VERY interesting article from Dr. Myhill

[Wayne]

Hi Wayne - That is amazing about liposomal vitamin C being just as or even more effective than IV vitamin C. I've read about the use of IV vitamin C in cancer therapy and have often thought if I develop cancer, it will be my go-to remedy. Actually, that's really interesting. I had no idea the liposomal form would be that effective. --- Thanks so much for this suggestion! Hope you are doing okay -- Mary

Hi Mary,

I'm maintaing a separate word processing file as I research liposomal information and products. Here's a notable snippet I saved regarding cancer:

The new hot button anti-cancer supplement is Trans-Resveratrol. Trans-Resveratrol, like Curcumin causes apoptosis (cancer cell death), is fat soluble and extremely difficult to absorb. Studies show Liposomal Resveratrol reaching the blood stream at 10 to 20 times the levels of regular oral administration.

This is really a fascinating area of research for me because I've long considered doing a "Salt C" program, which is what someone with Lyme used successfully to eradicate his Lyme disease of many years standing. It calls for doing 15 grams of Both Vitamin C and salt a day. That much C can cause GI distress, but because the lipsomal C goes more directly into the bloodstream and cells (absorption rate of 93% vs. 20% for oral C), you only need about 1/4 as much, and it goes where you want it (inside the cells).

Some people hypothesize CFS may be caused by a virus that hangs out inside the cells, and may be the reason some people with chronic health considtions who start taking Lipo C start feeling better (kills the virus inside the cells). Just a hypothesis, but there's a of reports out there of people feeling better shortly after starting it. My plan is to learn to make my own, and make it much more cheaply than it costs online. And then start experimenting with other vitamins, minerals, herbs, amino acids, etc.

BTW, a country doctor in North Carolina in the late 1940's during the polio epidemic decided to experiment with IV Vitamin C to treat the kids with polio he was seeing. He cured 60 out of 60 children within 2-3 days. His published results is what got Linus Pauling interested in Vitamin C. I find it amazing that we now have this therapy at our fingertips with liposomal technology, not only with Vit. C, but with many other compounds as well. There's apparently a liposomal curcumin available on the market now, which would also be good for a cancer treatment.

 

[Mary]

Radio - I've been taking niacinamide (500 mg.) which I believe is the same thing as nicotinamide, so maybe I'll try upping my dose - thanks for the info!

Mary

 

[Mary]

Hi Wayne - thanks to you I've spent the morning looking up first liposomal magnesium, then vitamin C and glutathione, and then stumbled across websites which tell how to make your own much more cheaply. Amazing! The magnesium I saw on-line was going to cost $40 for a month.

I can see why this is so fascinating for you. I've never heard of the "Salt C" program. Is it supposed to be effective for viruses as well as lyme?

I have read about Linus Pauling and his IV vit. C research re cancer (and how it was dismissed by an insanely flawed Mayo Clniic study in the 1980's which used oral vit. C instead of IV vit. C - almost unbelievable). But I had never heard of the North Carolina doctor who treated children with polio using IV vitamin C. If indeed CFS is linked to a virus (as Dr. Chia and many others believe), then liposomal vit. C might help, definitely worth trying.

I now want to make my own liposomal vit. C and magnesium (and maybe glutathione, and and and...) I read about using an ultrasonic cleaner to do it (and saw a video) and then read about someone who just used an immersion blender and supposedly had good results. So I will probably try the immersion blender first as that is what I have on hand.

Thanks again for putting me onto this track!

Mary

 

[brenda]

I tried my own liposomal C for a few months last year - its very easy to make, but did not notice any change. However l will give it another go.

 

[Mary]

Brenda - how did you make it? Did you use an immersion blender, or the ultrasonic cleaner method, or some other method?

I'm sorry to hear it didn't help you!

Mary

 

[brenda]

@Mary l used the ultrasonic cleaner. I read somewhere that a blender is not a good idea but l can't remember why.

 

[Mary]

Thanks, Brenda!

 

[Wayne]

I've never heard of the "Salt C" program. Is it supposed to be effective for viruses as well as lyme?

Hi Mary, I'm happy to hear you're finding the liposomal information interesting as well. Perhaps you, Brenda and I can learn from each other's experience. I'm "feeling" the implications could be huge for me. It just seems if you can get large amounts of Vitamin C inside the cells much more effeciently, along with magnesium, it has the potential to be a potent combination, something I'm looking forward to trying.

Regarding the Salt / C program, I'm sure there are lots of references online, but the website at lymephotos.com is the one where I got my idea from to use it for treating Lyme. What I gathered from it, is that it is very effective against microscopic parasites, something that I suspect many pwCFS are unknowingly dealing with. A slight word of caution; some of the photos at the website are a tad creepy (but could be worse).

