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Tooth Enamel

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
I was just a bit deficient in Vitamin D when I was tested in Feb, and that was after a couple months of being stuck indoors and with very little light because of the winter, but I've been in the sun a lot since so I don't think I need D now...
What is your vitamin D level and the units it's being measured in? Most ranges are set too low by the bone doctors, without realizing what it does for the immune system, still I know that it has been linked to poor tooth enamel
 

gbells

Improved ME from 2 to 6
Messages
1,491
Location
Alexandria, VA USA
I’ve got a couple of questions here for my fellow Phoenixes:

For years my tooth enamel has been wearing away in many patches, and it is now getting quite bad, and should probably go and see a dentist. I am wondering if anyone else here has had the same thing going alongside their ME/CFS?

The reason I am bringing this up on the forum is because I have begun to suspect that there may be a correlation between my CFS and this tooth enamel problem. The teeth and bones are said to be mineral storehouses, that the body will draw from if it has to. My enamel first started wearing away a decade ago, at the same time I started coming under the stress and pressure that would eventually cause my CFS. Before that I had no tooth enamel problems…

It’s a curious situation, because, although the tooth enamel has been wearing away in certain patches, there is no tooth decay or pain. The only thing is that I cannot drink really cold water or eat juicy sweet fruit like apples, as this will hurt the spots without enamel.

I have always brushed my teeth twice a day, and floss once a day. I only ever use a medium toothbrush; not a really firm one. I eat responsibly, and have almost no sugar.

If anyone has any thoughts or experience on that matter, I would very much like to hear it. Especially if you know how to fix it!

It depends on the location of the worn enamel. I get this problem occasionally around the bases of my crowns. Early in my ME I had gum recession which exposed roots. Treatment is to remove the plaque (dental cleaning) and apply a topical prescription high flouride toothpaste (Prevadent) which hardens the enamel up. Check for causes of gum recession if you have this such as: inflammation (time release high absorption curcumin), CoQ10 deficiency (use ubiquinol with shalijit extender).
 

Tiger Lily 813

Senior Member
Messages
173
What is your vitamin D level and the units it's being measured in? Most ranges are set too low by the bone doctors, without realizing what it does for the immune system, still I know that it has been linked to poor tooth enamel

@Learner1 As of February, I was a little deficient in A and D. Like I was saying though, I was really stuck inside for months, due to winter, covid semi lockdown and a sprained ankle, in a house without the greatest light. Lately, I've been outside for an hour or two a day and it's been in the 70's mostly so I'd think D is in normal range now...
Here's what I got in February though (serum levels)-

Vitamin A: 36 mcg/dL range is 38-98

Vitamin D: 25 ng/mL range is 30-100

I would supplement both but often have bad reactions, possibly paradoxical. So I had given up on taking them...
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,913
I’ve got a couple of questions here for my fellow Phoenixes:

For years my tooth enamel has been wearing away in many patches, and it is now getting quite bad, and should probably go and see a dentist. I am wondering if anyone else here has had the same thing going alongside their ME/CFS?

The reason I am bringing this up on the forum is because I have begun to suspect that there may be a correlation between my CFS and this tooth enamel problem. The teeth and bones are said to be mineral storehouses, that the body will draw from if it has to. My enamel first started wearing away a decade ago, at the same time I started coming under the stress and pressure that would eventually cause my CFS. Before that I had no tooth enamel problems…

It’s a curious situation, because, although the tooth enamel has been wearing away in certain patches, there is no tooth decay or pain. The only thing is that I cannot drink really cold water or eat juicy sweet fruit like apples, as this will hurt the spots without enamel.

I have always brushed my teeth twice a day, and floss once a day. I only ever use a medium toothbrush; not a really firm one. I eat responsibly, and have almost no sugar.

If anyone has any thoughts or experience on that matter, I would very much like to hear it. Especially if you know how to fix it!


Hello @DavidJackson....I think most dentists today would recommend a Water Pik (absolute marvel) and an electric toothbrush. You probably aren't helping yourself by using a medium toothbrush, soft is recommended.

