Tracking Symptoms on Freddd's protocol

[Waldemath]

I was on Freddd's protocol for a few months last summer and had to stop because it was too overwhelming. Now I've been on it again for a month and things are going well. I'm also taking hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue which makes a significant difference in my well-being. I don't have a particular question, but I wonder if anyone has any suggestions or observations based on my progress thus far:

Baseline supplements:

Vitamin B Complex (Seeking Health)
Vitamin C (2000 mg)
Vitamin D (5000 IU)
Vitamin E (200 mg)
Zinc (30 mg)
Copper (0.3 mg)
Magnesium (200 mg)
Sunflower Lecithin (1200 mg)
Ashwagandha
Deer Placenta
Hydrocortisone (30 mg)

I added 1000 mcg Methylcobalamin (Enzymatic Therapy). After a few days I seemed to be peeing more often and never felt quite done.

So I added 900 mcg Methylfolate. After a few more days I started getting canker sores on the inside of my cheeks and swollen red bumps on my lips.

I bumped the Methylfolate up to 1400 mcg. One night I woke up with severe pain in my back, though I suspect this was related to emotional and nervous system issues rather than potassium issues.

Still, I added 600 mg Potassium just to be safe.

During the past few nights I have woken up between 1-3 AM with insomnia. This is unusual for me. I'm not concerned about it yet, and I want to wait a week or two to see if it continues.

One thing I have noticed in the past few months is that my gums seem to be receding slightly. I saw that Freddd made a recent post about this. I'm getting Copper from my Zinc supplement.

 

[Waldemath]

Updates:

The insomnia went away after a week. Only happens sporadically now.

I am NOT taking Potassium, Vitamin K, Vitamin A, or Calcium. Not sure if I need to add these.

Switched brands of Methylcobalamin from 1000mcg Enzymatic Therapy to 5000mcg Country Life. I was stable on 1000mcg. The main reason for the switch was to avoid screwing up my teeth and gums with all that sugar. The Country Life uses Xylitol instead. It dissolves MUCH faster, though. Not sure if that's a problem.

I'm still only taking 1400mcg Methylfolate.

I tried introducing 125mcg L-Carnitine Fumarate. I had an Organic Acids test done and my Carnitine levels were very low. The LCF gave me anxiety for 5 days in a row. I didn't take it today.

 

[Johnmac]

As a non-expert, I can't see much wrong.

I had big problems with the LCF (anxiety being #1), as a minority of us do. Basically the dose is way too high for us, & you switch to liquid carnitine - which you can titrate up from very low doses. That's worked for me.

I think @Freddd says that if one supp causes a big problem, that points to where healing is most needed - tho someone may want to express that more clearly. Carnitine attacks ATP rather than methylation, from memory.

 

[Freddd]

I was on Freddd's protocol for a few months last summer and had to stop because it was too overwhelming. Now I've been on it again for a month and things are going well. I'm also taking hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue which makes a significant difference in my well-being. I don't have a particular question, but I wonder if anyone has any suggestions or observations based on my progress thus far:

Baseline supplements:

Vitamin B Complex (Seeking Health)
Vitamin C (2000 mg)
Vitamin D (5000 IU)
Vitamin E (200 mg)
Zinc (30 mg)
Copper (0.3 mg)
Magnesium (200 mg)
Sunflower Lecithin (1200 mg)
Ashwagandha
Deer Placenta
Hydrocortisone (30 mg)

I added 1000 mcg Methylcobalamin (Enzymatic Therapy). After a few days I seemed to be peeing more often and never felt quite done.

So I added 900 mcg Methylfolate. After a few more days I started getting canker sores on the inside of my cheeks and swollen red bumps on my lips.

I bumped the Methylfolate up to 1400 mcg. One night I woke up with severe pain in my back, though I suspect this was related to emotional and nervous system issues rather than potassium issues.

Still, I added 600 mg Potassium just to be safe.

During the past few nights I have woken up between 1-3 AM with insomnia. This is unusual for me. I'm not concerned about it yet, and I want to wait a week or two to see if it continues.

One thing I have noticed in the past few months is that my gums seem to be receding slightly. I saw that Freddd made a recent post about this. I'm getting Copper from my Zinc supplement.

HIWaldemath,

I have had to titrate up to 20mg of copper daily to stop the gum problems and keep my copper from falling lower. My titration with 45mg of Quatrefolic (6S isomer, equive to 30mg Deplin). I have had the leves tested with my doctor. That causes an additional 400mg a day odf potassium to be taken, then adding boron, manganese and molybdenum which increased potassum by another 200+mg and I am at 2600mg of potassium now. I have ZERO full time folate deficiency symptoms and ZERO periodic folate deficiency symptoms. Befoe the ccopper I was stable at 2000-2300mg of potassium. Most getting good healing appear to need 2000+ mg daily to keep the potassium under control and get rid of troubling heart arythmias and such.

