Thyroid hormons T4/T3, someone else taking it for CFS/ME?

MAF14

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Interesting @Gondwanaland - thanks! I do take an adrenal glandular which helps, in addition to dessicated thyroid.

Last week I went to an acupuncturist for sleep as nothing was helping that had formerly helped me, and I think it helped the first night. He recommended we plan on 5 or 6 visits and then see how I was doing. I also started doing self-acupressure on a few points for sleep and I think that is helping too. In any event I am sleeping better than when I first saw him! Am crossing my fingers --
Which glandular? Do you know if the adrenal hormones are removed?
 

Mary

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Right. Years ago I had high cortisol middle of the night related I'm sure to my adrenals, and Seriphos (phosphorylated serine) helped a lot with it.

My recent insomnia was different - I'd sleep maybe 2 hours till midnight, then be awake until 6:00 a.m. and sleep 1.5 more hours, much worse than years ago and different than the high cortisol. I learned recently that pantothenic acid depletes taurine - and taurine is necessary for sleep. I've been taking pantothenic acid for my adrenals for over 15 years .... so what started out helping me may have contributed to the worst insomnia I've had in my life. I stopped the pantothenic acid and started seeing the acupuncturist around the same time, and over all am sleeping better. I have a ways to go but I feel like there may be hope :nerd: (at least I hope so!)

I did try taking taurine before but it was a crapshoot - helping sometimes and other times making everything worse.
 

Mary

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And you're not worried about that further taxing your adrenals?
I've never seen an endocrinologist. When I first started getting sick, doctors could find nothing wrong of course. It was my chiropractor who does muscle testing who identified my weak adrenals and gave me Drenatrophin PMG or Drenamin by Standard Process. They helped me a lot within a few days. The chiropractor explained that these would support my adrenals, enabling them to rest, whereas taking a steroid would push them to work harder, thus exhausting them further.

Over time I've been able to cut the dose I take. But in times of stress I find I do need more.

I know this isn't scientific per se, but it's worked for me.
 

MAF14

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I've never seen an endocrinologist. When I first started getting sick, doctors could find nothing wrong of course. It was my chiropractor who does muscle testing who identified my weak adrenals and gave me Drenatrophin PMG or Drenamin by Standard Process. They helped me a lot within a few days. The chiropractor explained that these would support my adrenals, enabling them to rest, whereas taking a steroid would push them to work harder, thus exhausting them further.

Over time I've been able to cut the dose I take. But in times of stress I find I do need more.

I know this isn't scientific per se, but it's worked for me.
Gotcha, I may give it a try. FYI in the amazon reviews a few people said there were no adrenal hormones. I may contact the company and ask
 

Mary

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Gotcha, I may give it a try. FYI in the amazon reviews a few people said there were no adrenal hormones. I may contact the company and ask
Do ask. I assumed because it has bovine adrenal tissue, that it contained hormones that are naturally present. I wouldn't rely on Amazon reviews :whistle:
 

MAF14

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Do ask. I assumed because it has bovine adrenal tissue, that it contained hormones that are naturally present. I wouldn't rely on Amazon reviews :whistle:
Just heard back...

"This product does contain the whole adrenal and adrenal PMG. There are no added hormones but there certainly can contain naturally occurring which could be in all animal glands, especially the adrenals."
 

pattismith

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Last update concerning my T3 trial (6.25 mcg/day)...(I just repeat that i am considered an Euthyroid person with Low T3 syndrome = Non Thyroid Illness syndrome)

Some things I noticed:

-of course I over did and exercised too much, and I got acute muscles pains in my thighs, so I now take cortisone, because this is the only drug that worked for this in the past...

-I still have good moments and especially good brain moments.

-The symptoms are cleared after about 1 hour, and go back after 9 hours but I can't take more than a dose/day.

I had a look at T3 pharmacocinetic (see below), which makes me wonder :

-why the action is so quick after my intake, (1 hours, versus 2-4 hours, and therapeutic peak within 2 days)
-why it is so short, (9 hours, versus therapeutic peak and half life 1-2 days)
-and why I need to wait before taking the next dose.(minimum 24 h00, but I may be more comfortable if I wait two days between, because I'm also very sensitive to excess, which makes me feel bad).

T3 is deactivated by deiodinases so it may be that I have an over active D3, which I already suspect as my rT3 is high (produced from T4 by D3 activity).

T3 is mainly bound to albumine in blood, so I may be lacking albumine which would increase my sensitivity to T3 (as only unbound T3 is active)... This thing will be easy to check!


