Vegepa (Omega 3 & 6) - good idea or not?

[u&iraok]

Thank you but I don't understand why it can be worse...Do you?

No, I sure don't. I'm not too knowledgeable in these things. I'm sure you know more than me.

The only thing I know is that, per Rich, when the methlylation cycle is dysfunctional it causes a whole host of problems and cascades of events and problems converting, etc. Rich would give the details as to what would happen but I don't have a memory for details. Definitely when glutathione is depleted oxidative stress is created.

All I know is what Rich says...:

Hi, Sasha and the group.
It is known that the unsaturated (essential) fatty acids are the most vulnerable molecules in the cells to oxidative damage.
One is that so long as the state of oxidative stress is present, there will continue to be damage to the unsaturated fatty acids. Furthermore, the formation of lipid peroxides from these fatty acids is a chain reaction process, which feeds on itself. Therefore, while it should be beneficial to supplement these fatty acids, there needs to be a parallel effort to stop the oxidative stress. Otherwise, the situation might actually become worse from the supplementation.

...and this study:

Metab Syndr Relat Disord. 2011 Oct;9(5):397-401. doi: 10.1089/met.2010.0140. Epub 2011 May 11.
Oxidative stress is activated by free fatty acids in cultured human hepatocytes.
Soardo G1, Donnini D, Domenis L, Catena C, De Silvestri D, Cappello D, Dibenedetto A, Carnelutti A, Bonasia V, Pagano C, Sechi LA.
Author information

• 1Liver and Hypertension Unit, Department of Pathology and Experimental and Clinical Medicine, University of Udine, Udine, Italy. soardo.giorgio.@aoud.sanita.fvg.it

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) is strongly associated to oxidative stress, metabolic syndrome, and cardiovascular risk. Hepatocytes overloaded with fatty acids (FA) could generate substances that interfere with endothelial function, providing a potential explanation for this association. We have investigated the response of cultured human hepatoblastoma cells (Hep-G2) that were exposed to FA by measuring markers of oxidative stress and thrombosis and expression of the insulin receptor.
METHODS:
Hep-G2 cells were conditioned with a mixture of FA with or without N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC), glutathione (GSH), or adiponectin (ADN). After 7 days, we measured intracellular GSH (iGSH), nitric oxide (NO), malondialdehyde (MDA), and tissue plasminogen inhibitor-1 (PAI-1). Real-time polymerase chain reaction (PCR) was used to determine gene expression of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) and insulin receptor (INS-R).
RESULTS:
Exposure to FA decreased iGSH and NO levels in Hep-G2 cells and increased MDA and PAI-1 production. Gene expression of iNOS and INS-R in Hep-G2 cells was decreased by exposure to FA. Co-incubation with NAC and GSH prevented the change of iNOS mRNA levels, but not of INS-R; co-incubation with ADN restored the gene expression of INS-R, but not of i-NOS. ADN prevented also the FA-induced increase in MDA in cultured human endothelial cells.
CONCLUSION:
Exposure to FA activates oxidative stress and production of prothrombotic markers and decreases expression of insulin receptors in cultured human hepatocytes. These effects of FA are partially prevented by ADN and might contribute to the increased cardiovascular risk in patients with NAFLD and metabolic syndrome

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21561340

 

[Biarritz13]

Really interesting study, thank you

 

[AndyPandy]

On advice from my naturopath I started taking Omega 3 Nordic Naturals 2 days ago. Just a drop once a day. Meant to build up to 2 teaspoons a day.

I have been experiencing worse pain, SOB and fatigue.

Hard to tell at this stage if it is the Omega 3 or something else going on.

I am very sensitive to meds/supplements so it might be the Omega 3.

The reason I was advised to take Omega 3 was because I tried to increase CoQ10 from 75mg a day to 150mg a day and reacted badly to it (severe fatigue, chest pain, body pain, very limited mobility, bedridden, feeling deathly). The naturopath's view was that I should try and increase antiinflammatories before trying to boost CoQ10 again.

Having read this thread I am now wondering if I should increase methylation supps before using Omega 3. I will give it a bit longer with the Omega 3 in case there is something else going on - like overdoing it

Always grateful for the wealth of information shared on PR!

 

[Hip]

Note that this thread about VegEPA, a special marine oil that contains EPA, but no DHA. VegEPA also contains a small amount of GLA.

It is not about normal omega 3 fish oil, which contains both EPA and DHA.



Prof Basant Puri found that VegEPA is helpful for some ME/CFS patients. More info here.

 

[AndyPandy]

@Hip well I posted a comment here because this thread also contained comments on Omega 3s more generally and I was interested in Rich's views.

 

[Hip]

@Hip well I posted a comment here because this thread also contained comments on Omega 3s more generally and I was interested in Rich's views.

No problem AndyPandy, I just wanted to make it clear for anyone reading this thread that VegEPA is not the same as normal fish oil or cod liver oil.

Professor Basant Puri found that VegEPA had significant beneficial effects for a subset of ME/CFS patients. I am actually going to be trying VegEPA soon.

Prof Puri details his theory about why the EPA works for ME/CFS in his book:

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome — a Natural Way to Treat M.E. Published: 2005.

According to Prof Puri (page 53 of his book), pure EPA helps with sleep by promoting sleep mediators, EPA is antiviral against viruses such as EBV, EPA is immunomodulatory (EPA in converted into interferons).

According to Puri, in a study of 20 ME/CFS patients taking 8 capsules of VegEPA daily (equivalent to 2240 mg of EPA and 72 mg of gamma linolenic acid), 17 out of 20 experienced a "remarkable level of improvement within 3 months."



Here are a few of Professor Puri's published studies on EPA for ME/CFS:

Eicosapentaenoic acid-rich essential fatty acid supplementation in chronic fatigue syndrome associated with symptom remission and structural brain changes

The use of eicosapentaenoic acid in the treatment of chronic fatigue syndrome



Here are some other pure EPA (or mostly EPA) fish oils:

Country Life: Omega 3 Mood — 180 softgels each containing EPA 500 mg and DHA 75 mg — $37
Cost for daily dose of 2 grams of EPA = $0.82


OmegaVia: EPA 500 — 120 softgels each containing EPA 500 mg and DHA 0 mg — $29
Cost for daily dose of 2 grams of EPA = $0.97


Mind 1st: PuraEPA — 60 softgels each containing EPA 300 mg, DHA 0 mg, GLA 24 mg, vit E 1 mg — $12 (£10)
Cost for daily dose of 2 grams of EPA = $1.33


Igennus: VegEPA — 60 softgels each containing EPA 280 mg, DHA 0 mg, GLA 9 mg, vit E 1 mg — $14
Cost for daily dose of 2 grams of EPA = $1.67


Igennus: Pharmepa RESTORE — 60 softgels each containing EPA 500 mg, DHA 0 mg, vit E 5 mg — $26
Cost for daily dose of 2 grams of EPA = $1.73

 

[PatJ]

I tried to increase CoQ10 from 75mg a day to 150mg a day and reacted badly to it (severe fatigue, chest pain, body pain, very limited mobility, bedridden, feeling deathly).

When I tried to increase CoQ10 from 100mg/day to 200mg/day I found that my already low BP dropped by roughly 10 points (systolic and diastolic). My fatigue increased considerably. I would have had the other symptoms you described if I had spent more time upright. Maybe your reaction was due to a BP drop?

 

[AndyPandy]

@Hip. Interesting. Would love to hear how it goes if you try it.

@PatJ I don't think the CoQ10 caused low BP in my case. It was more like the symptoms when I took statins, but with chest pain added in! More like I was being "poisoned".