Terrible and expensive experience with Dr. Kenny De Meirleir

[Wayne]

Medicine had its heyday in the 1950’s polio era

I actually look at this period in medical history as a very dark one. A rural doctor by the name of Frederick Klenner in North Carolina discovered in 1948 that IV Vitamin C cured almost all cases of polio, even advanced ones. Like the viable alternative thereapies that were available once COVID hit, this successful IV Vit. C therapy was ignored and ridiculed because of various political and financial interests.

Dr. Klenner's work was the catalyst for Linus Pauling to do his own research into Vit. C therapies, and eventually start the orthomolecular foundation. It now regularly publishes a host of successful health therapies that are almost universally resisted by mainstream medicine.

 

[Hip]

I actually look at this period in medical history as a very dark one. A rural doctor by the name of Frederick Klenner in North Carolina discovered in 1948 that IV Vitamin C cured almost all cases of polio, even advanced ones. Like the viable alternative thereapies that were available once COVID hit, this successful IV Vit. C therapy was ignored and ridiculed because of various political and financial interests.

Dr. Klenner's work was the catalyst for Linus Pauling to do his own research into Vit. C therapies, and eventually start the orthomolecular foundation. It now regularly publishes a host of successful health therapies that are almost universally resisted by mainstream medicine.

Why do we always hear the same narrative from alternative medicine?

The narrative of the "suppressed cure that they do not want you to have"?

According to this narrative, alternative medicine has cured almost everything, but the cures are being suppressed. The fans of alternative medicine just accept this frequently repeated narrative in a totally uncritical manner (they believe it without any evidence).

In the case of Linus Pauling, all his beliefs about vitamin C were proven wrong. He believed that vitamin C would eliminate the common cold, but many studies have demonstrated that vitamin C does nothing to prevent colds. Old man Pauling also believed that vitamin C could treat cancer, and again, many studies demonstrated vitamin does not treat cancer.

Pauling was a brilliant scientist, who sadly tarnished his own legacy by getting into all this vitamin C nonsense in his old age, when his judgement may have declined. It's sad that we only remember Pauling for his vitamin C nonsense, rather than his many great scientific achievements earlier in his life.

 

[Osaca]

Why do we always hear the same narrative from alternative medicine?

The narrative of the "suppressed cure that they do not want you to have"?

According to this narrative, alternative medicine has cured almost everything, but the cures are being suppressed. The fans of alternative medicine just accept this frequently repeated narrative in a totally uncritical manner (they believe it without any evidence).

In the case of Linus Pauling, all his beliefs about vitamin C were proven wrong. He believed that vitamin C would eliminate the common cold, but many studies have demonstrated that vitamin C does nothing to prevent colds. Old man Pauling also believed that vitamin C could treat cancer, and again, many studies demonstrated vitamin does not treat cancer.

Pauling was a brilliant scientist, who sadly tarnished his own legacy by getting into all this vitamin C nonsense in his old age, when his judgement may have declined. It's sad that we only remember Pauling for his vitamin C nonsense, rather than his many great scientific achievements earlier in his life.

Thank you for saying this!

 

[Stretched]

@Hip Well said and I couldn’t agree more. I regularly get spam soliciting purchases for strangest concoctions of vitamins and weeds that promise to cure everything from hemorrhoids to loquacious mothers-in-law. How they stay in business in beyond the pale!

 

[Stretched]

…
After the stern message sent to me by Annette Whittemore I completely stopped pursuing this. I actually went back in the PR forum and saw instances of them intimidating a blogger and threatening legal action. They are very litigious and I, as a very ill person stand zero chance of surviving a legal dispute with them. I even deleted my negative review on google maps. I am genuinely scared they will still come after me.

@hmnr asg That’s surely understandable. OTOH, a federal agency is charged with protecting the public... . Also, in addition to pro bono legal efforts there are any number of lawyers who would evaluate the worth of such a case on a contingency basis in cold, hard numbers. I retired from a legal related industry and legal decisions were often monetary, e.g. put up $20k to go after $500k. Nevertheless, MECFS is a handicap and a fair consideration. I feel for you and others of us who suffer from predatory business practices. It’s a shame the good guys don’t necessarily prevail. I wish you could get your money back plus compensation from penalties.

