Treating Lyme Disease (Jernigan)

Cort

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(From Wayne - copied to here)

Originally Posted by R**

This past year has been my downward spiral since treatment for lyme. I have come to think of treatment as something to be feared as if my body cannot tolerate it... nothing too extreme, which fits "dysautonomia."
I too have a Lyme diagnosis, and have been trying to determine a prudent course of action. I've been shocked at some of the accounts out there of how hellish it is to go through some of the detoxification that can occur with either antibiotics or alternative methods.
My perspective on all of this has changed since I ran across an article by David Jernigan, DC, who has treated thousands of Lyme patients. I'll just paste a couple of paragraphs from that article:

from Jernigan Article

In truth, a severe Herxheimer reaction is a sign of poor elimination pathway drainage, poor organ support, and poor treatment by your doctor. The bodies of most chronic Lyme sufferers are toxic dumps to start with, therefore, if a doctor does not get the pathways of elimination open and working, the body grows even more toxic as the bacteria begin to die and their toxins dump. Many doctors think good treatment is indicated by the fact that you feel like crap, i.e., worse than usual, which they feel confirms that they have selected an effective antibiotic. Most of my chronically ill patients cannot afford to feel worse just from the treatment. The person with Lyme disease has already suffered enough; they don't need to go through a "herx" just to prove they have Lyme disease.

One of the more popular herbal remedies on the market causes such a severe herx that it is advised that only one drop be taken. Because of my previous Lyme disease books, I have spoken to hundreds of people from all over the world who have taken natural products and/or pharmaceuticals and now not only have their old symptoms but many new symptoms as well. Remember, no matter what you decide to take, whether the resulting herx is a true bacterial die-off or is a direct toxic effect of the remedy/medication, these toxins must be given just as high a priority as the actual infection. Chronic Lyme sufferers do not have adequate detoxification mechanisms to detoxify these Bb toxins.
The entire article (which is rather remarkable in my opinion) can be accessed at:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or start another thread somewhere. I haven't started any threads yet, and don't feel I could figure it out this morning. I will move this later however if this might be getting too off topic here.

Best, Wayne
 
S

SDD1244

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I know I had herxing symptoms with Dr. Jernigan's formulas ! ;) In Dr. Jernigan's book, "Beating Lyme Disease", he really gives you a lot of great information about treating lyme disease and how to handle herxing symptoms. He also has a formula that is specifically designed to "mop" up the dying bacteria.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to an enlightening (IMO) interview with Dr. Zieve at the Pine Tree Clinic and Dr. David Jernigan. I highly recommend:

http://hansacenter.com/lyme-interview.html
 
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I know I had herxing symptoms with Dr. Jernigan's formulas ! ;) In Dr. Jernigan's book, "Beating Lyme Disease", he really gives you a lot of great information about treating lyme disease and how to handle herxing symptoms. He also has a formula that is specifically designed to "mop" up the dying bacteria.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to an enlightening (IMO) interview with Dr. Zieve at the Pine Tree Clinic and Dr. David Jernigan. I highly recommend:

http://hansacenter.com/lyme-interview.html
Two of the three browsers I use regularly, iCab and Safari, suggest there is Malware on the site.

http://google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?tpl=safari&site=pics.bubbled.cn&hl=en
Safe Browsing by Google
Diagnostic page for pics.bubbled.cn
 
S

SDD1244

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ChuckG,

I did a virus and malware scan (Norton 360 and Malwarebytes). The only thing that came up was a tracking cookie, but I'm not sure if it came from the Hansa Center's website.
 

kolowesi

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treating Lyme

Hi, all,

I got a "Trojan horse" warning for the Jernigan site today, Sept 12, 2009. Don't think it's just a cookie.

What was mentioned as far as toxic waste dumps sound like a good thesis to me! I have a willing doctor who is not an LLMD, but who is prescribing antibiotics. I've been on them 6 months and have gone to an alternating schedule so as to spare my liver as much as possible.

My Igenex test was positive, but not CDC positive. Do we have a place on this forum to report Igenex results? Do you think it would be a good idea?

There are some who believe Igenex gives a lot of false positives. I just don't know enough to know whether it's true. Since Lyme Bb is a clinical diagnosis, it's easy to confuse with ME.