Wayne

 

[Mary]

Hi Wayne - I'm learning from both of you already! I'm actually placing a swanson's order today so will have the raw materials, guess I will have to buy an ultrasonic cleaner. I've read on-line both that an ultrasonic cleaner is, and that it isn't, required, but I'm guessing it probably does help with the encapsulation. Here's one I found on Amazon that got good reviews, and also has a removable stainless steel insert (and one reviewer was using it to make liposomal vit. C):
http://www.amazon.com/Ivation-IVUC9...ble-Auto-Shut-off/dp/B00E5PCX1A/ref=pd_cp_e_3
I got an Amazon gift certificate for Christmas, so woo hoo! Ahh ..... I think I'd prefer a train set or microscope or something fun, but what the heck.

Do you have lyme? I don't (at least I'm pretty sure don't - I don't really have lyme symptoms, just classic CFS - PEM, impaired immune system) It does make sense that liposomal vit. C would make the Salt C protocol more bearable. I saw a book on Amazon called The Salt/C Plus Protocol for Lyme Infection which might be helpful.

I keep thinking my problem is low intracellular magnesium, I've had such low levels on hair analysis - but Dr. Chia says a virus, who knows! but it would seem the liposomal C and magnesium would help with both of these issues.

Yes, the photos were a bit creepy ... fascinating too in a yucky way!

One more thing - I read that it's best not to use buffered vit. C - it keeps it from dissolving properly.

Mary

 

[Mij]

My understanding is that viruses cells involved in viral RNA replication actively consume ATP, thereby reducing cytoplasmic ATP levels.

According to Dr. Myhill, ATP is "highly" dependent on magnesium.

 

[Radio]

My understanding is that viruses cells involved in viral RNA replication actively consume ATP, thereby reducing cytoplasmic ATP levels.

According to Dr. Myhill, ATP is "highly" dependent on magnesium.

Minerals are needed to detox and activate the system, Methylation is needed to silence the viruses.

 

[brenda]

@Wayne l am thinking l may not have taken a high enoughdose in the past and would like to add salt for Lyme as l am not even treating it atm but my bp is unstable. I need some more C as l have buffered then l am ready to rock

 

[Mary]

My understanding is that viruses cells involved in viral RNA replication actively consume ATP, thereby reducing cytoplasmic ATP levels.

According to Dr. Myhill, ATP is "highly" dependent on magnesium.

Mij - Interesting - that's new information for me re viruses consuming ATP (almost feels like we're doomed here ). Dr. Myhill does believe that sufficient magnesium is required to convert ADP to ATP, all the more reason to have sufficient levels of magnesium in the cell. Now what causes or caused low intracellular magnesium is unknown - maybe viruses, chronic stress? I don't know. But raising low magnesium levels does seem to be crucial to regaining one's health.

So many pieces of this puzzle!

 

[Radio]

Mij - Interesting - that's new information for me re viruses consuming ATP (almost feels like we're doomed here ). Dr. Myhill does believe that sufficient magnesium is required to convert ADP to ATP, all the more reason to have sufficient levels of magnesium in the cell. Now what causes or caused low intracellular magnesium is unknown - maybe viruses, chronic stress? I don't know. But raising low magnesium levels does seem to be crucial to regaining one's health.

So many pieces of this puzzle!

Here is another piece to the CFS/ME puzzle...

The Missing Connection, NAD synthesis:Tryptophan to quinolinate pathway
Tryptophan to quinolinate pathway is linked to the NAD deficiency. NADH recycling is a contributing factor in the CFS/ME progression. Viruses can affect the NAD Synthesis in the Kynurenine pathway. This is the reason why it's import to supplement to bypass the weak NAD synthesis. The MAO gene defect is very common in the CFS/ME community and contributes in the metabolites of the NAD deficiency.
We know quinolinic and interferon gamma are elevated and need to be reduced. The key factor is the NAD+ deficiency, as well as the NADH recycling, anaerobic metabolism (ADP to ATP) imbalance. Supplementing with Free form Tryptophan, Nicotinamide, NAD+ or NADH with R- lipoic acid can compensate for the NAD+ deficiency. Riboflavin is needed for the monoamine oxidase enzyme, which functions in this metabolism.

NAD synthesis , Tryptophan to quinolinate pathway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide_adenine_dinucleotide
Kynurenine Pathway Metabolites in Humans: Disease and Healthy States
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3195227/
The Fate of Pyruvate
http://www.hippocampus.org/homework-help/Biology/Central Catabolic Pathways_The Fate of Pyruvate and NADH.html

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/how-i-recovered-from-cfs.27280/

 

[Mij]

Mij - Interesting - that's new information for me re viruses consuming ATP (almost feels like we're doomed here ). Dr. Myhill does believe that sufficient magnesium is required to convert ADP to ATP, all the more reason to have sufficient levels of magnesium in the cell. Now what causes or caused low intracellular magnesium is unknown - maybe viruses, chronic stress? I don't know. But raising low magnesium levels does seem to be crucial to regaining one's health.