 

[hapl808]

Why do we always hear the same narrative from alternative medicine?

The narrative of the "suppressed cure that they do not want you to have"?

Yep. The truth is sadly not very simple, and that doesn't align with the human desire for heuristics.

Alternative medicine doesn't cure everything. If it did, then antibiotics and insulin and other things would've been widely rejected.

That said, modern medicine has its dark side. The polio vaccine may have been miraculous, when it wasn't being made under inadequate conditions and literally injecting hundreds of thousands with live polio virus.

It's unfortunate that medicine has become such a financial windfall that it's impossible to separate the financial incentives from the public healthcare outcomes.

The same company that gave tens of thousands of children actual polio (Cutter), was later involved in the practice of selling HIV infected blood products to developing countries when the US would no longer accept them. That was murder - unlike the polio incident that was likely just bad manufacturing practices, they knowingly sold tainted blood because they didn't want to lose the inventory.

If I didn't have a chronic health problem, I'd probably know little of this. Members of my family without chronic health issues usually have good experiences with modern medicine. Members of my family with chronic health issues would often be better off with no interaction whatsoever with the medical establishment. I count myself as one of those people - given prednisone when I had mono, possible vaccine reaction (Hep B) that I found many years later was potentially linked to neurological issues, a physician whose physical exam was so rough he permanently damaged my ability to walk, etc.

All that said, I don't believe there's some miraculous alternative 'cure all', otherwise none of us would be here. Medicine is in the dark ages still, but we think we're at the summit.

 

[wabi-sabi]

Thank you for saying this!

Yes, exactly. It doesn't help the case of alternative medicine to tell lies about it.

I love reiki, energy work, etc, but it just doesn't cure polio, cancer or anything else. We need to appreciate these things from a perspective of understanding science and saying that vitamin C cures cancer is just the same as saying the moon is made of green cheese. We've all been hurt by idiotic arrogant doctors, but going off the deep end of pseudoscience nonsense isn't the answer.

 

[Algo]

Defending our bounderies can be a real challenge, specially when dealing with authority figures. I wonder if you could sue him.

Here's ChatGPT suggested email to the practice, maybe it can provide some ideas:

I'm not a lawyer, but I can draft a general letter for you based on the information you've provided. You should consult with an attorney to ensure it is appropriate and tailored to your situation. --- [Your Name] [Your Address] [City, State, ZIP Code] [Email Address] [Phone Number] [Date] Dr. [Doctor's Full Name] [Name of the Clinic or Practice] [Address of the Clinic or Practice] [City, State, ZIP Code] Subject: Request for Refund and Allegations of Malpractice Dear Dr. [Doctor's Last Name], I am writing to address my deep concern and distress following the treatment and services I received at your clinic on [specific date or dates]. My experience has left me both physically and financially strained, with lasting impacts that are difficult to ignore. To recapitulate: 1. I was charged a sum of $4,370 for tests and services which I now believe were unnecessary and potentially deceptive. 2. There was a delay in my seeking further medical care due to the severity of my physical state after the treatment. 3. Subsequent consultation at an urgent care facility raised concerns about potential abuse, further amplifying my distress and concern about the nature and purpose of your treatment. I kindly request an immediate refund of the aforementioned amount. Failure to respond adequately to this request within [specific time frame, e.g., "14 days from the date of this letter"] may compel me to: - Seek legal recourse and report my experiences to local law enforcement. - File a formal complaint against you with the state medical board. - Share my experiences on public platforms to raise awareness and prevent potential further instances of such treatments. This letter is not an exhaustive statement of my rights, legal or otherwise, in connection to the above matters, nor is it a waiver of any kind. I sincerely hope we can resolve this matter amicably and swiftly. I await your prompt response. Sincerely, [Your Full Name] --- Once again, please consult with an attorney before sending such a letter to ensure that you are protecting your interests and rights appropriately.