I guess there is no reason why a person could not have both ME and Lyme Bb. I had a low-grade fever for 5 years which went away with antibiotics, swollen finger joints initially, blown away immune system after viruses reactivated, l-shaped bacteria in the plasma under darkfield microscope and parasites in the red blood cells under darkfield.

After this time on the high dose antibiotics, my blood is clear of l-shaped and RBC pathogens (for now at least). So I'm thinking I do have Lyme.

Am looking for more threads. Thanks for any help!

Kelly
 
G

Geek2010

Guest
As a person who knows the programmers of the website for hansa center, I can tell you there are no viruses or trojans or any malware on the hansa center site owned by Dr. David Jernigan

However, there are other sites that have the jernigan neutracuetical (sp?) name in them that are not owned or operated by Dr. David Jernigan that could. Make sure you are going to the genuine Hansa Center dot com site and you should never have any problems.
 

Kristen

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Hi guys...starting my Lyme treatment with Dr. Bhakta March First. I will start a thread when i feel a bit better. I will do IV antibiotic, LDN, Flagyl immune and gut support and methylation protocol, and some hormonal support.

K
 

Wayne

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Lyme Article Link

The link for this article by Jernigan posted by Wayne/Cort does not work.......anyone have another link?
Hi Juniemarie,

I tried the link and it didn't work for me either. Here's a new link:

Lyme toxins the primary cause of your symptoms!

When I run into situations like this, I normally copy a fairly long sentence and use an advanced google search. In this case, I took the phrase " .e., worse than usual, which they feel confirms" and inserted it into a google search in the box designated for "this exact wording or phrase:"

I came up with four search results and chose the one above. Another link that might be a little easier to read would be this one.

This is really a good article. Well worth the read. Also, some people have much better luck detoxifying during Lyme dieoff by supplementing with iodine. In fact, it's a critical piece for some.

Best, Wayne
 

Wayne

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Hi guys...starting my Lyme treatment with Dr. Bhakta March First. I will start a thread when i feel a bit better. I will do IV antibiotic, LDN, Flagyl immune and gut support and methylation protocol, and some hormonal support.

K
Thanks for letting us know Kristen. I'll look forward to hearing your updates (and hopefully progress).

Best, Wayne
 

Misfit Toy

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All of this information is so great! Thank you. I know many who suffer with lyme and the treatment is so difficult. I may have it too. I hope not.
 
C

Cloud

Guest
I have been attempting to treat Lyme and Co for about 2 months now. I have a terrible time tolerating the meds, which I knew would be a distinct possibility. Even though I agree that a "herx" reaction is basically an overload of die off toxins, it doesn't necessarily mean the person has a dysfunctional detox system. It may just be too much die off even for the most healthy detox system. In my case, I do have a dysfunctional detox/methylation pathway. I have had this problem since the beginning of this illness many years ago. I know the symptoms are not "herxing" because it happens with many other meds as well that do not cause die off, such as antidepressants. Regardless, I need to be able to tolerate the antibiotics to recover....therefore I am looking into detox and methylation support. I know all about the Yasco protocol and still yet researching other possibilities. I have had a great response to the antibiotics which is very diagnostic....I need to be able to detox the meds to continue. I would like to keep this thread going and appreciate any advice. Thanks all.
 

Wayne

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Detoxification Support with SAM-e, Coffee Enemas

I have been attempting to treat Lyme and Co for about 2 months now. I need to be able to tolerate the antibiotics to recover....therefore I am looking into detox and methylation support. I have had a great response to the antibiotics which is very diagnostic....I need to be able to detox the meds to continue. I would like to keep this thread going and appreciate any advice. Thanks all.
Hi Ross,

I recently discovered that SAM-e works well for me in supporting my methylation cycle and detoxification capabilities. I wrote about some of my experiences on a thread entitled, "SAM-e Acyclovir, Atlas Profilax = Improvement from 3 to 4"

I also recently wrote about how important I feel coffee enemas (CEs) are for my own detoxification / health protocol on a thread entitled, Has anyone read the book "Detox or Die". You might also want to check out the detox forum.

