TMG?

[burgeo10]

Hi All,

Having improved somewhat I have recently plateaud for the last 6 months, and as a result decided to try some lecithin the other day. I have been very excited by the results, I have a marked increase in mental energy, and some physical energy. I am now looking to try TMG, as I know lecithin works on the same pathway and I have lots of BHMT mutations, does this seem logical?

I also want to note the thinks that I have noticed increase my energy, and see if anyone can suggest further supplements to try.

pantothenic acid - 500mg
l-carnitine fumarate - 500mg
methylcobalmin, b12 1,000mcg to a much smaller extent
Dhea 50mg, also small improvement


I also take Vit C, a multi, coq10, and an adrenal formula.


I tried @Freddd protocol before and did very badly on it, so I am wondering if I should try and stimulate this other pathway? Also does anyone know any alternatives to powdered sunflower lecithin, it gives me a bit of a stomach ache but I am willing to suffer for this extra energy!

Thanks

 

[aaron_c]

You might try a more moderate methylation protocol. Rich van Konynenburg's protocol was pretty basic, but it would certainly include 5-MTHF--which along with B12 would theoretically be important for someone with BHMT mutations (Methionine Synthase and BHMT both convert homocysteine to methionine). Experiment with 5-MTHF and B12 doses. You may also need some potassium.

Yasko's science is sometimes controversial and/or wrong, but she treats a lot of patients with a focus on methylation, so you also might want to check out what she puts in her vitamins. I haven't had success with her RNA supplements, but more or less copying the vitamins she sells was how I started building my supplement regimen.

You might try using phosphatidylcholine pills instead of lecithin. I do, and it seems to work well enough. But I didn't have muscle cramps from lecithin; it's far from a sure thing that it will be an improvement.

 

[burgeo10]

Hi @aaron_c Thanks for the reply! Do you know if b-12 and methylfolate are needed in the bhmt pathway? I have tried folate with b-12 before and not had much luck, so now I'm trying to go down this other methylation path. Also would you have any idea about the lecithin, TMG relationship? I want to start TMG but don't know how much to take or whehter I should take it in conjunction with lecithin etc.

Thanks

 

[aaron_c]

B12 and methylfolate are not needed for BHMT. Here is a diagram that might help:

It might look like BHMT is an alternate to Methionine Synthase (MS), but this isn't entirely true. This is for two reasons:

1. MS exists in relevant amounts in every cell of the body, at least according to biogps.org (type in MTR, which is the gene that codes for MS, and make sure to look for the human kind). BHMT, on the other hand, exists almost entirely in the kidney and liver.
   
2. The conversion of 5-MTHF (aka 5-CH3THF in the diagram, CH3 being "methyl") to THF via MS is essential for the folate cycle to function. Without it, you body cannot produce nucleotides for DNA and RNA.

I absolutely think that you should pursue the lecithin/phosphatidylcholine thing--I just think there is a decent chance that you will also want to round it out with some amount of folate and b12.

Lecithin helps with BHMT because it contains phosphatidylcholine, which is converted to choline and then betaine (aka TMG). I don't know what is required to convert choline to betaine.

Lecithin might be helping with mental acuity in other ways: Phosphatidylcholine is an important component of cell membranes, and choline is a precursor to acetylcholine. (Betaine, on the other hand, cannot be converted back to choline). Both improved membrane function and improved acetylcholine levels might account for improved mental acuity. See this article from nootreatment.com.

 

[burgeo10]

@aaron_c very interesting that you should mention the other role os lecithin other than methylation. Because of my success with lecithin I tried 500mg of TMG today, and if anything felt worse. If lecithin was helping because of the methylation cycle it thus seems likely that TMG would help, but as it seems that is not the case, perhaps it is through one of the other methods? I am going to try some gel forms of choline tomorrow