 

[Freddd]

As a non-expert, I can't see much wrong.

I had big problems with the LCF (anxiety being #1), as a minority of us do. Basically the dose is way too high for us, & you switch to liquid carnitine - which you can titrate up from very low doses. That's worked for me.

I think @Freddd says that if one supp causes a big problem, that points to where healing is most needed - tho someone may want to express that more clearly. Carnitine attacks ATP rather than methylation, from memory.

Hi Johnmac,

The carnitine is a necessary COFACTOR in generating ATP. It doesn't attack anything. ATP is a cpofactor for methyl;ation. Both are needed for making cells.

 

[Freddd]

Updates:

The insomnia went away after a week. Only happens sporadically now.

I am NOT taking Potassium, Vitamin K, Vitamin A, or Calcium. Not sure if I need to add these.

Switched brands of Methylcobalamin from 1000mcg Enzymatic Therapy to 5000mcg Country Life. I was stable on 1000mcg. The main reason for the switch was to avoid screwing up my teeth and gums with all that sugar. The Country Life uses Xylitol instead. It dissolves MUCH faster, though. Not sure if that's a problem.

I'm still only taking 1400mcg Methylfolate.

I tried introducing 125mcg L-Carnitine Fumarate. I had an Organic Acids test done and my Carnitine levels were very low. The LCF gave me anxiety for 5 days in a row. I didn't take it today.

Hi Waldemath,

I bet you mean 125mg of carnitine. 125mcg is a good starting point for people who get anxiity. 100 mcg is 1 drop of 1 drop of liquid l-carnitine diluted with 32 drops of water. Your extreme reaction is likely caused by hypersensitivity caused by damage from deficiency.

 

[SJB944]

Hi Waldemath,

I bet you mean 125mg of carnitine. 125mcg is a good starting point for people who get anxiity. 100 mcg is 1 drop of 1 drop of liquid l-carnitine diluted with 32 drops of water. Your extreme reaction is likely caused by hypersensitivity caused by damage from deficiency.

I followed @Freddd approach to l-carnitine as I was hypersensitive - diluted 1 drop in 32 drops of water and took one drop a day, built up over months by increasing about 20% daily, and pausing at that level until symptoms settled. Along with the other DQ, it was a major reason for me getting some improvement.

 

[Johnmac]

HIWaldemath,

I have had to titrate up to 20mg of copper daily to stop the gum problems and keep my copper from falling lower. My titration with 45mg of Quatrefolic (6S isomer, equive to 30mg Deplin). I have had the leves tested with my doctor. That causes an additional 400mg a day odf potassium to be taken, then adding boron, manganese and molybdenum which increased potassum by another 200+mg and I am at 2600mg of potassium now. I have ZERO full time folate deficiency symptoms and ZERO periodic folate deficiency symptoms. Befoe the ccopper I was stable at 2000-2300mg of potassium. Most getting good healing appear to need 2000+ mg daily to keep the potassium under control and get rid of troubling heart arythmias and such.

So @Freddd, the standard recommendation for 2mg/day of copper to correct deficiency is too low, yes?

I'm fairly sure I have copper deficiency from too much zinc (I'm in Cambodia so can't test, but have many -Cu symptoms), & have been taking daily "copper 2 mg (as copper gluconate)".

 

[Freddd]

So @Freddd, the standard recommendation for 2mg/day of copper to correct deficiency is too low, yes?

I'm fairly sure I have copper deficiency from too much zinc (I'm in Cambodia so can't test, but have many -Cu symptoms), & have been taking daily "copper 2 mg (as copper gluconate)".

@Johnmac,

I took 2mg in a multi mineral for past 25 years. Clearly it was not enough for pent up healing. I reduced by zinc to 42.5mg a day which is half of what it had crept up to over the years with 5mg here and 5 mg there. 50mg a day was the lowest even suspected in one case. In all the ones where they pinned it down, it was in excess of 200mg and has high as 400mg a day.

 

[Johnmac]

@Johnmac,

I took 2mg in a multi mineral for past 25 years. Clearly it was not enough for pent up healing. I reduced by zinc to 42.5mg a day which is half of what it had crept up to over the years with 5mg here and 5 mg there. 50mg a day was the lowest even suspected in one case. In all the ones where they pinned it down, it was in excess of 200mg and has high as 400mg a day.

Thanks @Freddd. You lost me on the last 2 sentences. Could you kindly clarify?

 

[Freddd]

Thanks @Freddd. You lost me on the last 2 sentences. Could you kindly clarify?

One of the papers I read was a set of case histories of people recovering from copper deficiencies. The doctors doing it (in the UK) were trying to pin down what caused the copper deficiencies in the subjects. In looking at zinc as an agent of causing copper deficiency, only one person of the studied group had a POSSIBLE cause of 50mg of zinc daily, and this was on the basis of elimination of other possible causes as they could find no other possible cause.