And here's some more general advice:

If you genuinely believe you have been a victim of fraud or malpractice, there are a few steps you should consider taking: 1. **Document Everything:** Make sure you have all your paperwork, receipts, medical records, and any other evidence to support your claims. 2. **Contact Law Enforcement:** Depending on the severity of your claims, it may be wise to file a report with your local police. Fraudulent activities should be reported so they can be investigated. 3. **Seek Legal Advice:** Consider consulting an attorney who specializes in medical malpractice or fraud cases. They can guide you on the best course of action. 4. **Credit Card Chargeback:** If the charges on your credit card are indeed fraudulent, you can contact your credit card provider to file a dispute. They often have protections in place for unauthorized or fraudulent transactions. 5. **File a Complaint with State Medical Board:** If you believe there has been medical malpractice, you can file a complaint against the doctor with your state's medical board. 6. **Share your Story:** Sometimes, sharing your experiences on review platforms or with local media can raise awareness about dubious practices and prevent others from becoming victims. Remember to always protect your personal and financial information. It's essential to be cautious and do thorough research before committing to significant medical expenses or treatments.

The following is my awful experience with a so called "CFS expert" known as KDM (Kenny Leo De Meirleir). I share my story so that maybe I can save some of you from wasting thousands of dollars and potentially being hurt by this crook.

Here it goes (sorry folks for the long story):
Despite reading a lot of negative reviews about him, out of sheer desperation I went to his clinic in Reno, Nevada. He practices his scam out of the Whittemore Peterson Institute (the folks who brought us the XMRV "discovery").
The whole thing felt like a scam from the beginning, but I went along with it hoping just "maybe" he can help.

Initially they gave me a brochure that said his fee is 490$ (payable by cash or credit card) and that potentially I have to pay another 200$ for food allergies. So I thought the worst that will happen is that I lose around 700$ (boy, was I wrong!).
I drove all the way there which cost me a lot more money, and energy (and I don't have much of either).

So during the visit I explain my problem and without really listening more than a minute or two he tells me he knows exactly what is wrong with me. He asked me to lay down on a bed and he proceeds to touch my abdomen and asks me if it hurts in that specific spot, to which i answered "no". He then proceeds to push his finger as hard as he could (almost a stabbing motion) which made me yell out from the pain. At this point he goes: "yes, I knew it, exactly, it hurts right there" (duh!). Then he proceeds to tell me the cfs is caused by the gut bacteria and rambles on for more than an hour about himself and his grievances against certain individuals in belgium etc. At this point I was in so much pain and I was starting to crash and I just wanted out of there.

When I thought the appointment is finished he says he will have to do some blood work. I assumed he means by a lab (like Quest or LabCorp). His receptionist made me sign a list of blood tests and asked me to sign it (which i did). He only THEN gives me the subtotal of 3200$ ! I was a bit confused at this point why they're charging me and not the lab (turns out HE is the lab!). I should have left right there and then but I gave my credit card info because I was very much confused and didnt know what else to do.

Then KDM himself proceeds to do the blood draw in his office, with a needle that really didn't seem like it came out of a sterile packaging. Also the needle was just dangling in my arm the whole time and causing pain. I have given blood on many occasions and this was the weirdest experience.

Afterwards I go to my hotel and had difficulty falling asleep from the sheer pain in my abdomen. The next day i had a large bruise on my lower abdomen and I was having trouble "going" and was experiencing severe bloating (but not being able to pass any gas).

I drove back and the next few days my pain got even worse. Also, I noticed that they withdrew 3950$ from my credit card (and not the 3200$ that they had told me).
I emailed their office and the receptionist said he had made a mistake in calculating the sum, and that the amount they withdrew is the correct one. But THEN the next week another 370$ charge was withdrawn from my account.

So at this point i'm out 4000$ + 370$ that were charged to my credit card by an entity called "RED RENO LLC" And "R.E.D. Laboratories". When I searched around they showed up as legal entities that he had set up in Reno to funnel money to himself via these nonsensical blood tests.

I asked their office for a refund at this point, to which they gave no response. Also I didnt go urgent care until after two weeks because I was in such a major crash. I still had a bruise at that spot but the doctor there really couldn't believe when I said a "doctor" had done this to me and kept pressing me to tell her if I had been abused at home.

This is my story and I regret the day I walked in to this guy's "clinic". I still have abdominal pain and bloating and I am out of almost 5000 USD (which is a lot of money for me). And all I got for it is a script for mestinon and vitamin B shots (I already take mestinon and vitamin B).