Like a reply that I just made concerning the same (or similar issue), I think that age and/or meds, supplements, etc., may be part of the problem. I would definitely see your dentist and when we go for our next check-up I'll be sure to inquire about tooth enamel problems. It also sounds as if you have some sensitivity issues going on....whether they're part of the same problem or not, I don't know, but you can buy Sensodyne OTC. I'm just not sure if it has a fluoride content, if that is a problem.

I had problems a few years ago and my dentist was able to brush on a material that bonded with my teeth. My husband hasn't had the same treatment and his teeth are definitely transparent in certain light. You know with dentists it seems that there's always "The Rest of the Story." So stay tuned. Yours Lenora.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
@Learner1 As of February, I was a little deficient in A and D. Like I was saying though, I was really stuck inside for months, due to winter, covid semi lockdown and a sprained ankle, in a house without the greatest light. Lately, I've been outside for an hour or two a day and it's been in the 70's mostly so I'd think D is in normal range now...
Here's what I got in February though (serum levels)-

Vitamin A: 36 mcg/dL range is 38-98

Vitamin D: 25 ng/mL range is 30-100

I would supplement both but often have bad reactions, possibly paradoxical. So I had given up on taking them...
The Vitamin D Council recommends a level of 60-80ng/ml, which you are far below.

Vitamin D and K2 together are essential for proper use of calcium in the body.

'Vitamin D deficiency has been linked to osteoporosis, increased risk for type 1 diabetes, and even breast, colon, or prostate cancer. But the dangers don’t end there. Numerous studies have shown that vitamin D deficiency also increases the risk of dental decay. This is because vitamin D helps the body absorb calcium and phosphate — both of which are crucial for building and keeping strong tooth enamel. Without an adequate intake of vitamin D, our teeth are at risk for weakening and developing cavities."


You'll want to read section 2.1 here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7285165/

Vitamin D can be gotten by being in the sun April-October in the northern US and Canada, etc. and by eating fatty fish, eggs and milk fortified by A and D. If you react to supplements, some people have a lanolin/wool allergy, in that case, you'd want a non-lanolin derived D supplement.

And vitamin K2.

Accrfong to Medline, vitamin A helps form and maintain healthy teeth, skeletal and soft tissue, mucus membranes, and skin. It is also known as retinol because it produces the pigments in the retina of the eye.

Vitamin A promotes good eyesight, especially in low light. It also has a role in healthy pregnancy and breastfeeding.
 

David Jackson

Senior Member
Messages
195
Hey everyone. I wrote this post so long ago. Thanks for the comments. I believe much of my tooth enamel problems were to taking a lot of vitamin c... ascorbic acid, mixed in water and juice throughout the day. I still do this, but make my own baking soda mouth wash, and use that after each meal.

For the record, my tooth enamel got really bad... huge holes in it. Never went to the dentist, though! A friend told me about Royal Apagard toothpaste, and it really helped. It's a Japanese toothpaste that rebuilds enamel with nano particles or something like that. Couldn't get it in the lockdown. However, my enamel actually rebuilds itself gradually... what used to be exposed dentin no longer is sensitive, and has something rebuilt over it. Not sure exactly how or why, but things have improved with the teeth situation.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
Hey everyone. I wrote this post so long ago. Thanks for the comments. I believe much of my tooth enamel problems were to taking a lot of vitamin c... ascorbic acid, mixed in water and juice throughout the day. I still do this, but make my own baking soda mouth wash, and use that after each meal.

For the record, my tooth enamel got really bad... huge holes in it. Never went to the dentist, though! A friend told me about Royal Apagard toothpaste, and it really helped. It's a Japanese toothpaste that rebuilds enamel with nano particles or something like that. Couldn't get it in the lockdown. However, my enamel actually rebuilds itself gradually... what used to be exposed dentin no longer is sensitive, and has something rebuilt over it. Not sure exactly how or why, but things have improved with the teeth situation.
Wow! Thanks for sharing! I guess it proves that ascorbic acid is actually an acid, which will dissolve tooth enamel. I believe there's a continual process of rebuilding, so your solution sounds like a success! Congratulations!
 
Messages
18
Hi everyone!

I would like to share a very interesting experience I recently had with my enamel. I unintentionally gave myself Vitamin A poisoning by eating the fresh liver of a large cod. For 24 hours, it felt like death, but I survived! Aside from other interesting things that my body went through, I noticed that my teeth felt really slippery the next day. Then they felt like they thickened overnight and my tooth sensitivity (on multiple teeth) almost completely went away.