In those cases where they could pin down the cause as being excess zinc, the people were taking 200mg/day or more and even up to 400mg/day. Copper, manganese, iron and some others can all interfere with each other in absorption. When a person is trying to balance out what they are doing, which is trying to have a functional and non-problem causing dose of each item, it can be made considerably more difficult by many other things the person is also taking.

So just as accumulated unconverted folic acid can block effectiveness of l-methylfolate, zinc can both compete with copper for absorption and/or block it in the body. As there are also other metals or minerals that also can compete, it can take multiple changes sometimes to come to a better balance in the body.

 

[Waldemath]

Hi Waldemath,

I bet you mean 125mg of carnitine. 125mcg is a good starting point for people who get anxiity. 100 mcg is 1 drop of 1 drop of liquid l-carnitine diluted with 32 drops of water. Your extreme reaction is likely caused by hypersensitivity caused by damage from deficiency.

Oh wow, you're right. I had even cut it down to 1/8th of a pill (62.5mg) and I think my body is reacting very strongly to it. I'm clearly undergoing massive healing, but it's overwhelming. It seems like my appetite has suddenly gone and I've been experiencing nausea. Granted, there are other emotional things going on in my life that are likely contributing, and it's all connected. I'm just wondering if the carnitine could have to do with the nausea and appetite suppression.

Is there a particular brand of liquid carnitine I should look for?

 

[Johnmac]

Thankyou Fred - got it.

I think I got copper deficient recently on doses of 50-150mg of zinc, over several months for pyroluria. I had a lot of the symptoms, which faded on taking copper.

I didn't realise manganese & iron interfered with each other too. I assume that means you should take them apart.

You said "and some others", so I'll try & look up a list.

All the best...

One of the papers I read was a set of case histories of people recovering from copper deficiencies. The doctors doing it (in the UK) were trying to pin down what caused the copper deficiencies in the subjects. In looking at zinc as an agent of causing copper deficiency, only one person of the studied group had a POSSIBLE cause of 50mg of zinc daily, and this was on the basis of elimination of other possible causes as they could find no other possible cause.

In those cases where they could pin down the cause as being excess zinc, the people were taking 200mg/day or more and even up to 400mg/day. Copper, manganese, iron and some others can all interfere with each other in absorption. When a person is trying to balance out what they are doing, which is trying to have a functional and non-problem causing dose of each item, it can be made considerably more difficult by many other things the person is also taking.

So just as accumulated unconverted folic acid can block effectiveness of l-methylfolate, zinc can both compete with copper for absorption and/or block it in the body. As there are also other metals or minerals that also can compete, it can take multiple changes sometimes to come to a better balance in the body.

 

[Dockey]

I have been on cutler protocol for a few years and have made definite progress. I started metafolin a while back and can only take a quarter a tab without getting numbness and heatin my feet. I started l carnitine fumarate last weekend and find I am very sensitive to it. Just a speck of it caused a major reaction in increased energy. Yesterday I had a bad pain at the back of my head like as if I banged my head. I don't do well with potassium it causes me restless legs. I do eat 3 bananas per day. I have not added in b12. I wonder why the lcf would cause such a reaction. Any feedback appreciated.

 

[Freddd]

Oh wow, you're right. I had even cut it down to 1/8th of a pill (62.5mg) and I think my body is reacting very strongly to it. I'm clearly undergoing massive healing, but it's overwhelming. It seems like my appetite has suddenly gone and I've been experiencing nausea. Granted, there are other emotional things going on in my life that are likely contributing, and it's all connected. I'm just wondering if the carnitine could have to do with the nausea and appetite suppression.

Is there a particular brand of liquid carnitine I should look for?

@Waldemath ,

Jarrow liquid seems to do very well for most who try it. Did you read the dilution method which is posted many places?

Also, my experience is that each time we get the things needed to aid the neurology we get about 9 months worth of pent up unprocessed things causing all sorts of emotional processing while we are also healing. Emotional volatility and intensity is how I have described it at other times. If one takes advantage of the opportunity it can change a person. If it is fought off hard all the time a person wins the dubious grand prize of being able to continue to carry their load of emotional penalty bricks.

 

[Johnmac]

Some of us are hypersensitive to the LCF, & need to use liquid carnitine, which can be titrated up gradually from small doses.

I have been on cutler protocol for a few years and have made definite progress. I started metafolin a while back and can only take a quarter a tab without getting numbness and heatin my feet. I started l carnitine fumarate last weekend and find I am very sensitive to it. Just a speck of it caused a major reaction in increased energy. Yesterday I had a bad pain at the back of my head like as if I banged my head. I don't do well with potassium it causes me restless legs. I do eat 3 bananas per day. I have not added in b12. I wonder why the lcf would cause such a reaction. Any feedback appreciated.