The viral origin of myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (Hanson, 2023)
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Lots of people with eds have a herniated brain stem
I agree with that.
hi, I believe that "the virus" has not really been looked for, that is, the best microscopes have not been used on the inflamed or damaged tissues of ME patients. Just as I also think that it is useless to study the reactivations of viruses like Epstein Barr because: 1) it is the one studied the most and the connection with our disease has not been found 2) because there are so many ME sufferers (I think 70% hidden) that It seems impossible to me that the rare behavior of the virus (reactivation) and so many sick people in the world can coexist with no evidence by doctors. HI
I disagree with that. A computer's components are mounted on a PCboard (typically epoxy-fibreglass), but a plastic board does not do any computing. The computer would work just as well if the components and traces were held apart by insulating beads or just the strength of the traces. Connective tissue can affect how the other brain cells function--causing signal leakage, failing to prevent strain from movement, etc--but the connective tissue doesn't do actual signal processing. If an AI is modeled after the human brain, it probably won't involve connective tissue factors.
Connective tissue abnormalities in the brain can alter brain function, which in turn can cause various symptoms, both neurological and physical. Such abnormalities could result in symptoms similar to ME. However, that doesn't mean that ME has to be caused by connective tissue abnormalities.
What we believe depends on personal perception. Someone with ME and with significant connective tissue symptoms is biased to believe in a connection. I don't have any noticeable connective tissue symptoms, so I'm biased against believing in a connection. None of the information I've seen convinces me that connective tissue problems are a cause rather than an effect of ME.
Thing is, I've posted lots of information showing there's a link between eds and neurological symptoms.
Let's widen this out to tissue type.
We are not made of strong stuff. This is a fact.
I could send you loads of info on it.
The brains not a PC, it's a piece of flesh made of tissue. Do you think all tissue type is the same in humans? If course not..
But there's a huge raft of evidence linking eds and tissue to m.e. and other connective tissue disorders such as m.s., fibro and autism.
To ignore that signal is just self defeating
Let's widen this out to tissue type.
We are not made of strong stuff. This is a fact.
I could send you loads of info on it.
The brains not a PC, it's a piece of flesh made of tissue. Do you think all tissue type is the same in humans? If course not..
But there's a huge raft of evidence linking eds and tissue to m.e. and other connective tissue disorders such as m.s., fibro and autism.
To ignore that signal is just self defeating
Rufous McKinney
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my neck unravels nightly.....its entirely unstable
figure the episodes of severe gastropersis I experience has included vomiting so many times: throw my neck out willy nilly. So each episode potentially worsens the entire set up.
Forummember9922
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+1 .... but the fact that people aren't getting better often enough means new theories must take place
So Oliver3 regarding this statement from MePedia:
"Interferon therapy appears to be temporarily very effective for treating enterovirus-associated ME/CFS, with severe bedbound patients being able to return to work after treatment, but Dr John Chia discovered that most patients relapse several months later. However, although Chia found interferon therapy is usually not a long-term solution to ME/CFS, its major short-term efficacy does provide some supporting evidence for the theory that persistent enterovirus infection causes and maintains ME/CFS."
Do you think that the real benefits were from Interferon addressing connective tissue issues? Or do you challenge the credibility of the statement? Not trying to disprove you.
gm286
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@Forummember9922 if you ask me, the real benefits were from Interferon addressing the immune system.
And that seems to be the central issue with unraveling ME/CFS: we shouldn’t be looking for an external culprit or a virus, but instead what within our immune system makeup is deficient and causing the source problem.
For some of us, our connective tissue has taken a beating because it is simply not functioning correctly — it does not detoxify and regenerate itself within normal capacity.
Seventeen years after getting ME, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, or all of the above, far be it from me to think I have active virus or spirochetes “poisoning and eating me.”
Instead, I think my immune system is simply deficient. I’m not sure how that connects to connective tissue or to neurology, but I know full well that it must connect to both, and so for me, that is where a chunk of the problem begins — not with virus.
@Oliver3 mentions the EDS - autism spectrum. I think that it is a propos for ME/CFS not just because of the connective tissue parameter, but because in these conditions, the immune system is also shifted / atypical / abnormal.
As far as I’m concerned, and maybe more so than just the theory of a brain switch or loop, the immune system (and not “a virus”) has the strongest implication for ME/CFS.
Immune system dysfunction and deficiency has immediate bearing for behavior, energy, AND connective tissue dysfunction. Without being certain of it, I would also guess that it plays a role in detoxifying and regenerating cells, tissue, etc.
That does not explain why Abilify helped me switch off the ME/CFS state, but does explain why peptides like Thymosin Alpha-1 or TB-500 help me feel a lot better energetically, emotionally, sensitively (turns down pain).
And that seems to be the central issue with unraveling ME/CFS: we shouldn’t be looking for an external culprit or a virus, but instead what within our immune system makeup is deficient and causing the source problem.
For some of us, our connective tissue has taken a beating because it is simply not functioning correctly — it does not detoxify and regenerate itself within normal capacity.
