UK documentaries investigate Work Capability Assessment/Atos Undercover

[Firestormm]

Don't contributory claimants after a year reclaim under income assessed, Currer? It's means-tested sure but if they have no other/little other income they aren't kicked off the benefit completely are they?

 

[Esther12]

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/esa-time-limit-wr2011-ia-revised-apr2011.pdf

Ta.

The rationale is just hilarious.

Rationale for intervention
4.
Annual expenditure on ESA and incapacity benefits is forecast to be in the region of £11bn in 2014/152. ESA for those in the WRAG was never intended to be a long-term benefit except for the most severely ill or disabled people for whom work is not a viable option. Those people are being protected and are not affected by this measure.
5.
People can presently qualify for unlimited contributory ESA on the basis of a small amount of National Insurance paid3. This change supports a move towards simplification of contributory benefits and a fairer benefit system.
6.
Government intervention is required to underline the principle that those claiming contributory ESA, who are placed in the WRAG are expected to move towards work with the right support. ESA is intended to be a short-term benefit for the majority of claimants.

The chart which shows how the changes affect those in the bottom 20% of incomes on page 11 is pretty sick. For those in the bottom 10% of incomes, losing £35 a week is no joke.

The whole thing is pretty sick.

 

[Esther12]

Don't contributory claimants after a year reclaim under income assessed, Currer? It's means-tested sure but if they have no other/little other income they aren't kicked off the benefit completely are they?

It places people with partners/dating/etc in a really difficult position. Their income become dependent upon not living with anyone who is earning any money! No consideration on how that will impact the lives of the sick and disabled in their CBA. Bastards.

The income that removes one from elligability is really low. Even if one partner is only able to work part-time, that can be it. For couples where both have health problems, but one is trying to do some work, this going to make their lives even more difficult.

The reforms are so brutalising.

 

[currer]

Don't contributory claimants after a year reclaim under income assessed, Currer? It's means-tested sure but if they have no other/little other income they aren't kicked off the benefit completely are they?

I dont want to upset people or start a panic. I do not know what the details of this latest "reform" (dreadful word) are, and benefit regulations can work in unpredictable and unexpected ways.
Everyone will be in different circumstances and the new regulations will apply differently to each.
I dont know what the income limits are for disabled people if they are to be means tested.
I do not know whether they will be the same as social security means tests for healthy unemployed.
If you are concerned about these changes it is best to find out exactly how you individually will be affected and not rely on what another person has surmised. i do think that both the healthy population and the disabled population have not yet become aware of the impact of these "reforms". I wonder what will happen when it sinks in.
I believe that WRAG is time limited to a year, and after that means testing will apply, probably both on income and savings.

The benefits and work website is the best for this information, as it keeps up to date http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

Because these regulations are brutal, they are being challenged, including by the BMA. So I hope they can be modified.

We dont want Briish towns to have a ring of shanty towns around each one made out of old cardboard and corrugated iron like some South American slum, do we?

 

[Esther12]

If you have capital of over £16,000, then you're intelligible for means tested ESA. Any savings over £6,000 lead to a reduction in payment.

 

[currer]

Found these two items:-

Asset rule for ESA(IR)

In order to qualify for Income Related ESA, your savings and assets must not exceed £16,000.
In addition, for every £250 in excess of £6000, there will be a £1 deduction from any benefit payable.
Example
You have £10,000 in savings and/or assets. The excess is £4000 (£10,000 - £6000). The deduction is £16 (£4000 / £250).


24 hour work rule for ESA(IR)
In order to qualify for Income Related ESA, your partner must not be in remunerative work for more than 24hours/week.
There are some exceptions to this rule.

• childminding done in your partner's home
• voluntary work or work done for a charity or voluntary organisation in return for payment to cover your expenses.
• attendance on a training scheme for which a training allowance is paid
• receiving assistance under the New Deal self-employment route
• work as a councillor
• caring for a foster child or providing respite care in your partner's home
• being in receipt of a Sports Council National Lottery award (and no other payment for that sporting activity)
• duties undertaken by part-time firemen, auxiliary coastguards, part-time lifeboat crews, members of a territorial or reserve force.

