Temporary improvement after colonoscopy?

[nerd]

Very very interesting. I wonder if they can catalogue unknown species or only those in their database.

I think only those in the database. But their database is huge. And variants will also be recognized without any database reference of the respective variant itself. Maybe if there was a high load of unrecognized DNA/RNA fragments, this would stick out. But traces will be indistinguishable from bias. There are other methods for the recognition of new pathogens, but you will need sufficient amounts of DNA/RNA regardless. CD Genomics is a world-wide provider with a broader and less specialized spectrum of genomic testing services.

 

[Alvin2]

I think only those in the database. But their database is huge. And variants will also be recognized without any database reference of the respective variant itself. Maybe if there was a high load of unrecognized DNA/RNA fragments, this would stick out. But traces will be indistinguishable from bias. There are other methods for the recognition of new pathogens, but you will need sufficient amounts of DNA/RNA regardless. CD Genomics is a world-wide provider with a broader and less specialized spectrum of genomic testing services.

This does seem like an interesting test and if the price were affordable it would be pretty awesome to get done.
I would ask them how they handle anything not in their database, perhaps they map it and add it?

 

[nerd]

This does seem like an interesting test and if the price were affordable it would be pretty awesome to get done.
I would ask them how they handle anything not in their database, perhaps they map it and add it?

I hope you don't waste your money because of me. It might all come back negative. But asking won't hurt.

 

[EddieB]

The test I just sent off, is through Diagnostic Solutions, GI MAP test. It’s supposed to be a PCR, that detects DNA of things analyzed. Has high reviews, but I’m skeptical. We’ll see if it’s of any good.

The one I’m most interested in doing at the moment, is the IBS Smart test for food poisoning antibodies.

 

[Alvin2]

I hope you don't waste your money because of me. It might all come back negative. But asking won't hurt.

I don't have $2000 to spend

 

[nerd]

I don't have $2000 to spend

Neither do I. My insurance will only pay for German laboratories. Maybe some US insurance is willing to pay for this.

 

[EddieB]

Maybe some US insurance is willing to pay for this

I’m struggling with the insurance to pay $200 for mine, so not likely...

 

[EddieB]

I sometimes feel better when I take things that reduce ammonia. I even wake slightly refreshed but that only lasts for about 20 minutes. Plus, when I take the substance again, I can't always duplicate it.

Judee, do you know what’s causing the ammonia?

 

[Judee]

Judee, do you know what’s causing the ammonia?

I think some of it is genetics. Some people talk about the CBS mutation as well as the Suox. I think my test showed CBS but there was only one Suox SNP provided in my 23andme report. Unfortunately, it's something I'm not too smart about. I'm sorry. Maybe someone else here could add something more on that thought.

From a microbiome standpoint, Ken Lassesen addresses some of that in this post on his site: https://cfsremission.com/2017/07/01/high-ammonia-levels-in-blood/

 

[Hip]

A strange breakthrough I had years ago, involved colonoscopy. The first one was back in the ‘90’s, can’t remember exactly when. I had a colonoscopy, doctor said everything looked normal. But in the days and weeks following, nearly complete remission.

The next one was in 2014. I had been very sick for several months. Different doctor this time, same results. Several weeks later, symptoms backed off.

I had a colonoscopy not so long ago, but noticed no changes to my ME/CFS symptoms or IBS-D.

I only had a rectal laxative enema an hour before as the preparation, not an oral purging laxative, which perhaps makes a difference.

Did you try taking a purging laxative yourself, to see if you could replicate the benefits?

The Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) often used as a laxative also has some antibacterial and antiviral effects, so as well as purging the intestines, it may at the same time be killing pathogens in the gut.

 

[EddieB]

I only had a rectal laxative enema an hour before as the preparation, not an oral purging laxative, which perhaps makes a difference.

That’s good information. It kind of supports a theory, that it’s the flushing the small bowl has the effect. Since you didn’t do the “nuclear bomb”, I wouldn’t expect to notice much. Kinda like the coffee and herb enemas did nothing for me either.

Did you try taking a purging laxative yourself, to see if you could replicate the benefits?

it may at the same time be killing pathogens in the gut.

No, as I’m a bit afraid to because I’m in bad shape with what I suspect is a severe overgrowth.. And I would caution anyone else thats severe as well. The concern is, if there is an imbalance, there is no way to know what might grow back first.

What started this, I stumbled across a blog on the internet, of someone that had a major temporary improvement of their IBS symptoms after a colonoscopy. That’s when I went back through my diaries and remembered that I had a similar response. Looking further I found more testimony of the same.