All the best to you Ross as you continue on your Lyme treatment protocol. I hope you find some of the answers you're looking for as far as being able to tolerate and/or detoxify some of the meds that you're taking.

Wayne
 
C

Cloud

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Thanks Wayne, Yea, SAMe makes me feel better than anything I have ever taken...but I cannot continue with it or I end up in that "toxic" place just like with other meds. From what I understand, this seems to be diagnostic of a methylation block. Thanks for the advice and links. I'll check em out.
 
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I got sick in 1986. Diagnosed with CFS in 1988. Five years a go I had positive Lyme Igenex test, my husbands was negative. I've been treating Lyme for the last five years. I've only gotten abot 15% better. I have a really hard time tolerating any of the antibiotics. What I have learned is that for me I have to go slow. When I first started Doxycycline at only 200mg a day it about killed me. I had to stop and switch to something else. Two years later I am now back on Doxycycline 400mg a day. I think I had to get the bacterial load down some so I wouldn't have such a huge die off all at once. My doctor thinks I may have XMRV too. Was tested last Monday though VIP Lab. Should know in a couple of weeks. I was positive to Bartonella too. Also HHV6 and EBV in the past.

I think I have methylation block too because almost ever thing I take makes me really ill. It's very frustrating!
 

Misfit Toy

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Today I just had the igenex testing. The blood. I have had CFS for so long, it's hard to fathom lyme. But if it is, I will not be happy because I can barely tolerate meds. The die off, the yeast, all of it. My liver is a mess and I stay sick due to methylation problems. My friends who have lyme think that it will be awesome if I have a lyme diagnosis. "At least it is not CFS," they say. But I don't see the lyme diagnosis as something to get excited about. I have seen people get really sick from lyme and stay there. The treatments make them completely disabled.
 

Jenny

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Hi Spitfire

I've had several Lyme tests - a couple of Western blots, and the Panel C test from Immunosciences Lab. Only the latter was positive - for borrelia, babesia and erclechia (not spelt right). I've had nearly 3 years of lots of different types of abx, including 12 weeks IV, none of which made the slightest difference.

My doc who originally diagnosed Lyme now says I never had it!

The whole Lyme thing is a confused mess, in my opinion. People on message boards are convinced that because of one particular symptom or group of symptoms they must have borrelia or one of its 'coinfections', but there's often very little hard evidence. Many docs who treat Lyme seem just to select abx at random.

I hope you don't have a Lyme diagnosis!

Jenny
 
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I agree that Lyme is controversial, mostly because there is not a reliable test. Most people are treated just by symptoms. I think if you actually have a positive test though I would treat it. I don't think you can get a false positive, you can get a false negative. My doctor thinks there may be a connection between XMRV and Lyme. He thinks that I'm having problems recovering from Lyme due to the fact I may have XMRV too. Waiting for test results. I do know that I do feel some better since starting antibiotics. I was pretty much house bound and felt like dying every day before starting antibiotics. I don't feel like that anymore on most days.
 
C

Cloud

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My Igenex tests showed marginal Bb results with only 2 bands on the Western Blot. But the Babesia was a definite positive which being a co infection is very suggestive of Bb infection as well. Regardless, Babesia alone can be very nasty. So my GP decided to treat both based on that info. My response to the abx confirms the diagnosis. Even though I have a good response to abx, I can't get beyond about a week without running into detox problems. So, I am working on tolerating the abx and doing (more) detox/methylation work. Any experiences along these lines appreciated.
I understand being happy to get the diagnosis of Lyme after so many years of struggling with a severely debilitating illness that has had no relief in sight. Lyme is treatable for many. One of my closest friends has 90% recovered from what was thought to be severe ME/CFS after 1 year of Lyme Tx. Sure the treatments are hell, but so is the abyss of illness. It's a personal thing for sure. Personally, I think Lyme and Co is but one ingredient in the soup making many of us ill....but it seems to be a very significant ingredient. I too think xmrv is a major player in this mess.
I have always been more into the natural approach....but after years of struggling with very little progress, and watching life pass me by, I have become more willing to go big gun Allopathic treatment. That's just me. But ultimately, I think complimentary medicine is the way to go.