The PACE trial [pro]: It’s time to broaden perceptions and move on. Keith Petrie, John Weinman

[ash0787]

can confirm hes a retard

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/826150108114808833

good photographer though

 

[alex3619]

Read a book many years ago arguing that the brain was basically a giant gland, and that there should be more funding of research into the brain as a giant gland.

Written by a neuro-endocrinologist researching the giant gland aspect of the brain, you won't be surprised to learn.

(Not saying he was wrong.)

Neural plasticity is deeply connected to chemical signals. So are other factors in the brain. The brain is the top of the neurological info processing, but it connects to metabolic, hormonal and immunological systems, and its two way communication. I think of it as the primary command and control system, but is connected by communication from all the others.

What training such as classical CBT does is strictly limited by all the parts of the command control and communications systems, and what they do.

 

[adreno]

One of the problems is the brain is indeed capable of being modified through training, but what can be consciously modified is probably a teeny tiny subset of the whole

The brain is capable of being modified (trained, adapted) through sensory input, or the lack of it, all which is very physical. This is perfectly compatible with monism. I'm not convinced that something ethereal termed "the mind" can modify the brain in any way. I think consciousness is much more of an epiphenomenon. What you see on the monitor is not the program running.

 

[TiredSam]

can confirm hes a retard

Thanks, I was in two minds about that. Oh, damn, more pesky dualism again.

 

[Robert 1973]

The use of exercise when someone feels fatigued is counterintuitive to the common sense model of CFS.

Given that counterintuitive means "contrary to common-sense expectation", does anyone know what "counterintuitive to the common sense model" means? Contrary to the common-sense expectation of the common-sense model? What is the common-sense expectation of common-sense? If one were foolish enough to disagree with the learned authors, would that be contrary to the common-sense expectation of the common sense model of CFS, or just common-sense?

 

[user9876]

Let's examine the evidence: http://www.atlantishealthcare.com/outcomes


Oops we can't actually examine the evidence because they don't tell us the name of the study. There's also the question of whether improved adherence actually translates into better outcomes (maybe patients are better at finding the right dose than their doctors).

They also refer to other studies for other health problems but again no title is given.

My impression: information is presented selectively to readers for the purpose of persuading them, which suggests that readers would be less likely to persuaded if they were in possession of all relevant information.

The application of our Belief-driven Behaviour Change approach is guided by research conducted by our local Health Psychology teams.

It looks like they forgot to record that they are advisors to this company that believes in a belief driven behavioural change approach as a conflict of interest.

 

[user9876]

As a software engineer I think of the brain as akin to the microprocessor, memory, etc - the hardware hosting the software. And the mind as the software/firmware/drivers that run within the microprocessor etc. The brain being the hardware, and the mind being the "code" running on it - but of course brain/mind is a much more complex beast I suspect.

Then maybe psychosomatic illness is due to bugs in the protection ring system allowing conscious thoughts to call low-level SMM like functions.

 

[A.B.]

Then maybe psychosomatic illness is due to bugs in the protection ring system allowing conscious thoughts to call low-level SMM like functions.

Before trying to figure out how it works one should make sure that this category of illness causation actually exists.

 

[alex3619]

The brain is capable of being modified (trained, adapted) through sensory input, or the lack of it, all which is very physical.

That is well within the monist framework. The issues arise because of how dualists choose to interpret brain training.

 

[user9876]

Before trying to figure out how it works one should make sure that this category of illness causation actually exists.

Yes I was just following through on the analogy that I don't think works because the brain isn't like an CPU. My comments would probably be lost on most as well since not many people understand the inner workings of the processor security model.

 

[alex3619]

Before trying to figure out how it works one should make sure that this category of illness causation actually exists.

Why of course it exists. The diagnostic category I mean. Its just made up, as in there is no proof any of it relates to the real world. Once its defined and enshrined in something, like DSM, many will defend it by pointing to the DSM. DSM 5 or any of them is just a catalogue of presumed diagnostic categories. One by one they are being removed, but that is OK, they keep inventing new ones.

In case there is any doubt, my comments here are a little sarcastic. Psychiatry has to have its codes, its not serious unless there are diagnostic codes, and they wont get paid. The fact that many psychiatrists are aware of this, and have public admitted to using whatever codes fit for pragmatic reasons, goes to show just how relevant the DSM should be considered.

 

[alex3619]

The mind is an illusion of the brain. I call it emergent.

Yes, but we are fooled by it so I am not sure I would call it an illusion. Some of what we claim about the mind is probably illusory though, the rest is a category mistake in my view. A category mistake is when something is defined as one thing, but is actually another, so any inferences you make based upon the wrong category can be a mistake.

 

[Esther12]

That article sounds like end-stage death rattle.

They are all pretty entrenched though. Just because they've got no worthwhile arguments doesn't mean that they won't be able to continue what thy've been doing for decades more.

 

[RogerBlack]

The mind is an illusion of the brain. I call it emergent.

I've come to the conclusion that to even talk about mind is misleading.

It implies selfhood, which is false.
'I' does not exist as anything outside the integrated behaviour of the brain/body/environment system, and the delusion of selfhood misleads any thoughts as to the nature of cognition.

This is perhaps not very on topic

 

[lilpink]

Not sure what to make of it, @lilpink. It seems to consist of things like text reminders to take your medicine and perhaps little reminders of the benefits. Which seems innocuous enough. I guess it could be abused though, if they extended it to monitor patient adherence or something.

Watch this.
John Weinman on You Tube talking about non-adherence, what Atlantis healthcare is all about.....patients must do what they're told!

 

[adreno]

They are all pretty entrenched though. Just because they've got no worthwhile arguments doesn't mean that they won't be able to continue what thy've been doing for decades more.

Yep, none of the institutions that really matter (NHS, Lancet, Cochrane, etc) have changed their opinion on PACE, or spoken out against it.

 

[ladycatlover]

ATLANTIS Healthcare IS interesting. But it is also very worrying:

http://www.atlantishealthcare.com/news/details/the-nhs-change-day

speechless.

 

[Invisible Woman]

Watch this.
John Weinman on You Tube talking about non-adherence, what Atlantis healthcare is all about.....patients must do what they're told!

At one point a GP accused me of not taking my levothyroxine and of deliberately trying to make myself more ill. I walked into his office and he started shouting and threw the thyroid function test results at me. They were way off and he said there was no way I had been taking thyroxine. There had been a recent death in my close family and I had had to travel and I was struggling to come to terms with having ME but, I was sure I had remembered to take the meds.

I was stunned. I had been taking my meds...I was sure I had....I was really upset.

The following day I had an appointment with an endocrinologist. I told him what had happened and gave him the results. He spotted the problem immediately. They weren't my test results.

I have had so many errors in my notes over the years and I believe that adding in apps etc will just propagate errors and cause more problems that could be resolved by having the time and inclination to communicate with the patient, adult to adult.

 

[ladycatlover]

It looks like they forgot to record that they are advisors to this company that believes in a belief driven behavioural change approach as a conflict of interest.

Should that not be reported to the Journal in question?

 

[Barry53]

Then maybe psychosomatic illness is due to bugs in the protection ring system allowing conscious thoughts to call low-level SMM like functions.

Or bugs in hardware drivers, so the hardware is not being controlled properly ... and so on. I was really just saying an analogy that works for me - and still does - but it is off topic really .