I really think KDM, with the full knowledge of this Whittemore Peterson Institute is engaged in embezzling vulnerable patients out of thousands of dollars per person.

 

[Stretched]

@Algo Good advice. Thorough preparation and understanding of your chances to prevail can secure the objective and save a lot of money and grief. To paraphrase from the Art of War: the wise king prevails over his adversaries without having to draw his sword! (Sic, but he is ready to cut his opponent to shreds if necessary.)

 

[wabi-sabi]

I think the most important phrase from the chatbot letter is

I'm not a lawyer

Remember that these chatbots may be called AI, but they really don't have any I, no matter how well they string words together. They are just a fancier version of the spell check feature on your texts, and you know how often that gets words wrong. There's an article I really liked called Resist the Urge to be Impressed on there types of computer programs here, by a computational linguistics prof:

https://medium.com/@emilymenonbende...-resist-the-urge-to-be-impressed-3d92fd9a0edd

 

[Mouse girl]

Also not only that, another scandal involved Harvey Whittemore, you can just see all the scandals he was involved in by doing a google search or just checking his wikipedia search:

Damm! I wasn't aware of all of that! I only read some but just right off the bat seeing that he was investigated by the FBI and was a lobbiest for Casinos, Alcohol etc, you know that one is shaddy beyond belief. I remember that reading about them, I saw that the couple who founded it was anti vaxxers, so I knew not to take that place seriously at all. There are just so many shaddy characters that take advantage of the most vulnerable in society, it is beyond the pale.

I'm glad you dropped the whole thing just because it would only cause you more stress. I am sorry you went through all that. I can't even add up how much money I have lost to alternative medicine con artists, or unethical MDs who seemed like they helped fibro or cfs patients but were just adding alternative medicine crap and supps in so they could buy beach houses in malibu. The Holtorph place is famous for taking so much money from people. I met dozens over the years back when we had cfs communities.

 

[Mouse girl]

Can I just say, thank you to people actually responding against alternative medicine propaganda. In the past when I've tried to even mention that endless people have been gaslit by that billion dollar business that is alternative medicine, lost so much money and worse, I have been attacked and sensored on this site. I've always come here with such trepidation due to the anti science and anti vax situation.

 

[JasonPerth]

Yes, exactly. It doesn't help the case of alternative medicine to tell lies about it.

I love reiki, energy work, etc, but it just doesn't cure polio, cancer or anything else. We need to appreciate these things from a perspective of understanding science and saying that vitamin C cures cancer is just the same as saying the moon is made of green cheese. We've all been hurt by idiotic arrogant doctors, but going off the deep end of pseudoscience nonsense isn't the answer.

Agreed.

I was mild 2016-2022 and had a Huge Crash and Cold at the same time last October and the doctor wanted to Give me IV Vit C and a Holistic friend said to find your Vit C limit and to keep taking tablets until you diarrhoea and once you get there you know your limit and to keep taking that high dose until your better.

Its now 10 months later and im bedridden and the Vit C therapy did nothing to slow my deterioration. If anything it’s progressed my deterioration.

My stomach has non stop rumbled every since around that time

 

[Algo]

You are speaking of Judy Mikovits who wrote that damn XMRV paper, got thrown in jail and came out and ended up creating the "Plandemic" documentary:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Welln...searcher-jailed-controversy/story?id=15076224
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/AID.2020.0095

Also not only that, another scandal involved Harvey Whittemore, you can just see all the scandals he was involved in by doing a google search or just checking his wikipedia search:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Whittemore
He went to prison for two years because he was using the funds from the foundation to give kickbacks to the late Harry Reid. (lots of news articles on it).

Honestly I have no idea how the Whittemore Peterson Institute survived all their scandals and are still allowed to get money in the name of CFS research.




After the stern message sent to me by Annette Whittemore I completely stopped pursuing this. I actually went back in the PR forum and saw instances of them intimidating a blogger and threatening legal action. They are very litigious and I, as a very ill person stand zero chance of surviving a legal dispute with them. I even deleted my negative review on google maps. I am genuinely scared they will still come after me.

So Judy’s xrmv research is a scam?