Seventeen years after getting ME, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, or all of the above, far be it from me to think I have active virus or spirochetes “poisoning and eating me.”
Instead, I think my immune system is simply deficient. I’m not sure how that connects to connective tissue or to neurology, but I know full well that it must connect to both, and so for me, that is where a chunk of the problem begins — not with virus.
@Oliver3 mentions the EDS - autism spectrum. I think that it is a propos for ME/CFS not just because of the connective tissue parameter, but because in these conditions, the immune system is also shifted / atypical / abnormal.
As far as I’m concerned, and maybe more so than just the theory of a brain switch or loop, the immune system (and not “a virus”) has the strongest implication for ME/CFS.
Immune system dysfunction and deficiency has immediate bearing for behavior, energy, AND connective tissue dysfunction. Without being certain of it, I would also guess that it plays a role in detoxifying and regenerating cells, tissue, etc.
That does not explain why Abilify helped me switch off the ME/CFS state, but does explain why peptides like Thymosin Alpha-1 or TB-500 help me feel a lot better energetically, emotionally, sensitively (turns down pain).
I'm saying that connective tissue undergirds the immune system and everything else. Your tissue type as a human is equal to how quickly you get sick from viruses, how strong your immune system is. Your propensity to develop autoimmunity your propensity towards inflammation. Your cell danger response. Your mitochobdria health.byoyr healing capabilities etc+1 .... but the fact that people aren't getting better often enough means new theories must take place
So Oliver3 regarding this statement from MePedia:
"Interferon therapy appears to be temporarily very effective for treating enterovirus-associated ME/CFS, with severe bedbound patients being able to return to work after treatment, but Dr John Chia discovered that most patients relapse several months later. However, although Chia found interferon therapy is usually not a long-term solution to ME/CFS, its major short-term efficacy does provide some supporting evidence for the theory that persistent enterovirus infection causes and maintains ME/CFS."
Do you think that the real benefits were from Interferon addressing connective tissue issues? Or do you challenge the credibility of the statement? Not trying to disprove you.
It's the building blocks of life.
So , I'm not saying viruses aren't present in us, or that therapies won't help us, but they're not ground zero..
Ground zero is, were built different. And EDS keeps coming up again and again. So tissue type and connective tissue need to be studied to see why this happens.
What makes sone strong and others not.
Don't forget, this condition massively rubs in families. It's not a virus at the core although viruses definitely involved and perpetuate our misery
It's not separate, since the immune system is part of many loops. The immune system(s) involves some precise, consistent timing mechanisms, so that's a good candidate for explaining ME's consistent delays.
Just one example of an immune system feedback loop: activating glial cells makes them more sensitive to further triggers, which is positive feedback. I assume there's a (maybe many) negative loop that is meant to counteract that positive loop. Make the positive loop stronger, or make a negative loop weaker, and you have problems, possibly locking into an abnormal state.
That I'm not sure is valid. I expect there are plenty of studies involving growing immune cells or other cells in Petri dishes without connective tissue cells, and they probably function normally.
Among all those connective tissue papers you cite, do any actually show that immune cells function depends directly on connective tissue cells, or is it just a link between having connective tissue disorders and also having immune system disorders, with no proof of cause vs effect? It's reasonable for immune system disorders to affect connective tissue, and connective tissue disorders might stress the immune systems, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the immune cells are directly dependent on connective tissue cells.
Mitochondria live inside cells, so seem to be isolated from connective tissue. I checked, but couldn't find a quick answer to: "Do connective tissue cells contain mitochondria?"
Here's an interesting new medical imaging technique that might be useful for ME research: https://newatlas.com/medical/total-body-imaging-captures-immune-systems-response-to-viral-infection/
That might provide interesting results comparing pre-exertion to post-exertion. Since this thread is about viral origin, this technique might reveal immune system hotspots where viruses are hiding. Likewise, hypotheses of connective tissue involvement might be tested.
That might provide interesting results comparing pre-exertion to post-exertion. Since this thread is about viral origin, this technique might reveal immune system hotspots where viruses are hiding. Likewise, hypotheses of connective tissue involvement might be tested.
Yes, this thread is about viruses. You can't leave out tissue type and connective tissue in that context.
Ask yourself why sone people respond to viruses this way
Look at Bob naviauxs work. A genius. He says we're a phenotype given to these kind of illnesses.
You have to keep pulling back the layers till you get to ground zero
https://ehlersdanlosnews.com/news/immune-dysfunction-common-hypermobile-eds-study-finds/
Immune abnormalities in ehlers danlos deffo a thing.
Immune abnormalities in ehlers danlos deffo a thing.
sunshine44
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Something is very, very wrong with my spine and neck. What, I do not know but it went QUICKLY downhill in 2017. I have much trouble holding my head up and swallowing and breathing etc used to be difficult frequently before I started some things.
Sigh.
Really want us to figure this stuff out.
Rufous McKinney
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double sigh.......