Supreme Court Lets Affordable Health Care Act Stand....Implications for ME/CFS

Where's the hate you speak of? Wow, health care should be a right, looks like you are living in the wrong country, definetly not what our founding fathers had in mind.

I would like everyone to have medical treatment as needed, but reality sets in. We have 16 Trillion in debt and 1 trillion PLUS added every year lately, and no end in sight. Our politicians don't want to reform Social Security and/or Medicare etc, so the problem is just going to be exacerbated and the people will suffer, not the politicians.

My understanding is that scoring by the CBO is done the way politicians want it done, both sides do it, so its not a really good measuring stick, unless the expectations/models used are accurate, and we know people change their behaviour based on costs. Like politicians think they can keep raising taxes on cigarettes etc.., and they will just collect more money, but people change there behaviors, or find a way around these things, so less money comes and it just gets compounded.

From Thom Hartmann:


I mean, it's time to wake up to the fact that there are very real human values that are part of a successful experience of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

When Thomas Jefferson wrote those words into the Declaration of Independence,we were the first nation in the history of the world to have the word happiness in our founding document.

And consider it for a minute. You cannot have life if you don't have a social safety net, if you don't have a national healthcare program, if you don't have, if you don't know that whatever happens whether you have a job or whether you don't, whether you're born into a rich family or a poor family, no matter what, you can't have life if you don't have access to those things.

You can't have liberty if you don't have those things. As Franklin Roosevelt said so famously in 1936, in June of 1936, he said, "a necessitous man is not a free man". You're not free if you're homeless. You're not free if you're sick and you can't pay for it. You're not free if you're jobless.

And the pursuit of happiness? How can we pursue happiness when we're constantly concerned about survival. That is a pure dysfunction. If we want to get back to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the United States, we need to be seriously looking at the way they've done it in other countries that actually works.
 
Yes, it passed with only Democrats votes. Now to see if it stands, Nov. 2012 will be the ultimate judge.

GG

PS I feel bad that everyone that does not have insurance, has less access. but my impression of Drs iin this area that treat CFS, do not take insurance. So I don't think this will be a major help to most patients. We really need to get more Drs educated on CFS and some real treatments, otherwise it's not very helpful for the CFS community. Hope I am wrong in this regard.

That's a good point. I don't think most do. (Dr. Peterson is a standout in that he actually takes Medicare!) but I don't think that means patients can't get reimbursed by insurance; I think it means they have to give the doctors bills to their insurance companies directly. Does anybody know? Its been a long time since I saw a doctor for ME/CFS...
 
That's a good point. I don't think most do. (Dr. Peterson is a standout in that he actually takes Medicare!) but I don't think that means patients can't get reimbursed by insurance; I think it means they have to give the doctors bills to their insurance companies directly. Does anybody know? Its been a long time since I saw a doctor for ME/CFS...
Drs. Enlander and Natelson in New York accept Medicare too.
 
That's a good point. I don't think most do. (Dr. Peterson is a standout in that he actually takes Medicare!) but I don't think that means patients can't get reimbursed by insurance; I think it means they have to give the doctors bills to their insurance companies directly. Does anybody know? Its been a long time since I saw a doctor for ME/CFS...

Yes, that is correct.

Drs that "don't take insurance" simply don't bill directly to the insurance. The patient has to pay up front, submit the bills to their insurance company and get reimbursed directly by the insurance company. It does not mean the insurance company doesn't pay. The resources necessary for a clinic to bill directly to insurance are very high. It is expensive to the clinic in terms of manpower and paperwork and therefore adds to the cost of services from the clinic. It also takes quite a long time for a relatively new clinic to get the paperwork in place to be able to bill insurance directly, which is one reason some of our ME/CFS doctors don't have that capability (yet).

This can be very difficult for patients without a good cash flow because you have to have enough money to pay the bills up front. Even if you get reimbursed later, you are without several thousand dollars for many months. If you don't have that kind of cash to play with, you don't get to see the doctor you need.

This kind of arrangement is not a problem for well-to-do Texas Tea-Partiers, since they have money to throw around, and they don't care about the rest of us middle-class schmucks who either can't work because of our illness, or have to try to survive in this conservative-created middle-class economic crisis while paying for, say, :whistle: the medical bills (including supplements and expensive not-covered-by-insurance off-label meds) for multiple family members with ME/CFS.
 
My experience with MDs that don't bill the insurance companies directly but rather present you with a superbill to submit is that the insurance covers 10%-20% max. of the bill, and that is if you're lucky. While theoretically the MDs have not opted out of insurance, practically they have, and there is only one reason for it, and that is that they make more money, and even more important, they get their money faster (cash-flow!) because they don't have to wait for the insurance companies to approve.
 