At this point, this is more about theory than actual practice, at least for now. .

 

[Hip]

No, as I’m a bit afraid to because I’m in bad shape with what I suspect is a severe overgrowth.. And I would caution anyone else thats severe as well. The concern is, if there is an imbalance, there is no way to know what might grow back first.

If you look at KDM's approach, he often prescribes a week of antibiotics to kill the bad bacteria, followed by a week of strong probiotics like Mutaflor, to repopulate the bowel with beneficial bacteria.

If wonder if performing an bowel purge with Epsom salts, followed by probiotics, might work even better. I think I might try this.

 

[EddieB]

If you look at KDM's approach, he often prescribes a week of antibiotics to kill the bad bacteria, followed by a week of strong probiotics like Mutaflor, to repopulate the bowel with beneficial bacteria.

If wonder if performing an bowel purge with Epsom salts, followed by probiotics, might work even better. I think I might try this.

If you have the knowledge of what/ how to do it, I think it could be very beneficial.

I can’t find the study right now, but I saw one where they are doing what you described to treat Guld War Syndrome, and it’s working.

Again, caution is advised. Ideally one would do this with a doctor’s supervision. But I doubt anyone would ever find a doctor that would have a clue.

 

[Hip]

I have tried a similar thing before: I know an obscure yoga technique which you can use to purge your bowels. It involves drinking lots of salty water, and performing certain abdominal exercises which open the gastric sphincter so that the water runs into the intestines, and washes them out clean.

The exercise are quite exhausting to do if you have ME/CFS, but nevertheless I persevered, and purged my entire intestines in this way. I did this on several occasions. Unfortunately I did not notice any benefit.

I think Epsom salts would provide the same effect, but without needing to do the exhausting exercise.

 

[EddieB]

Very interesting.
I’m trying to get my head around what’s actually happening with this.

There’s two different circumstances here.
One is those with normal bowl function, that are doing extensive fasting, or things like you’re suggesting. These people state they have more energy, better mental clarity, etc. There must be benefits, otherwise they wouldn’t put themselves through it.

The second is those with bowel problems, like SIBO or IBS. The use of antibiotics, and antimicrobial herbs can bring temporary/ sustained improvements.

In both cases, it has to be a shift/ reboot of microbiome that’s causing the beneficial effect. The colonoscopy prep may simply be taping into this response.

But the first group simply has a turn over of flora, and do not become ill.. With the second group, if there is an improvement, it comes with the risk of relapse.

 

[EddieB]

f you look at KDM's approach

Where would I find this?

 

[Hip]

Where would I find this?

I saw it mentioned in this post.

 

[EddieB]

Do bear in mind that the appendix is considered a reservoir for gut bacteria so even when the digestive tract is cleaned out you have a backup for once the gut needs to repopulate.
Now if you could clean that out too you might get a longer term fix?

From Wikipedia...
Recent research suggests that the appendix may serve an important purpose. In particular, it may serve as a reservoir for beneficial gut bacteria.

Is it possible, that for those that can wipeout their gut bacteria, then bounce back to normal, have an appendix full of good stuff? And would a lack of an appendix cause a better/ worse situation?

 

[Alvin2]

From Wikipedia...
Recent research suggests that the appendix may serve an important purpose. In particular, it may serve as a reservoir for beneficial gut bacteria.

Is it possible, that for those that can wipeout their gut bacteria, then bounce back to normal, have an appendix full of good stuff? And would a lack of an appendix cause a better/ worse situation?

Lack of appendix might theoretically make things easier in your specific case becasue there is no reservoir?
I remember reading that the idea is the appendix is for when people have diarrhea from food poisoning, we didn't have modern medicine until recent history so that may be why we evolved an appendix. Speculation of course.

Whether it has good stuff or gets "updated" over time or repopulates the bad stuff, my guess would be that its bidirectional with the gut so great when things go as intended (hence we are prepared for food poisoning) but when things go wrong for long periods that update could lead to a repopulation of what you have now after a colonoscopy cleanse. However the rate of repopulation by species may not be identical, perhaps the bacteria/fungi/virus causing your issue repopulates slowly after a cleanse?

In the future we may develop a technique for fully purging the intestines and appendix of flora and repopulate from a medical grade stock.

 

[EddieB]

Interesting take on probiotics and bacterial overgrowth. In particular, information at 12:00 on d-lactose cycle.

I’m still skeptical of probiotic use for someone with overgrowth.