Sympathetic stuck on 'on?'

[kangaSue]

There are several free iphone apps that can measure your HRV using the phone's camera and flash light by holding your finger over both the lens and light. . I don't how accurate it is, but it's free!

I'm too old school, that ain't gonna work with my Nokia 3310 reboot phone!

 

[Jyoti]

In case anyone is interested, I just got this from Apollo Neuro:

The Spring Back Sale is here! Apollo Neuro is celebrating Mental Health Awareness month with $40 off for you, or to share with friends and family who deserve the gift of calm, focus, and sleep.

Just forward this email to friends and family, or tell them to use code MAYSALE at checkout.

 

[sb4]

I don't sweat properly either (because of Autonomic Neuropathy) and I had been wracking my brain in the last week trying to work out what I was taking that was making me sweat more, and just twigged yesterday that maybe it could be related to this vibration therapy too (which I've been doing for at least one hour daily (at the very least) for the last 18 days).

This may or may not be related. I don't sweat much anymore even when really hot in direct sun light. A couple of years back I would still sit out in the sun despite the discomfort it caused to see if I could get any benefit from the UV, IR and general light. One day my mums friend came round when I was sitting in the garden and I had a 10-15 minute conversation with her. Mid conversation I noticed I was suddenly sweating heavily (actually what a normal person would). I have never since been able to reproduce this effect.

I was reading not too long ago about a third leg to rest + digest, fight or flight, that is like conversation mode. Essentially conversation can activate that sort of parasympathetic system. It will obviously depend on what the convo is about and who it is with.

Anyway, perhaps socializing in a pleasant way allowed my autonomic system to calm down and enter a state were I can sweat. Maybe thats the same with your vibrator on skin method.

Are you still using this method?

 

[kangaSue]

Are you still using this method?

Yes I'm still using this method. Wish I could find a wearable that's a bit more discrete though, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Vibration to the lower abdomen seems to work just as well as using the ankle acupressure spot (SP-6) though so only using the ankle spot 3 or 4 times a week when resting up as I bruise very easily and moving around with device causes me significant bruising on the lower legs despite different attempts to cushion it and secure it.

Stopping using it is not an option anymore. I gave it a break for a week and the epigastric abdominal pain returned to its usual constant troublesome level. Works for me even if the effect happens to be placebo.

 

[kangaSue]

In case anyone is interested, I just got this from Apollo Neuro:

A number of websites have an Apollo Neuro affiliate link to get a 15% discount off the price of an Apollo, Ben Greenfield Fitness is one;
https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/biohacking-podcasts/apollo-neuroscience/
(link at the end of his article before comments, under the 'Resources from this episode' heading)

 

[Wishful]

Wish I could find a wearable that's a bit more discrete though, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

The vibrator in phones is a tiny motor with an off-center weight, and is probably available for under a dollar, or take one out of a discarded phone. Adding a pulse-width modulator (simple electronic circuit a friendly hobbyist could build) would let you vary the vibration frequency. You could glue the motor to a band, or put a cover over it and wrap it in place.

Instead of an arm and a leg, it probably costs only a fingernail clipping.

 

[junkcrap50]

This is still hard to believe that a little bit of vibration on ankle can stimulate the vagus nerve and the parasympathetic nervous system.

@kangaSue, have you tried measuring your HRV while you had the Apollo on or off? There are free iPhone apps that can measure HRV with or without a heart rate monitor (uses flash & camera).

 

[edwardssusanb]

I hold a vibrating stuffed animal at during my neurofeedback session and it brings me into my body and calms my system down - I find it very comforting and relaxing (and this highly charged system struggles to feel relaxed). I see mention of bullet vibrators and I see one can buy Build-a-Bear stuffed animals that have a zippered compartment in them. I'd like to make my own vibrating animal (although I'd like a longer charge than the bullet vibrators seem to hold).

 

[edwardssusanb]

Also....I just ordered an Apollo Neuro. There is a 60 day money back guarentee so there is no risk in trying it (have to pay shipping cost).

 

[Jyoti]

I hold a vibrating stuffed animal at during my neurofeedback session and it brings me into my body and calms my system down

Question: do you feel calmer and/or can you see that you are calming down via the feedback? That is really interesting.

Also....I just ordered an Apollo Neuro. There is a 60 day money back guarentee so there is no risk in trying it (have to pay shipping cost).

I hope it works for you! And as you say, if it does not, 60 days is plenty of time to know and get almost all of your money back (shipping an Apollo will be a fingernail clipping in itself). Mine is still helping me immeasurably with sleep and right now, I am using it to WAKE UP!

 

[edwardssusanb]

Regarding neurofeedback, I've had 9 sessions. I watch Moving Art (it's on Netflix) as I do my session - nature and music. Early on, I felt present in love and immersion with beauty - parasympathetic states that are difficult to access. At this point, I can't say there is any concrete, lasting changes but I am going to give it a solid try (it's covered by Medicare except for $22 share of cost) - 15 sessions at least.

