Supplements that help with muscle fatigue/pain

bertiedog

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I have been struggling all this year with bad fatigue and bad pain in my muscles, especially my shoulders and it has now radiated a bit down the top of my right arm. I also have sciatica which varies day to day.

It seems to be the result of a gradual downward slide last year, probably due to too much ongoing stress caused by an obnoxious women who was in charge of volunteers where I used to do voluntary work for just 2 sessions a week. I had been doing that for nearly 10 years and used to love it but I had to give it up mid January because my ME had completely flared and I was too unwell to continue. I thought I would bounce back but it just hasn't happened.

My adrenals don't function so I have to take a steroid daily and this would have added to my problem because of the extra stress last year and probably I didn't stress dose enough. Some days recently I have taken a little more (7.5mg Prednisolone) and for the first day I noticed an improvement, did a little more and then by the 3rd day of the higher dose felt back to where I was. with no improvement in pain.

My muscles are especially affected and wondered if anyone here has had success with this sort of problem by taking specific supplements. I already take around 400 mg magnesium citrate/glycinate, omega 3, vitamins e and a, lots of the b vitamins, glucosamine/chrondroitin, vitamin C, high dose antioxidant, low dose calcium citrate, and probably a few others I cannot remember at the moment.

Whenever my GP has ordered a blood test when I am like this it comes back low CRP and low ESR which always surprised me. I have some osteoarthritis which also flares when I am like this.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Pam
 

Sing

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I have to do a lot of stretching as well as firm massage with a roller that I lie on, in any position I need to get to the tightest part of a muscle. A lot of us have a lot of lactic acid that builds up in muscles (and all over the place) from what some research has shown is a switch from a primary glycolysis process for energy production to the backup option instead, in which a lot of lactic acid is produced. Lactic acid is known to cause aching. So clearing it is important for improving that aching.

The medication that helps me is Gabapentin.

But you asked about supplements. Kava is a great one for multiple purposes. It seems to anchor my nervous system. I sleep much better with it—more deeply—and wake up much more restored. And it helps with pain, muscle pain. I feel no negative side effects from Kava.

Tryptophan can help some with pain too.
 

Hope4

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@bertiedog Hi Pam. :). I'm sorry that so much pain and stress has come to you. :hug:

Supplements which help me have less muscle pain, and less tightness:

magnesium malate
Vitamin E, mixed tocopherols
hyaluronic acid. (It seems to work in a more direct way than glucosamine chondroitin, tho' I take that sometimes, too.)

Supplements which reduce the stress for me:

the above, plus
minerals, esp. lithium orotate
N-Acetyl-Glucosamine

I, too, find slow stretching, relaxing into the stretch very helpful. I do a longer routine in the morning, and a short one at night. Longer at night would help me, too, but I get impatient to go to bed. :)

I hope you feel much better really soon. :tulip:
 

Moof

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For fatigue, I find high-dose BCAAs (branched-chain amino acids) very helpful. It's one of the few supplements I've taken in several decades where the effect never wears off.

One theory is that people with ME rely on alternative fuel sources for some of their energy, burning amino acids and fatty acids instead of glucose; so if we supplement amino acids, we may have more fuel available. Another is that these amino acids compete for uptake with tryptophan, so if we are in the 'tryp trap' proposed by Dr Phair, they may be helping by lowering the amount of tryptophan we can absorb from our diet.

I don't know what proportion of ME sufferers benefit from BCAAs, but there seems to be a sub-group that does. The supplement comes in tablet form (which are pretty large!) and powder (the unflavoured variety apparently tastes appalling, so best to get flavoured). I don't have any trouble swallowing huge tablets, so that's the only form I've tried.
 

Plum

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I 2nd BCAAs. BUT I have found that taking them daily doesn't work for me. On days I overdo it a bit I will take them and this is where I notice reduced symptoms the next day. I take 1.5 x the recommended dose. It mainly helps me with pain.

The other thing that has helped a lot is my heart rate monitor watch. I found by really limiting steps done in a day down to a certain level, my pain reduced by about 50%. The reason I found the watch useful in this is that I wasn't realising all the unnecessary extra steps I was taking in a day. For example - when I make a meal, I think very carefully ahead so that I take fewer trips to the fridge for example. All the little extra trips to a room to just get 1 thing really adds up.
 

