one who advised I supplement it by taking a couple capsules of charcoal to help absorb released liver and gall bladder toxicity. The good news is that my colon and entire GI tract are doing better now than they have in decades. It’s simply something that works well for me. When approaching any new kind of therapy, I always encourage people to do fairly extensive research. Research on CEs will provide you with various instructions on how to do them, as well as precautions that you should be aware of. For me, they have been very safe and effective.

Regards, Wayne
 

m1she11e

Senior Member
Messages
333
Location
Florida
I didnt know they increased Glutathione. When I have done them I ALWAYS feel better within a few hours. I look way healthier too. Been a long time since Ive done one because they arent easy to do when you are in a relationship. It can be a deal breaker! :eek:
 

greenshots

Senior Member
Messages
399
Location
California
The first time I did a coffee enema, I was less than excited! in fact, I hemmed and hawed and dreaded the whole thing. So I came home one afternoon, tired as could be from kids, grocery shopping, and errands and found to my great surprise, that the bathroom was candle lit, I had a little egg crate pad on the floor (with LOTS of towels over it) and an enema bucket all set up with some coffee. Now that's love.

I doubt there's many out there who'd make light of it with humor and light candles. Or many who would go to the work of making you healthy like that when they know your avoiding it and they even think its a bit weird. My husband has never listened to a doctor in his life and he thought everythng alternative was pure hocus pocus until he met my doc. But once he saw what she did for our kids and family, he listened to whatever she said. So I say if thats a deal breaker for a relationship, good riddance!
 

greenshots

Senior Member
Messages
399
Location
California
Hmm, maybe I will try that. This is intriguing about the doctor you mention. Do they follow some form of Gerson therapy? I have been trying to learn about that. This is the stuff that I like to hear about honestly. It sounds like they have roots in naturopathic medicine, or atleast are open to alternative therapies. That's a great thing!


She picks and chooses many theories like Yasko, James, Gerson, Kelley, and Dr. Pall but I think she uses Dr. Gonzalez the most when it comes to coffee enemas & some of the juices. Dr. G combines Gerson and Kelley and some mainstream stuff and has a good success rate with treating Lyme, CFS, and esp cancer. She's saving my sister's life with his work and the support group she goes to has all kinds of people with late stage ovarian, pancreas, colon, stomach, and breast cancer but who are years and years out from their diagnosis. Its a crazy world! I'd have never believed it if my own family didn't go thru it.
 

m1she11e

Senior Member
Messages
333
Location
Florida
The first time I did a coffee enema, I was less than excited! in fact, I hemmed and hawed and dreaded the whole thing. So I came home one afternoon, tired as could be from kids, grocery shopping, and errands and found to my great surprise, that the bathroom was candle lit, I had a little egg crate pad on the floor (with LOTS of towels over it) and an enema bucket all set up with some coffee. Now that's love.

I doubt there's many out there who'd make light of it with humor and light candles. Or many who would go to the work of making you healthy like that when they know your avoiding it and they even think its a bit weird. My husband has never listened to a doctor in his life and he thought everythng alternative was pure hocus pocus until he met my doc. But once he saw what she did for our kids and family, he listened to whatever she said. So I say if thats a deal breaker for a relationship, good riddance!

Wow...where do I get me one of THOSE husbands? Amazes me the support some actually do get when they are ill. I guess that is a whole new thread....
 

greenshots

Senior Member
Messages
399
Location
California
Well, he's definitely not perfect and isn'tnthe doting type, thats for sure. But he doesn't mind facing uglier truths in life, which is good since we're surrounded by them. My doctor once said something that stuck.....its the "princess" types who are the most distressed by the idea of CE's and can't seem to do them. I would also guess those more clean cut, appropriate guys wouldn't like it either. But one thing I'm not, is a princess and my husband knows it. I've knuckled down thru some God awful times to get something done and maybe thats all part of growing up on a ranch. In any event, a man's strength is short lived and suited for chasing off demons for his damsel but our strength tends to carry the day through the drudgery of day in and day out. let him know from the start you are a survivor and that's the only thing that matters.


