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Vitamin C and Vitamin D

u&iraok

Senior Member
Messages
427
Location
U.S.
So, I'm so excited to post this. I took 5,000 milligrams of Vitamin C and 40,000 IUs of Vitamin D in divided doses every day for six months or so during this past winter. I took it so that I wouldn't get flus or colds. Well, I didn't get any. This is the first time since 1997 that I haven't gotten a flu or cold in the winter. I noticed that I would always come down with something in Feb or March and assumed it was because my D was low.

And not only that, but I just came back from the dentist and the dentist said I have reversed my gum problems! Just six months ago I had a gum infection and also had to get two fillings for gum recession. He said to keep doing what I was doing. I had to think--I did take CoQ10 but I was taking it on and off before. And then it hit me--it has to be the C and D.
 

deleder2k

Senior Member
Messages
1,129
Have you checked your Vitamin D levels lately? Taking 40,000 IU can be dangerous.

Excessive amounts of vitamin D in the body can cause calcium levels in the blood to rise. This can lead to a condition called hypercalcemia (too much calcium in your blood). Symptoms include:

  • fatigue
  • loss of appetite
  • weight loss
  • excessive thirst
  • excessive urination
  • dehydration
  • constipation
  • irritability, nervousness
  • ringing in the ear (tinnitus)
  • muscle weakness
  • nausea, vomiting
  • dizziness
  • confusion, disorientation
  • high blood pressure
  • heart arrhythmias
Long-term complications of untreated hypervitaminosis D include:

  • kidney stones
  • kidney damage
  • kidney failure
  • excess bone loss
  • calcification (hardening) or arteries and soft tissues

Discontinuing or lowering your intake of high-dose vitamin D supplements can prevent hypervitaminosis D. The tolerable upper limit, or the maximum daily intake of vitamin D that is unlikely to result in any health risks, has been set at 4,000 IUs (international units) per day. Adverse effects have been seen in those taking less than 10,000 IUs per day over an extended period of time.

Source: http://www.healthline.com/health/hypervitaminosis-d#Prevention6
 

ScottTriGuy

Stop the harm. Start the research and treatment.
Messages
1,402
Location
Toronto, Canada
I found this informative about high dose Vit D...

Excessive immune activation and vitamin D – lessons from multiple sclerosis

"present study in MS patients showed that high doses of vitamin D3 are safe. Moreover, such doses of vitamin D3 have the ability to reduce the immune system’s attacks on the body—such attacks are called autoimmunity. The findings from the present study support large, randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials of high-dose vitamin D3 in other health conditions where excess immune activation and autoimmunity are present"

http://www.catie.ca/en/treatmentupd...-immune-activation-and-vitamin-lessons-multip
 

Andielyn

Senior Member
Messages
132
Interesting research @ScottTriGuy I am always leery about taking excessive doses of any of the fat soluble vitamins that are stored, not excreted (A,D,E,K) It always surprises me the dosages that are available in OTC vitamins. I'd be afraid to take large amounts without careful monitoring, personally. I wonder if there is a correlation between latitude and MS?
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
@ScottTriGuy, 40,000 IU is not a high dose. It is very high dose. I am not sure that it is dangerous, but it could very well be. Studies have shown side effects in persons receiving well under 40,000 IU a day.

This is an interesting read on Vitamin D: https://theconversation.com/the-sun...y-mind-about-this-celebrated-supplement-52725

I mistakenly read the op's dosage at 4,000 and I was worried! That is way to high of a dose. Believe me from my personal experience, you do not want to get hypercalcemia or hypercalciuria where your blood levels are normal but your kidneys are excreting too much calcium . This can lead to weakened bones as well as other problems.

Even with a deficiency of vitamin D, you can get hypercalcemia/hypercalciuria. I supplement at a low dosage under my doctor's supervision and my d3 levels are slowly improving. Increasing calcium intake which seems counterintuitive when your calcium levels are high, also helps. Calcium is absorbed more efficiently with diet verses supplementation.

While low vitamin D levels also have an impact on your health and you want your d3 at an optimal level, any protective effect wears off after a certain level of supplementation.

https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/am-i-getting-too-much-vitamin-d/

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2182757-clinical#b1

http://m.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/vitamin_d_more_may_not_be_better
 
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*GG*

senior member
Messages
6,389
Location
Concord, NH

I take at least 7,000 IUs of Vitamin D year round, my Multi Vitamin has 2,000 IUs in it and my levels are fine. I'm sure you are not to concerned, @u&iraok and I add another 5,000 IUs in the winter, my levels were lower than I wanted them, and plan to kick up my Vitamin D dosing in September this year, so I am at a good high number for the winter season!

GG
 

deleder2k

Senior Member
Messages
1,129
I take at least 7,000 IUs of Vitamin D year round, my Multi Vitamin has 2,000 IUs in it and my levels are fine. I'm sure you are not to concerned, @u&iraok and I add another 5,000 IUs in the winter, my levels were lower than I wanted them, and plan to kick up my Vitamin D dosing in September this year, so I am at a good high number for the winter season!

GG

From my understanding, @u&iraok is taking 40,000 IU daily - not 4,000.
 

*GG*

senior member
Messages
6,389
Location
Concord, NH
From my understanding, @u&iraok is taking 40,000 IU daily - not 4,000.

Yeah, I saw that, I was not addressing that. I would think the person did this under medical care? Maybe they will pop back into this thread and address this "issue"?

They mention "in divided doses every day for six months or so during this past winter." Seems like there might be some leeway in this response. Or maybe they were not as clear as could be?