Moof

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I 2nd BCAAs. BUT I have found that taking them daily doesn't work for me. On days I overdo it a bit I will take them and this is where I notice reduced symptoms the next day. I take 1.5 x the recommended dose. It mainly helps me with pain.
I agree with this – I don't take them every day as a matter of routine, I use them as a recovery strategy after I've exerted myself to the point that I'm at risk of PEM. They reduce or prevent the huge immune flare-up that's the worst symptom for me, but they also help with pain.
 

bertiedog

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Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

I have problems with BCAA they overstimulated me in the past and I couldn't sleep plus from memory I think I became too aggressive (I am homozygous for COMT and MAO which aren't great combos).

This morning I tried to take some whey protein powder but with everything that has happened I am now intolerant of any dairy (as well as gluten) and within an hour and a half of taking a smoothie my body had eliminated it all in a very uncomfortable way! I felt awful all morning with my blood sugar all over the place and now have a migraine developing but do feel better in myself at least.

One thing I have tried this morning is half a capsule of Reishi mushroom. The one I have is a very high dose 1000 mg in a capsule, hence me taking half. I remember it did help with the fatigue but again I have to be very careful dosage wise because I very easily get insomnia. I have also upped the magnesium glycinate and added some green lipped mussels.

Fingers crossed these will help but yes I know I have to rest more especially in the mornings. I usually improve by mid afternoon and am able to go for a short walk with my dog which helps me to feel better in myself.

I am going to make a note of all the suggestions so thanks again.

Pam
 

Plum

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@bertiedog I have similar snps to you. I used to do very well with Reishi.

Only a thought about BCAAs - when they were 1st recommended to me I looked into how they are made and wasn't at all happy with them. I wonder if some of the processes used in extracting them might leave traces of something our bodies don't agree with etc. I know for example feathers are used!! I have found a vegan 1 by Solgar which I've not had issues with. I'm also taking capsules so not a huge dose like powder would be. Has no additives either. I know some of the powders that you mix up come with all sorts. Just a thought.
 

bertiedog

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@bertiedog I have similar snps to you. I used to do very well with Reishi.

Only a thought about BCAAs - when they were 1st recommended to me I looked into how they are made and wasn't at all happy with them. I wonder if some of the processes used in extracting them might leave traces of something our bodies don't agree with etc. I know for example feathers are used!! I have found a vegan 1 by Solgar which I've not had issues with. I'm also taking capsules so not a huge dose like powder would be. Has no additives either. I know some of the powders that you mix up come with all sorts. Just a thought.
Thanks for that information, I didn't know there could be issues in he processing of them. Solgar is easy to get hold of but I am going to see how the pain/energy goes with the Reishi and green lipped mussels. If there isn't any good benefits I would definitely try the Solgar BCAA.

Pam
 

ljimbo423

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I have been struggling all this year with bad fatigue and bad pain in my muscles, especially my shoulders and it has now radiated a bit down the top of my right arm. I also have sciatica which varies day to day.
Hi Pam- I have pain in my upper left back and front right ribs sometimes and it's very painful. It's a dull radiating aching pain, very painful! Usually only happens when I feel tired. Don't have any suggestions for that other than an easy stretch, that's what I do that helps briefly.

I also have the sciatica issue. I've learned how to sit in a chair and twist my upper torso by grabbing the back of the chair, which usually pops the vertebrae in my lower back, back into place and stops the pain.

High dose coq10 and low dose P5P also have helped me a lot with energy. As has low dose N-acety-l-tyrosine, which boosts neurotransmitters.
 

bertiedog

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Learn meditation for pain. I used the Headspace App. Basics 1, Basics 2, Chronic Pain specifically.
Green CBD oil helps pain (gold doesn't).
Gabapentin (aka neurontin).
Aleve, tylenol.
I have just started an 8 week course on meditation but it was one of the things that gave me PEM because I stupidly walked my dog straight after the class without resting first!