"Onset

More rapid onset of action than levothyroxine.a c Following a single IV dose, metabolic response is detectable within 2–4 hours and peak therapeutic effects occur within 2 days.a b


Duration

Shorter duration of action than levothyroxine.a c


Distribution

Plasma Protein Binding

Circulating thyroid hormones are >99% bound to plasma proteins, including TBG, thyroxine-binding prealbumin (TBPA), and albumin. T3 is less extensively and firmly bound to TBG and TBPA than T4.b c Only unbound hormone is metabolically active.b c


Elimination

Metabolism

T3 is metabolized principally in the liver through deiodination to diiodothyronine.d i


Elimination Route

Thyroid hormones are primarily eliminated by the kidneys.b c


Half-life

Approximately 1–2 days.a e Plasma half-life is decreased in patients with hyperthyroidism and increased in those with hypothyroidism.a d"
 

MAF14

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Last update concerning my T3 trial (6.25 mcg/day)...(I just repeat that i am considered an Euthyroid person with Low T3 syndrome = Non Thyroid Illness syndrome)

Some things I noticed:

-of course I over did and exercised too much, and I got acute muscles pains in my thighs, so I now take cortisone, because this is the only drug that worked for this in the past...

-I still have good moments and especially good brain moments.

-The symptoms are cleared after about 1 hour, and go back after 9 hours but I can't take more than a dose/day.

I had a look at T3 pharmacocinetic (see below), which makes me wonder :

-why the action is so quick after my intake, (1 hours, versus 2-4 hours, and therapeutic peak within 2 days)
-why it is so short, (9 hours, versus therapeutic peak and half life 1-2 days)
-and why I need to wait before taking the next dose.(minimum 24 h00, but I may be more comfortable if I wait two days between, because I'm also very sensitive to excess, which makes me feel bad).

T3 is deactivated by deiodinases so it may be that I have an over active D3, which I already suspect as my rT3 is high (produced from T4 by D3 activity).

T3 is mainly bound to albumine in blood, so I may be lacking albumine which would increase my sensitivity to T3 (as only unbound T3 is active)... This thing will be easy to check!


"Onset

More rapid onset of action than levothyroxine.a c Following a single IV dose, metabolic response is detectable within 2–4 hours and peak therapeutic effects occur within 2 days.a b


Duration

Shorter duration of action than levothyroxine.a c


Distribution

Plasma Protein Binding

Circulating thyroid hormones are >99% bound to plasma proteins, including TBG, thyroxine-binding prealbumin (TBPA), and albumin. T3 is less extensively and firmly bound to TBG and TBPA than T4.b c Only unbound hormone is metabolically active.b c


Elimination

Metabolism

T3 is metabolized principally in the liver through deiodination to diiodothyronine.d i


Elimination Route

Thyroid hormones are primarily eliminated by the kidneys.b c


Half-life

Approximately 1–2 days.a e Plasma half-life is decreased in patients with hyperthyroidism and increased in those with hypothyroidism.a d"
ADRENALS ADRENALS ADRENALS

I cant stress that enough. Thyroid and adrenals work in concert.

I could reasonably theorize that the T3 you take (which peaks after about an hour on empty stomach) would work with what cortisol you have BUT end up using it all up, resulting in your fatigue later.

Licorice Root may extend the life of cortisol, which could help... BUT I'm going to say again you should get a diurnal cortisol kit ASAP
 

pattismith

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ADRENALS ADRENALS ADRENALS

I cant stress that enough. Thyroid and adrenals work in concert.

I could reasonably theorize that the T3 you take (which peaks after about an hour on empty stomach) would work with what cortisol you have BUT end up using it all up, resulting in your fatigue later.

Licorice Root may extend the life of cortisol, which could help... BUT I'm going to say again you should get a diurnal cortisol kit ASAP
Amazingly, I was at the top with Cortisone + T3, maybe you are right! :whistle:
As soon as I added a respectable amount of cortisone toT3(and splitting the T3 dose in two), I felt great, without any pain. I still don't understand if it is from the antiinflammatory property of cortisone, or if cortisone helps T3 working (this is your idea if I understood well)

How would you explain that T3 is doing better with some cortisone?
 

ahmo

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@MAF14 There are several adrenal glandulars at iherb. For a couple years, while I was in the midst of detox and getting methylation in order, I used adrenal, hypothalamus, and pituitary glandulars. Then I stopped for a couple years. After a stressful 2016-7, my adrenals took a thrashing. So I've now resumed all 3 glandulars. iherb no longer carries hypothalamus, I'm now getting it from Swanson's, Nutricology brand.