Your partner will not be classed as being in remunerative work if he or she is-

• mentally or physically disabled and has reduced earnings or works reduced hours as a result of that disability
• involved in a trade dispute
• regularly and substantially caring for someone who is in receipt of Attendance Allowance or the highest or middle rate of the care component of Disability Living Allowance.
• in receipt of Carers Allowance
• living in a care home, an Abbeyfield home or an independent hospital and requires personal care

 

[currer]

It places people with partners/dating/etc in a really difficult position. Their income become dependent upon not living with anyone who is earning any money! No consideration on how that will impact the lives of the sick and disabled in their CBA. Bastards.

The income that removes one from elligability is really low. Even if one partner is only able to work part-time, that can be it. For couples where both have health problems, but one is trying to do some work, this going to make their lives even more difficult.

The reforms are so brutalising.

Esther it could be that work up to 24 hours per week will not count. See above post. But it is hard to get accurate information about all the details of how ESA will work in practice. And before anyone worries about their own situation it is important to know all the facts.

 

[Esther12]

And before anyone worries about their own situation it is important to know all the facts.

That's true - thanks for posting the info for people. (I was counting 24 hours as part time, and it would certainly be a struggle to support two on a low hourly wage when only able to do that amount of work, but it could be okay for others). It also seems like things are still in a state of flux, so things could well change by the time that people have to face moving to income related ESA.

I'm doubtful that things will improve though.

 

[Firestormm]

Yes. Thank you Currer. I have been reading of people getting letters after a year on Contribution-based. Some are able to switch, some are not. Best to ring and find out perhaps ahead of time.

It's a really difficult one. It seems that whilst they no longer afford preference to couples for tax purposes and opted for the individual assessment route - under this system they want to include a partners earnings and status. Seems 'odd' and unfair to me.

We're back to ideals again. Ideally the WRAG was intended to be a short-term 'holding tank' whilst greater support was afforded to move people into work.

Reality is that more and more people are being shifted here from IB and elsewhere when they ought really to be in the 'support group'. And importantly, there is very little sign - I have heard nothing - about additional support that was promised for people in WRAG.

And of course people in WRAG receive less in benefits than people in the Support Group.

I've been in WRAG (only for my NI Contributions) for 4 years now. I have never been contacted by Job Centre for support and retraining/whatever.

If I felt I was able to work and be productive I would ring them up to complain. I would nevertheless be interested to learn what experiences people have had with the retraining/support if indeed it has taken place.

 

[currer]

Note - the work rule applies to partners of claimants - not claimants - so is a relaxation of the usual means testing regulations - if I have interpreted correctly.

 

[Firestormm]

Reply from Ed Millipede to Sonia Paulton:

Dear Ms Poulton,

Thank you for your correspondence regarding the Work Capability Assessment, and my apologies for the delay in replying.

Disabled people need support and compassion, and the Labour Party believes in a welfare state that fulfils this principle.

The previous Conservative Government took the opposite approach and left many disabled people on Incapacity Benefit with little support to return to work where possible. It is also important to separate out ill health and disability from the decision not to work, which is taken by a distinct minority.

For these reasons, the previous Labour Government introduced the Work Capability Assessment, and I am supportive of the principles behind this test.

However, I share some of the concerns that have been expressed about the test by you, along with many charities, disability groups and healthcare professionals.

These concerns, the high percentage of appeals, and Professor Malcolm Harrington’s expert reviews have shown that the test must be improved. The Government needs to listen to Professor Harrington’s advice, especially when his third review for 2012 comes out.

We have also forced a vote in Parliament on the need to reduce the human cost of the wrong decisions that result from the WCA in its current form.

Given the importance of this issue, I am keen that you discuss this further with the Labour Party and share with us some of the experiences of people going through the WCA that you have collected.

Anne McGuire, my Shadow Minister for Disabled People, would be happy to arrange a meeting in order to do so.

Thank you again for taking the time to get in touch on this issue.

Yours sincerely,

Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP

http://socialwelfareunion.org/archives/2067

Posted: 21 August 2012

 

[Esther12]

Ta Fire.

I think I prefer the Conservative on disability - at least they seem to realise that they're making the lives of the sick and disabled worse, and doing so in order to save money. I fear that Labour are genuinely deluded about the impact that their policies have had, and genuinely think that providing resources for those with health problems to spend on improving their quality of life is some sort of 'trap'.