My experience with MDs that don't bill the insurance companies directly but rather present you with a superbill to submit is that the insurance covers 10%-20% max. of the bill, and that is if you're lucky.

My experience is similar but I find the reimbursement rate is generally less than 10%.

I have been able to negotiate cash discounts often with doctors and labs that have saved me a lot of money. The amount they bill insurance is usually at least three times higher than what they will accept as payment in full. It's a pain to call and deal with the billing office but totally worth it in most cases as the savings can be significant.
 
My experience with MDs that don't bill the insurance companies directly but rather present you with a superbill to submit is that the insurance covers 10%-20% max. of the bill, and that is if you're lucky. While theoretically the MDs have not opted out of insurance, practically they have, and there is only one reason for it, and that is that they make more money, and even more important, they get their money faster (cash-flow!) because they don't have to wait for the insurance companies to approve.

I don't disagree with this overall. :) My experience, however, is that insurance has paid no less (so far) than 80% of the bill. I suppose that depends on your insurance company. The whole medical industry is terribly inconsistent.
 
I would like everyone to have medical treatment as needed, but reality sets in. We have 16 Trillion in debt and 1 trillion PLUS added every year lately, and no end in sight. Our politicians don't want to reform Social Security and/or Medicare etc, so the problem is just going to be exacerbated and the people will suffer, not the politicians.
.

It doesn't follow that universal healthcare increases costs. I believe that the US spends around 17% of GDP on healthcare which is just about the highest in the world. This compares with 9.6% for the UK in 2010 of which I believe 8% is spent on the NHS and 1.6% on private provision.
 
As a famous baseball player said, it's hard to make predictions, especially about the future. But I'm not optimistic about the results of the new law. Extremely poor people who live in states governed by actual human beings will likely benefit from Medicaid coverage. I certainly hope that includes Merry. But I live in Maine, where the foot-in-mouth governor just rammed through a law to dump FORTY THOUSAND people off Medicaid. It's not likely his handlers will allow him to change his mind and accept the new program. He's too busy cutting the state income tax rate for the highest earners.

We can be assured that the insurance companies will benefit. This law is for them, not us. The fact that some working class people might benefit is a happy accident. It's important to remember that the US, like most of the world, is a subsidiary of the FIRE sector - Finance, Insurance, Real Estate. We exist to serve them. Until the FIRE sector completely wrecks the economy (shouldn't be many more years) no substantial structural changes will happen. They will just keep piling bricks on a foundation of sand.

I have never seen or heard any discussion of just what the premiums will be. That is remarkable. Presently we have no idea whether or not working people will be able to actually pay for these policies. I predict many will not. So not only will they continue to not have real access to the medical industry, they will be assessed penalty 'taxes' for being poor. As usual.

How many of the new Medicaid patients will be able to find a doctor that will accept Medicaid? I have see no discussions of this. In Maine, most Medicaid patients are dumped into an HMO-type plan. They literally have to get permission to change providers. Fortunately I have Medicaid due to disability, so I don't have these restrictions. My biggest problem is that I can not see out-of-state providers, so I will never have the oppurtunity to see a real CFS specialist.

Someone mentioned the fact that insurance companies prefer to sell insurance through employers, and really stick it to individual policy holders. There is a simple reason for that: one has to be relatively healthy to keep a job; these are the customers the insurance companies want.

The last time I bought individual insurance in Maine, there was only one company, Anthem, selling those policies. All the others dropped their customers, including me. I have seen nothing that suggests this will change, just a lot of blather about 'insurance exchanges', in other words, a web site listing phone numbers to call and wait on hold for hours.

As always, the devil is in the details, and in the bureaucrats that interpret the regulations that no one can understand, and whether those bureaucrats expect to leave 'public service' for a cushy job in the insurance industry. God I hate being so cynical all the time. There really is bliss in ignorance.
 
I don't disagree with this overall. :) My experience, however, is that insurance has paid no less (so far) than 80% of the bill. I suppose that depends on your insurance company. The whole medical industry is terribly inconsistent.

It might also depend on how you look at it...My insurance was *meant* to pay 80% out of network. But that was only 80% of what they considered reasonable and customary and not 80% of the actual bill. So in actuality that 80% coverage ended up being about 10% of the total charge.

But of course, as you say, experiences vary as widely as the policies.

It's a racket any way you slice it.
 