Every night, I brush with a Sonicare toothbrush, use a Waterpik, floss with unwaxed dental floss, then brush again with a soft toothbrush. I also scrape my tongue. In the morning, I only scrape my tongue and brush my teeth. My dentist says I'm already doing everything possible and my hygienist says I'm one of her top 3 patients for cleanest teeth. Nobody could explain my thin enamel, receding gums, and numerous cavities to me. I also wake up with a bitter/sour taste (possibly dry mouth), which another dentist diagnosed as acid reflux. I tried fluoride toothpastes and rinses, xylitol candies and rinses, sensitivity toothpastes, but nothing worked.

It's only been a week, but it looks like Vitamin A just might be what I needed. I had a tooth that was super sensitive, even to slightly cold or slightly hot water, but now I can (almost) eat ice cream in that area. I wake up with a pretty dry mouth still, but it's tasteless now. I've read that vitamin A promotes bone resorption, but I think it may have strangely done the opposite to my teeth. How interesting!

Please note that I am definitely not promoting high doses of Vitamin A, but if you have thinning enamel and other unexplained oral hygiene issues, there's a possibility that it could be linked to a Vitamin A deficiency. Hope this helps!
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,913
HI @kula....I think your thin enamel and receding gums, cavities, etc., can be due to the simple process of aging. Which isn't so simple at all, by the way.

I never thought about cod fish having livers, can't imagine how you got it down, but that's OK. I'm rather up on Vit. A, and so is my husband. Still, we're older (74 and 77) and are now facing crowns that are failing b/c there is ongoing cavity beneath them, like you said, thinning enamel and gum problems (which I don't have, but Rod does). We're a dentists dream, although it's tough for them because we're the first generation that has lived as long as we have with our own teeth, there are no answers to our multiple questions. We spend a lot at the dentist's office. A not so good use of one's money. Two teeth were extracted...rotten the whole way through.


So I wonder how I could go about getting a cod liver (cod liver oil OK?) and exactly how do you treat it....cook it, that type of thing.? Anyway, good for you, I hope this simple cure will work. Thanks for the info. Yours, Lenora
 
Messages
18
HI @kula....I think your thin enamel and receding gums, cavities, etc., can be due to the simple process of aging. Which isn't so simple at all, by the way.

I never thought about cod fish having livers, can't imagine how you got it down, but that's OK. I'm rather up on Vit. A, and so is my husband. Still, we're older (74 and 77) and are now facing crowns that are failing b/c there is ongoing cavity beneath them, like you said, thinning enamel and gum problems (which I don't have, but Rod does). We're a dentists dream, although it's tough for them because we're the first generation that has lived as long as we have with our own teeth, there are no answers to our multiple questions. We spend a lot at the dentist's office. A not so good use of one's money. Two teeth were extracted...rotten the whole way through.


So I wonder how I could go about getting a cod liver (cod liver oil OK?) and exactly how do you treat it....cook it, that type of thing.? Anyway, good for you, I hope this simple cure will work. Thanks for the info. Yours, Lenora

Hi Lenora,

Yes, my dental issues definitely got worse with age, so I agree that it is part of natural aging. My mom was told when she was 26 that she had the gums of a 50 year old. My issues started in my late 20s as well. I just really wanted to see if it was really just "genetics" (which is really just a medical professional's way of saying "I can't explain it") or something else. My teeth made me very sad because late 20s seems quite early to have these issues. Seeing my mom's teeth now freaks me out that I'm going to have the same teeth.

I've been eating beef/lamb/pork/chicken liver about 2-4x a month to see if it might help my low iron and copper. The fish market happened to have fresh ling cods that day. My dad bought a chunk of fish plus liver and cooked it. It was delicious, but unfortunately my family ended up with varying degrees of acute Vitamin A poisoning afterwards. My mom thinks her gums slightly grew back after eating some liver, and is feeling better overall too. My dad didn't feel any different. As for the liver, we just pan-fried it with salt and pepper.

Thanks, I hope this simple cure works too, although I think this is just one of many issues that I have.