 

[Simon]

Thanks for the letter, Fire

The previous Conservative Government took the opposite approach and left many disabled people on Incapacity Benefit with little support to return to work where possible. It is also important to separate out ill health and disability from the decision not to work, which is taken by a distinct minority.

Don't forget that it was Labour that devised this scheme and gave the contract to ATOS, happy to accept it's computer-driven assessment system without any evidence it actually assessed people's ability to work. The Coalition then joined in the fun by restricting contribution-based WRAG to 12 months. Labour, and others in the Lords tried unsucessfully to increase this to 24 months, but I don't think Labour actually opposed the principle of time-limiting WRAG, even if claimants remained too ill to work.

Let's just hope that Labour are sincere in their professed desire to make the system work for those that need it.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Labour are a bunch of two bit shyter smuck gits, to be blunt
they were hand in glove with this ATOS scam, they were hand in glove with the attacks on the disabled in th media
they are JACKALS who have sod all to do with what the Labour Party was created to be.
it's a cheap perversion, a racket
they were cheaper and easier to buy than the Conservatives, that's the only damn difference and they should rot in Hell for selling out their principles as well as their people.
*spits!*

As I said some time ago, the Sheeple were eager ot have a new scapegoat to blame for their misfortunes, since the media can't abuse gays, jews, blacks or such, they needed a new whipping boy, so it was the disabled.
And no one will give a damn until the body count piles up too high
SAME AS HAS HAPPENED REPEATEDLY!
and assholes not only fell for it, but went along with it and refused to admit it, refused to see the lines of poor bastards going back into history who've bene thrown to the wolves to divert attention from the REAL enemy, the real scum: the merdestains at the top of the totem pole!
Meh!!

Time after time...
Stop thinking the "government will save us", they are the ENEMY, they're up to their necks in this
if it gets out they were behind this cull of the disabled, "big names" will fall, so they're all too busy saving their own asses and they'll whine and please and cry they didn't know and nothing gets done, they delay delay ignore and obfuscate and sitll more die. You cna see it happening already, it's like the Weasels, they lay down ground work, a "parachute", a "rat line", their excuses to escape punishment and nice comfy jobs with corproations they'd happily turn you into SOAP for, long as they get their nice cushy pay outs for life.
They walk out of the Front Bench of Parliament into big juicy contracts, usually several or even DOZENS of 'em.

Tony The Bastard Blair earns £12 to 20 million a year! Know how much tax he pays?
From £20 million over two years he paid a total of £470,000 a in tax. Roughly 20%!!
THAT is the reality.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol.../Tony-Blair-and-the-8million-tax-mystery.html

 

[hurtingallthetimet]

hello i dont understand any of the way they do things...i have folder hubby had me keep stuff in when i was trying to file..i didnt understand questions...when id ask lady she was nice but it was strange...i recall cause i gave fun fact to kids...i didnt understand lifting part...she said 2 gallen milk equals 8 pounds..and to go by if i could lift with one hand ...and i cant without hlep bending legs back using other hand etc...and she said make sure put number so i did...i think she was frustrated when i didnt know how much i could lift with one hand and guess that was her fun fact....others things i didnt understand well either but since i gave fun fact to kids i remember the milk thing...

i didnt have anyone physically with me at time to fill out...but theyd give me number to call and gvie answers too...i dont understand alot of it and it probably has nothing to do with your post but made me think of it....cant remember what i did two minutes ago but i can tell you 2 gallon milk equals 8 pounds...lol

 

[hurtingallthetimet]

hello i dont understand any of the way they do things...i have folder hubby had me keep stuff in when i was trying to file..i didnt understand questions...when id ask lady she was nice but it was strange...i recall cause i gave fun fact to kids...i didnt understand lifting part...she said 2 gallen milk equals 8 pounds..and to go by if i could lift with one hand ...and i cant without hlep bending legs back using other hand etc...and she said make sure put number so i did...i think she was frustrated when i didnt know how much i could lift with one hand and guess that was her fun fact....others things i didnt understand well either but since i gave fun fact to kids i remember the milk thing...

i didnt have anyone physically with me at time to fill out...but theyd give me number to call and gvie answers too...i dont understand alot of it and it probably has nothing to do with your post but made me think of it....cant remember what i did two minutes ago but i can tell you 2 gallon milk equals 8 pounds...lol