So many pieces of this puzzle!

Yes Mary, for me it was/is a virus. When I had my consultation for my organic acid's test it was stated that my results indicated a viral problem because my energy production was ridiculously low, he asked if I was out of breath from walking. He told me to keep taking magnesium injections. I've been tested for viruses but nothing comes back positive.

I've been using Ancient Minerals magnesium gel for the last couple of days, I feel like a dry salted cracker but the relaxation feeling I get is similar to the injections so hopefully it is absorbing into the cells as they claim.

 

[Mij]

Here is another piece to the CFS/ME puzzle...

The Missing MAO Connection, NAD synthesis:Tryptophan to quinolinate pathway
Tryptophan to quinolinate pathway is link to the NAD deficiency, NADH recycling is a contributing factor in the CFS/ME progression. Viruses can affect the NAD Synthesis in the Kynurenine pathway. This is the reason why it's import to supplement to bypass the weak NAD synthesis. The MAO gene defect is very common in the CFS/ME community and contributes in the metabolites of the NAD deficiency.
We know quinolinic and interferon gamma are elevated and need to be reduced. The key factor is the NAD+ deficiency, as well as the NADH recycling, anaerobic metabolism (ADP to ATP) imbalance. Nicotinamide, NAD+ or NADH with R- lipoic acid can compensate for the NAD+ deficiency. Riboflavin is needed for the monoamine oxidase enzyme, which functions in this metabolism.

NAD synthesis , Tryptophan to quinolinate pathway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide_adenine_dinucleotide
Kynurenine Pathway Metabolites in Humans: Disease and Healthy States
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3195227/
The Fate of Pyruvate
http://www.hippocampus.org/homework-help/Biology/Central Catabolic Pathways_The Fate of Pyruvate and NADH.html

Thanks for this info, Radio. I've read your treatment protocol and have/am taking most of what you recommend, not all at the same time mind you, but on and off. I'm interested in NAD B-3 coenzymated from Source Natural.

 

[Mary]

Thanks, Radio. The MAO gene defect is new info for me. This whole issue is so complex. I do one piece at a time (e.g., getting folate levels up and then having to up potassium and so on).

I've ordered a coenzymated B complex from Swanson's which has the coenzymated riboflavin, but maybe would need to add something like the NAD B-3 from Source Naturals that Mij mentions.

I've taken R-lipoic acid in the past but not for several years so will consider that also.

I am in the process of making the magnesium/bicarbonate water I wrote about above. It is ridiculously easy - will see if it helps!

Mary

 

[Shellbell]

Hello everyone! I just wanted to jump in on the conversation about the liposomal vitamin C. I have been taking it now for a month. It has eliminated much of my body pain so far. I feel an increase in energy during different parts of my day. My moods are slightly better, but I am also taking Kavinace along with it to help with sleep and anxiety.

I started off with Liv On labs brand, but my doctor is now having me make my own. I am using the ultrasonic cleaner and use sunflower lecithin from Swanson. I also am using sodium ascorbate from Now. I found that I was reacting negatively to the one I was making and found that we were instructed to use too much lecithin. We cut the lecithin in half. It should work fine now. It had to do with powder vs granules. You use less if you have the powder. Yet some weren't reacting to the higher dose. Mainly those of us who have fluoroquinolone toxicity were effected.

Brenda, how much were you taking each day? The amount is important. My doc is having me take 6,000mg a day and working up to 12,000 to 15,000 mgs daily. I started with only 1,000mg and felt terrible at first, but it went away within a couple of days. Each increase, I don't feel so hot, but then again, the feeling goes away. 6,000 mg is considered maintenance dosing and higher amounts are therapeutic. Lower doses won't work as it isn't saturating the cells enough.

I just started doing high dose IV C with a Meyer's type cocktail in addition to replenish what is missing in my body. I can't absorb oral supplements yet with the exception of the lipisomal C. I have to say, I am tolerating treatments better now than ever. This is a plus as I used to be so reactive to everything!

Anyway, I am glad to see a discussion on this! I think this is definitely something to consider.

 

[brenda]

@Shellbell l was taking 1gm not enough l guess.

 

[Shellbell]

You definitely need more! My IVs have 100,000mg in them. As far as the lipsomal C, I would dose higher on days you are feeling really stressed. You won't overdose, but I would definitely work your way up. I don't think that this alone will cure everything, but I do believe it will help a lot.

The practitioner I am seeing that is doing my IVs has been using C for many years. She, herself, was diagnosed stage 4 melanoma and used the C and other nutrients to turn her immune system back on. Initially her doctor told her she could try that, but he also told her to go home and get her affairs in order because she didn't have much time. She is now in remission!!! She sends her oncologist flowers every year on the date he laid the bad news on her. That was 17 years ago!!! To her, illness is all about the immune system, no matter what you are sick with.