Toddler whose symptoms puzzled 17 doctors for three YEARS is finally diagnosed with rare condition... by ChatGPT - Daily Mail, Sept. 28, 2023

[Mary]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12509111/ChatGPT-diagnosis-rare-condition.html

ChatGPT successfully diagnosed 4-year-old after he saw 17 doctors over 3 years, and none of them were able to figure it out. The child had tethered cord syndrome, spina bifida occulta.

A couple of interesting side notes in the article:

A study published last month by researchers at Mass General Brigham in Boston found ChatGPT found the correct diagnosis 72 percent of the time, about the same rate as a resident doctor. More senior doctors are usually right about 95 percent of the time, experts suggest. ["experts suggest" - right! Not!]

The AI showed empathy 45 percent of the time, compared to five percent among doctors. It also provided more detailed answers 79 percent of the time, compared to 21 percent for doctors.

Additionally, ChatGPT was preferred 79 percent of the time, compared to 21 percent for doctors.

For the first time I'm starting to get a little excited about the possibility of AI/ChatGPT helping us . . .

 

[Viala]

The AI showed empathy 45 percent of the time, compared to five percent among doctors. It also provided more detailed answers 79 percent of the time, compared to 21 percent for doctors.

Additionally, ChatGPT was preferred 79 percent of the time, compared to 21 percent for doctors.

I hope every doctor will read this, maybe they'll change their attitude now that their jobs are at stake.

It's funny what it is saying, it means that 95% of doctors do not show any empathy and 79% of them do not even want to explain anything. That is a pretty accurate picture of what we are facing here.

 

[hapl808]

I hope every doctor will read this, maybe they'll change their attitude now that their jobs are at stake.

It's funny what it is saying, it means that 95% of doctors do not show any empathy and 79% of them do not even want to explain anything. That is a pretty accurate picture of what we are facing here.

My guess is their main response will be to fearmonger about the dangers of AI, rather than try to just be better at their jobs. They resent that their jobs might have to include any amount of empathy or even worse - humility.

I am completely unsurprised that AI is 9 times more empathetic than doctors. That sounds about right. And the answers are not only more detailed, but it has infinite patience as you ask questions, and will often warn that it can't be sure, etc.

 

[Viala]

My guess is their main response will be to fearmonger about the dangers of AI, rather than try to just be better at their jobs.

They will be right about it because AI probably will never be 100% correct, but real doctors also aren't. There is another risk, AI can only be as good as the information it gets. We won't have a guarantee that it will be programmed to benefit our health and not the industry instead.

For now AI wins with empathy and patience. Risk of being traumatized at a doctors office is real.

 

[hapl808]

They will be right about it because AI probably will never be 100% correct, but real doctors also aren't.

The challenge will be that if doctors are right 80% of the time and AI is right 90% of the time, that won't be sufficient because every time the AI gets it wrong, it'll be a cover story in the national news. Meanwhile every time a missed diagnosis kills someone, at best it'll be a buried link to a GoFundMe for the patient's family trying to raise money for the medical costs for the procedure that killed them.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

any amount of empathy or even worse - humility.

They do not recruit individuals who have these traits. The system favors personality types which lack these skills. I took classes with Pre Med Students. I know. It was frightening.

 

[Viala]

They do not recruit individuals who have these traits. The system favors personality types which lack these skills. I took classes with Pre Med Students. I know. It was frightening.

I suspected it can be like this, that they take in only those who will do everything for money and won't say a word if something doesn't work as it's supposed to be. How can they know who has these traits, is there some sort of a test?

 

[lenora]

There are doctors who have these the traits of empathy, etc. They'll also take their time to explain things, especially on the first visit. I only know because I had one....and he was like that from the very beginning to the day he died. (About 40 yrs. or so.) Easygoing is the best way to describe someone like that....and yes, he was. Yours, Lenora

 

[Viala]

I only had one doctor like that, it was a young woman and a paid appointment. She really listened and was interested in the problem, she was also helpful in thinking about possible causes and worked along with what I thought could help. There is a big difference between a doctor who really listens and the one who doesn't.

 

[Viala]

It's not just a lack of empathy problem, but a general disbelief problem. How can they help if they assume they know better and ignore the symptoms, because they have some idea what it can be and are not interested when something doesn't fit that idea. It's Occam's razor in practice. AI doesn't have this preconceived notions, it takes in all the data and makes decisions based on that including possibilities that are rarely considered, something that every doctor should do. Here often it's faulty logic and prejudice that stands in a way.

 

[SWAlexander]

The older generation of doctors will not use AI.
AI could point out the incorrect diagnosis and that would crash their ego.

A few days ago my friend told me she got a prescription for her neck pain. We found out the med was a part of an earlier placebo-controlled trial. Is it possible that doctors simply appease instead of treating?

I suggest searching for the meds or reading the insert before taking.

 

[Viala]

It would be interesting if AI asked them why they are giving one diagnosis and not the other. I imagine if it was documented, having voice recognition and speech to text tools, doctors would have to be more careful with their words and their out of the blue 'you're depressed because this is the most frequent diagnosis I give in cases like that so it can't be anything else'. WHY are you giving that particular diagnosis. AI is not a person they could talk down to.

 

[SWAlexander]

AI is not a person they could talk down to.

Oh, I wish AI would correct doctors by answering "Your diagnosis is wrong".
If a patient comes to this conclusion he/she is belittled.

Two days ago Patient with sciatic nerve pain saw a new PCP.
PCP tells the person you have a kidney problem.
Patient defended - no it is sciatic nerve.
PCP - in this case apply hot /cold compress and physical exercise.

 

[Viala]

Oh, I wish AI would correct doctors by answering "Your diagnosis is wrong".
If a patient comes to this conclusion he/she is belittled.

And then eventually "Your diagnosis is wrong, again, you need to reapply for a license."

They can get away with it because there are no witnesses. I bet the moment everything would be documented, they would not be able to write nonsense summary contradicting everything that patient said.

 

[SWAlexander]

I bet the moment everything would be documented

Will patients need to record their doctor visits to defend themself?
Will it really come to this?

 

[Viala]

Will patients need to record their doctor visits to defend themself?
Will it really come to this?

To be honest I've already thought about it a couple of times. Can they be trusted anyways?

The most important part is that the visit would be safe, some women advice to go to a visit with a man and I think this is a good idea, a man or a woman, anyone who could be there and guarantee that a doctor will behave.

 

[SWAlexander]

a man or a woman, anyone

Would be nice to have such support. My husband died 10 years ago.

Anyway, since Covid no additional person in the exam room is allowed.

My niece told me she is secretly recording all visits on her cell phone.
The fact is, people don´t trust doctors anymore.

 

[ruben]

I can't help wondering when this technique will be available to the masses?

 

[Viala]

Would be nice to have such support. My husband died 10 years ago.

Oh, I am sorry to hear that. Yes it would be very nice to have someone trustworthy. I got sick not long after my last relationship ended and then it just wasn't enough energy to go out, date and meet someone.

I think recording a visit like you wrote is the least we can do to protect ourselves. Yeah but that AI support would be nice, if it would correct doctors about their diagnoses, who knows, maybe I could even enjoy such a visit.

 

[SWAlexander]

correct doctors about their diagnoses
I once saw an app for medical AI where you can get a diagnosis according to symptoms. But can´t remember where.