Thank you for your additional input regarding your experience with Apollo. I so appreciate the 60 money back deal; it's allowed me to try a number of devices. Since I find the vibratory component of the neurofeedback session so soothing, I feel hopeful that the Apollo will help recondition by being to feel calm and at rest.

Wishing you the best.
Susan

 

[lenora]

Hello @edwardssusanb. I hadn't heard of these animals and I would like to thank you for sharing the info. It's good that Medicare will cover the cost. It also sounds like a great gift for someone in need of such....we all have too many unnecessary items. I'll have to look this up online. Yours, Lenora.

 

[edwardssusanb]

The vibrating stuffed animal that one holds during a neurofeedback session is part of the system - the vibrating element responds to the changes in brainstate. The vibration is so calming to my body but unfortunately, I have been unable to find a vibrating stuffed animal online. Someone susggested a bullet vibrator - it seems like this could work but the charge only last an hour. I found one stuffed rabbit on Walmart site that has a pocket sewn in. I thought maybe I could put the bullet vibrator into the pocket...

I did order the Apollo unit (free 60 day trial) and so will give that a go first.

 

[kangaSue]

I see mention of bullet vibrators and I see one can buy Build-a-Bear stuffed animals that have a zippered compartment in them. I'd like to make my own vibrating animal (although I'd like a longer charge than the bullet vibrators seem to hold).

I switched to using a 'personal massager' that has a variable speed control (as opposed to just a "multi speed" control) and a single charge lasts for about 10 hours when running it at the lowest vibration speed possible. Hard to find one like this in a small form though.

 

[edwardssusanb]

Can you give me more details? Brand, etc? How do you use it (in the non-"personal" ways )? I really think that holding a vibrating object would calm my body. Thank you.

 

[kangaSue]

Can you give me more details? Brand, etc? How do you use it (in the non-"personal" ways )? I really think that holding a vibrating object would calm my body. Thank you.

It's a Lelo Iris, given to me tongue in cheek by a dear friend for a 25th wedding anniversary present a couple of years ago so now a discontinued line though. Some of the other Lelo vibes looks to have a similar variable speed controller and the stated long run times, but not cheap though.

I initially used mine against the same ankle acupressure spot that the Apollo Neuro uses, held in place by a tubular compression bandage, but then found I also get the same benefit from just sitting it on my lower abdomen with the 'business end' of it sitting around acupressure points ST26, ST27 (I turn it on when I go to bed and my husband turns it off when he retires for the night, usually a couple of hours later)

I agree with what you say though and think that holding any sort of vibrating object against the body somewhere would calm the body, and maybe just from the distraction of signals to the brain. It works for me anyway and I'm noticably crankier the next day if I forget to do it.

 

[edwardssusanb]

Thank you Kanga Sue for the details. I just got my Apollo (60 day trial) today and turned it on for the first time minutes ago. I will give this a go for 2 months then take it from there (it would have to see definite results to keep it).

I like having a back up plan for delivering vibration to the body and think the sex toy vibrators are a great idea!

 

[kangaSue]

I just got my Apollo (60 day trial) today and turned it on for the first time minutes ago. I will give this a go for 2 months then take it from there

I'll be interested to know how it goes for you. I think a vibrating mat, chair, cushion, or something similar, should also do the trick of calming sympathetic nervous system excess so there's lots of other options too.

 

[edwardssusanb]

6 week update on Apollo Neuro Device. I've been using the device for upto 6 hours a day and also some nights. As stated previously, my nervous system is in a state of fight or flight often - it's very difficult to come out of that state of alertness and find that true space of relaxation and cozy ease. So, that being said....I do find comfort in putting the device on. It gives me a sense of support - like I'm not in this alone. I can't really speak to any concrete shifts aside from the sense of support and comfort in wearing it.

Will I keep it or return it in two weeks (again, I feel very grateful for the 60 day trial period)? I don't know at this point. I'll miss it if I return it but I don't notice any real changes.

If you are thinking of trying it, I say by all means DO! There is a restocking/return fee (not more than $50) if it doesn't work for you and the 60 day trial period is a generous amount of time to give it a good try. I'm happy I tried it and may very well keep it.

 

[Wishful]

So, that being said....I do find comfort in putting the device on. It gives me a sense of support - like I'm not in this alone.

That makes it sound like a teddy bear or a pet animal, which do provide valid support and comfort for some people.

To test whether it's providing a non-placebo benefit, you could come up with some way of hiding whether the device is on or off. If you don't have a human assistant, you could use a computer-controlled switch. Record your perceptions while not knowing whether the device is working, and after the test period, compare it with the actual on/off times.