Very interesting to read the comments about this from our US members. I can't comment on Obamacare, because I'm in the UK. But it's interesting to hear that some people on this forum are against it. From what I've heard about it, in the UK, I imagined that all people with CFS would be in favour of it. From a UK perspective, I've mainly heard that it was a long-overdue and well-needed bill. So it's interesting to hear people on this forum think otherwise. I imagined that most people would have @Merry's perspective on the issue. Anyway, I'm not expressing a view, because I don't know enough details, and I'm not a US citizen, so it doesn't affect me.

Hi Bob,

I think quite a few of the US citizens on the forum are going to avoid posting on this thread as it could turn easily turn into a political debate. Just to say that the yays and nays here may not statistically reflect opinions.

Sushi
Amen. I did post in this thread ... and would like to hit undo on that. Politics gets, err, odorous.
 
I would like everyone to have medical treatment as needed, but reality sets in. We have 16 Trillion in debt and 1 trillion PLUS added every year lately, and no end in sight. Our politicians don't want to reform Social Security and/or Medicare etc, so the problem is just going to be exacerbated and the people will suffer, not the politicians.
.

It doesn't follow that universal healthcare increases costs. I believe that the US spends around 17% of GDP on healthcare which is just about the highest in the world. This compares with 9.6% for the UK in 2010 of which I believe 8% is spent on the NHS and 1.6% on private provision.
Excellent point.

The only real reason we don't have universal healthcare is that our politicians have to raise fantastically large sums of money, increasingly so every year, and creating a bill did nothing for the profits of those who fund their campaigns -- big HMOs, big Pharma, etc. -- is basically impossible for the Democrats or the Republicans because their jobs depend on giveaways to their funders.

That's why I vote Green Party, which takes no corporate donations. The Green US presidential candidate is Dr. Jill Stein, a Harvard-trained physician and a leading advocate for single-payer Medicare for All who twice ran against Romney in Massachusetts

Here's what she had to say about the Supreme Court decision on her website:

Stein noted that "Obamacare is based on Romneycare, and as with so much else, Obama implemented a Republican scheme to impose mandates that are a regressive tax on working people. The Roberts Court may call it constitutional, but the mandate is still bad news for our suffering millions. Romneycare has meant that the working poor have seen a health cost increase ten times that of the wealthy. As a physician, I've seen Romneycare in action in my home state of Massachusetts. Forty percent of the people who need health coverage find that it's still too expensive for them. And a quarter of the people who seek payments get denied by their private insurers. It has failed to control costs, and as a result they are raising co-pays and attacking public employee health plans. It's a fiscal and administrative nightmare which has gutted public services in Massachusetts. Schemes developed by health industry lobbyists to enrich themselves will never take care of our real needs.”
http://www.jillstein.org/romneycare_and_obamacare

When Jill debated Romney during the Mass Governor's race, the Boston Globe described her as "the only adult in the room." -- http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/173128-1
 
It might also depend on how you look at it...My insurance was *meant* to pay 80% out of network. But that was only 80% of what they considered reasonable and customary and not 80% of the actual bill. So in actuality that 80% coverage ended up being about 10% of the total charge.

But of course, as you say, experiences vary as widely as the policies.

It's a racket any way you slice it.

A racket indeed. :rolleyes:

I suppose I'm either fortunate in my insurance or in my choice of physicians. I'm also not in an HMO, which may be beneficial in this case.

However you slice it, though, the medical industry is making money hand over fist and patients are suffering for it.
 
Talking to doctors will really help everyone understand. This will not help anyone. We have seen what happens to other countries.

I live in one of those "other countries", and things are quite good here. My insurance after getting sick now costs half of what it did in the US prior to getting sick. It's a very similar situation to Obamacare - there are private insurers that are required to offer certain services. No one can opt out, people that can't afford it are covered, etc.

I'm not sure what horrible things you think are happening in Europe and elsewhere. Waiting times here to see doctors about the same, as is appointment length. All doctor visits and prescribed meds are fully covered. There's a "deductible" of something like 100 euros for the entire year, except it's actually in the form of a refund if it isn't used. No one takes out their checkbook or debit card in a doctor's office, or a drug store, or a hospital. It's an amazing and safe feeling.

The money to pay for the system comes from all the lucky, currently healthy people, who are also forced to pay into the plan. Then one day they'll be the old sick people, and younger folks will be helping keep their rates low.

So what, exactly, is bad about any of this?
 
I don't think that many people in the UK would swap our system for anything else either, and definitely not for the US system.
Sure, it's not perfect, and we complain about it a lot, but overall it really does look after us from birth to death when we really need it.
Personally, I think it's the best thing about our country, and I hold it in very high regard.
Yes, CFS patients are neglected, but I think that's more of a social-care issue and a political corruption issue rather than a health care issue.
 
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