I also take T3. It took years to get the right thyroid replacement, after decades of standard thyroxine. T3 has been great for me. I had to keep the dose low for some while when I was in the midst of detox, but have been stable for some years at my current 100mcg dose. good luck.

Also...I think my stressful year has left my adrenals in an overall worse condition. I began having edema in feet and legs. I used a variety of herbs for edema, lymph system, adrenals, as well as rx diuretic. The only thing that seems to have really made a difference has been acupuncture. For me, acu is very good medicine.
 

MAF14

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Amazingly, I was at the top with Cortisone + T3, maybe you are right! :whistle:
As soon as I added a respectable amount of cortisone toT3(and splitting the T3 dose in two), I felt great, without any pain. I still don't understand if it is from the antiinflammatory property of cortisone, or if cortisone helps T3 working (this is your idea if I understood well)

How would you explain that T3 is doing better with some cortisone?
Cortisol works to help deliver T3 to the receptors from what I understand. Without sufficient cortisol the T3 wont work as effectively as it should.

Also, that's why I was stressing getting a diurnal cortisol kit completed. I was concluding that the T3 you were taking was "using up" all of your natural adrenal hormones and causing your crashes later on in the day.

I'm glad you found some relief!
 

MAF14

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@MAF14 There are several adrenal glandulars at iherb. For a couple years, while I was in the midst of detox and getting methylation in order, I used adrenal, hypothalamus, and pituitary glandulars. Then I stopped for a couple years. After a stressful 2016-7, my adrenals took a thrashing. So I've now resumed all 3 glandulars. iherb no longer carries hypothalamus, I'm now getting it from Swanson's, Nutricology brand.

I also take T3. It took years to get the right thyroid replacement, after decades of standard thyroxine. T3 has been great for me. I had to keep the dose low for some while when I was in the midst of detox, but have been stable for some years at my current 100mcg dose. good luck.

Also...I think my stressful year has left my adrenals in an overall worse condition. I began having edema in feet and legs. I used a variety of herbs for edema, lymph system, adrenals, as well as rx diuretic. The only thing that seems to have really made a difference has been acupuncture. For me, acu is very good medicine.
Do you notice specific benefits from each glandular in particular? If so could you expand?

My adrenal issues stem from thyroid (low T3, high rt3) but have had to go the underground route with T3 as my insurance has gotten extremely expensive. I think I need to find a new source of T3. I don't know the exact timing but since around late summer I've been significantly more fatigued and I think that's about the same time I switched to this new T3...
 

Gondwanaland

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Cortisol works to help deliver T3 to the receptors from what I understand. Without sufficient cortisol the T3 wont work as effectively as it should.

Also, that's why I was stressing getting a diurnal cortisol kit completed. I was concluding that the T3 you were taking was "using up" all of your natural adrenal hormones and causing your crashes later on in the day.

I'm glad you found some relief!
Do you have any idea why LT4 makes me much more fatigued than T4+T3?

I am getting hypothyroid about 18 hours after my T4+T3 dose, and I have been trying to add an extra T3 dose like I used to take until recently, but it makes me hyper. My next step is to increase the T4 in my compounded T4+T3 and hope that this covers 24 hours...
 

pattismith

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Cortisol works to help deliver T3 to the receptors from what I understand. Without sufficient cortisol the T3 wont work as effectively as it should.

Also, that's why I was stressing getting a diurnal cortisol kit completed. I was concluding that the T3 you were taking was "using up" all of your natural adrenal hormones and causing your crashes later on in the day.

I'm glad you found some relief!
I had a few great days, then it happened what often happens when I take cortisone, I caught a big viral infection...

This time an adenovirus that benefited also from my low lymphocytes T CD8...

It seems it is not a good time for me to take cortisone, I will have to wait for a better immunity to be back before trying again!
 

MAF14

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Do you have any idea why LT4 makes me much more fatigued than T4+T3?

I am getting hypothyroid about 18 hours after my T4+T3 dose, and I have been trying to add an extra T3 dose like I used to take until recently, but it makes me hyper. My next step is to increase the T4 in my compounded T4+T3 and hope that this covers 24 hours...
T4 half life is so long I can't imagine... At the 18 hour mark what happens?
 

MAF14

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I had a few great days, then it happened what often happens when I take cortisone, I caught a big viral infection...

This time an adenovirus that benefited also from my low lymphocytes T CD8...

It seems it is not a good time for me to take cortisone, I will have to wait for a better immunity to be back before trying again!
I'm not familiar with viral issues but is there an antiviral you can take while taking the cortisone?