GG
 

TigerLilea

Senior Member
Messages
1,147
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
@u&iraok - Make sure to get your doctor to check your 25 (OH) D and calcium levels as taking too much Vitamin D can be dangerous. My doctor recently had me start taking high dose Vitamin C and 2,000 IU of D3 in an attempt to control my sinus infections.
 

u&iraok

Senior Member
Messages
427
Location
U.S.
I found this informative about high dose Vit D...

Excessive immune activation and vitamin D – lessons from multiple sclerosis

"present study in MS patients showed that high doses of vitamin D3 are safe. Moreover, such doses of vitamin D3 have the ability to reduce the immune system’s attacks on the body—such attacks are called autoimmunity. The findings from the present study support large, randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials of high-dose vitamin D3 in other health conditions where excess immune activation and autoimmunity are present"

http://www.catie.ca/en/treatmentupdate/treatmentupdate-185/nutrition/excessive-immune-activation-and-vitamin-lessons-multip

I looked at studies like the one ScottTriGuy posted here and others and came to conclusion that it is not easy to overdose on D. In most of the rare cases people were also taking high levels of calcium as well.

I wouldn't recommend not getting tested, though. I guess I should be careful about posting my regime knowing that other may copy it. I should have left out the amounts that I took. I have noticed, though, that often people who are deficient think that taking 400 IUs will be enough to get their levels up. Many doctors, though, are having people take 10,000 IUs a day, so that might be more in line with what people should consider taking.

I do get sun exposure in the spring, summer and fall and lower my D way down. You definitely don't O.D. on D from sun exposure.

I also factor in my poor assimilation of nutrients. As I get older, it gets worse. It's taken me years of constant supplementing to get my nutrient levels up. Test after test would show the levels not increasing for months. My D was super low and I benefited tremendously from getting the levels up.
 

u&iraok

Senior Member
Messages
427
Location
U.S.
Yeah, I saw that, I was not addressing that. I would think the person did this under medical care? Maybe they will pop back into this thread and address this "issue"?

They mention "in divided doses every day for six months or so during this past winter." Seems like there might be some leeway in this response. Or maybe they were not as clear as could be?

GG

You're right, now that I think about it, I don't usually take any supplements on Sunday and sometimes Wednesdays. No religious or other reasons, just to take a break. And I didn't always take 40,000 IUs every day.
 

Andielyn

Senior Member
Messages
132
I also factor in my poor assimilation of nutrients. As I get older, it gets worse. It's taken me years of constant supplementing to get my nutrient levels up. Test after test would show the levels not increasing for months. My D was super low and I benefited tremendously from getting the levels up.

I think this is a critical point...in my personal experience, people metabolize all drugs differently. Rarely do we know how our body actually metabolizes anything. Some people metabolize very slowly and others metabolize very quickly, and then there is the whole absorption issue which affects the effective dosage.

It's frustrating since so many of us here are lacking a good expert doctor in CFS/ME and it seems there is a lot of self-treatment going on, especially with vitamins and other supplements, myself included.
 

u&iraok

Senior Member
Messages
427
Location
U.S.
I think this is a critical point...in my personal experience, people metabolize all drugs differently. Rarely do we know how our body actually metabolizes anything. Some people metabolize very slowly and others metabolize very quickly, and then there is the whole absorption issue which affects the effective dosage.

It's frustrating since so many of us here are lacking a good expert doctor in CFS/ME and it seems there is a lot of self-treatment going on, especially with vitamins and other supplements, myself included.

It is frustrating. Even if you have the best doctor in the world, haven't we learned how complicated the body is and how little is really known about it? No one is ready for these modern, environmental diseases. And many times, the damage is done, there's only so much you can do. Or is there?

I always think about the example of copper and zinc and how they need to be in balance. Most people are low in zinc so everyone is told to take zinc, but what if you have low copper? It seems like some with ME/CFS have low copper, I did. If you take too much zinc and no copper, it will through the balance off.

So there is a danger is supplementing, willy-nilly, but on the other hand, you have to do something, if you take no vitamins, that's not good either. You know your own body...or do you? And what about the reactions that feel bad but are actually good? How can you tell the difference between a bad reaction that's bad and a bad reaction that's good because it's causing the needed changes or the needed detox? Or is the detox bad because the body can't handle it and the toxins, like metals, will resettle causing more damage? What if the only doctor that takes insurance is not the best or has you take drugs? I can't handle drugs at all. They really mess me up. And I wish doctors would collaborate. Several good ones together are better than one alone.

My naturopath/nutritionist had me take so many tests and helped me a lot but he didn't use standard process supplements and I found that those helped me immensely. He started me off on what I need--how else would I have known that my spleen and thymus were weak and he had me take spleen and thymus glandular but it wasn't until I took Immuplex from Standard Process which has liver, bone, spleen and thymus PMGs that I really saw an improvement. And he didn't know about Rich's methylation protocol, which also helped me immensely.

He also taught me that there's an order to healing. Certain things you have to fix first, such as gut problems, metal problems, hormone problems, after you fix certain problems, only then do you work on the immune problems, then supplementing, etc. I notice that's a mistake a lot of people make is throwing a bunch of things at the problems out of order.
 
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*GG*

senior member
Messages
6,389
Location
Concord, NH
So I stopped this Vit C and Vit D regime and two weeks later, I have a cold! I guess I stopped it too soon.

I do Vitamin D (about 7K IUs) and C year round, not going to cut down on my winter dosage (12K IUs) of Vitamin D for a while longer! Don't want to catch one of those spring colds.

GG
 

u&iraok

Senior Member
Messages
427
Location
U.S.
I do Vitamin D (about 7K IUs) and C year round, not going to cut down on my winter dosage (12K IUs) of Vitamin D for a while longer! Don't want to catch one of those spring colds.

GG

You were smart! Oh well, at least now I know for next year!