Wow...where do I get me one of THOSE husbands? Amazes me the support some actually do get when they are ill. I guess that is a whole new thread....
 
Messages
2
Hi All- been awhile since I've been on this forum. My former id was herbqueen. I'm along term fibro 14 years turned neuro 6 years ago with MS type symptoms-optic neuritis, numbness, balance, dizziness etc. A lyme herbal protocol triggered a neuro attack. So did flagyl/diflucan fungal theory treatment 2 years ago which left me numb all over and in hell for 10months. Anyway, I've climbed back from that to being more functional using homeopathy and exercise/meditation, juicing, high raw vegan diet, prayer you name it. I then developed ovarian complex cysts- so between my existing neuro/lyme and that decided to try a modified gerson therapy. It's been 2 weeks and the coffee enemas had me boucing off the walls/stopped sleeping, so I cut the coffee dose to 1/2 ( 3 TBLSP to 2 quarts). It's aggravated my neuro symptoms of twitching, jerking, seizure type jerks (subtle mainly at night) and nervous irritation/anxiety system on fire, still losing sleep. I'm not sure if it is detox /gerson or the caffeine being toxic to me? 3 years ago when I became SO sick from the drugs I had my phase I/phase II liver detox checked. My phase I was too fast, and phase II to slow. They use caffeine to test this and I did not clear that. So...... am I just not able to handle caffeine. So frustrating as I'm running out of therapies to try reverse this illness. I was so sick 3 years ago I did not dare stick my toe into the antibiotic for chronic lyme world. Thinking about HBOT, but really hoping Gerson might help me with my obgyn issues as well as chronic lyme. I reasoned if it cured TB why not Lyme? Any thoughts? I'm 50 years of age. I was working until 2 .5 years ago when my 3rd MS type attack forced me to quit working. Thank you!
 
Messages
2
Hi All- been awhile since I've been on this forum. My former id was herbqueen. I'm along term fibro 14 years turned neuro 6 years ago with MS type symptoms-optic neuritis, numbness, balance, dizziness etc. A lyme herbal protocol triggered a neuro attack. So did flagyl/diflucan fungal theory treatment 2 years ago which left me numb all over and in hell for 10months. Anyway, I've climbed back from that to being more functional using homeopathy and exercise/meditation, juicing, high raw vegan diet, prayer you name it. I then developed ovarian complex cysts- so between my existing neuro/lyme and that decided to try a modified gerson therapy. It's been 2 weeks and the coffee enemas had me boucing off the walls/stopped sleeping, so I cut the coffee dose to 1/2 ( 3 TBLSP to 2 quarts). It's aggravated my neuro symptoms of twitching, jerking, seizure type jerks (subtle mainly at night) and nervous irritation/anxiety system on fire, still losing sleep. I'm not sure if it is detox /gerson or the caffeine being toxic to me? 3 years ago when I became SO sick from the drugs I had my phase I/phase II liver detox checked. My phase I was too fast, and phase II to slow. They use caffeine to test this and I did not clear that. So...... am I just not able to handle caffeine. So frustrating as I'm running out of therapies to try reverse this illness. I was so sick 3 years ago I did not dare stick my toe into the antibiotic for chronic lyme world. Thinking about HBOT, but really hoping Gerson might help me with my obgyn issues as well as chronic lyme. I reasoned if it cured TB why not Lyme? Any thoughts? I'm 50 years of age. I was working until 2 .5 years ago when my 3rd MS type attack forced me to quit working. Thank you!
In addition to IGENEX positive for Lyme, I also test high for EBV, parasites, Hplyori, Candida--at least for what I've tested for so far!
 

maryb

iherb code TAK122
Messages
3,602
Location
UK
If you check greenshots post she says start low - 8oz to I think 2/3 teaspoons, maybe your solution was just too strong, also what about adding in something gentle like camomile?