Pam
 

Gingergrrl

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bad pain in my muscles, especially my shoulders and it has now radiated a bit down the top of my right arm.
This has been a consistent problem for me (pain on the right side of my neck and right shoulder that radiates down my right arm). I know what initially caused it in my case but have never found anything that has brought any significant relief.

It seems to be the result of a gradual downward slide last year, probably due to too much ongoing stress caused by an obnoxious women who was in charge of volunteers where I used to do voluntary work for just 2 sessions a week. I had been doing that for nearly 10 years and used to love it but I had to give it up mid January because my ME had completely flared and I was too unwell to continue. I thought I would bounce back but it just hasn't happened.
I am sorry that you are no longer able to do your volunteer job of ten years.

My muscles are especially affected and wondered if anyone here has had success with this sort of problem by taking specific supplements.
Is the main issue muscle weakness or muscle pain (or a combination of both)? I never found any supplements that helped my muscle weakness (and then discovered the cause was neuromuscular due to autoimmunity and I did find treatments that reversed it but not sure it would be relevant to your situation)? I have found things that can help the pain short-term (Salonpas pain patches, pain med, ice or heat, certain PT stretches, TENS unit, and avoiding typing or texting too much on my phone which exacerbates the pain 100% of the time).

Whenever my GP has ordered a blood test when I am like this it comes back low CRP and low ESR which always surprised me.
My CRP and ESR were always in the normal range as well (even when my arm muscles were so weak that I could not open a water bottle or cut food with a knife, etc). Many of the standard tests were useless in my case.
 
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bertiedog

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Update - I always hate writing something that is very positive because it usually goes wrong but here goes anyway.

It's my 4th day of taking half a capsule of Red Reishi. I am not certain of the dose but I am going to put a link to the one I am taking. It says high dose and I think this is definitely true. Also I have been taking just under half a capsule of Cordyceps for 2 days and again I am going to put the link to the one I am taking. They both feel extremely effective with regard to a sense of well being which I haven't had for so long and good increase in stamina and energy.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reishi-M...lent-to-10-000mg-Vegan-Caps/263838779164?var=

Also for 4 days I have been taking 200 mg carnitine which is well out of date but as it was in the cupboard I thought I would take it as well as I know its involved in energy.

I do feel so much better and this is probably also because I have upped my steroid from 6mg Pred plus 2.5 h/c to 7 mg Prednisolone, not a big increase at all but I started this dose 7 days ago but wasn't feeling much better apart from the first day of the raise. I just seemed to settle back into more pain and fatigue and hence my original post.

That feeling has definitely changed into something much more positive.

My shoulders still ache at times but I have started to do some exercises from a You Tube video which I think helps and tomorrow I am going to have a massage but I really want to continue with the exercises, hopefully morning and evening if I am not too tired then.

I have done quite a bit of research on Reishi and there is plenty of positives in its use with regard to increased stamina and fatigue plus positive effects on the immune system too. There are various trials with it combined with chemo therapy, again they seem to be positive. There isn't so much on Cordyceps but the Chinese have used it again for stamina and fatigue and increased libido.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cordycep...nts-1-Month-Sup/123268147961?epid=15021710626

The only slight possible side effect of the above is that I woke up last night around 3 am and couldn't get back to sleep properly till gone 4.30 but I was able to wake up just after 7 and got up soon after that not feeling tired at all.

Fingers crossed things don't go downhill and that I continue to PACE myself to avoid any further crashes.

Pam
 

Gingergrrl

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Update - I always hate writing something that is very positive because it usually goes wrong but here goes anyway.
I feel the same way and the minute that I share something positive, it usually reverses itself or goes away... but I am glad you posted anyway and even more glad that you are feeling better! Fingers crossed that it lasts and that you will continue to feel better :hug: :star::star:
 
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Be careful with the reishi and cordyceps. Cordyceps gives me chest tightness/pain, palpitations, anxiety, insomnia, restless legs and a stupidly increased metabolism (hungry every hour usually) and these symptoms just get worse the more you take. I seem to react the same way to all adaptogens, regardless of what kind they are, can be mushrooms, cordyceps, ginsengs or licorice/astragalus. Anyway I'd advise caution because even though they are all fantastic in emergencies (for me) I might take them for a week or two if I am so severe that it feels like I'm dying, but other than that I only use them for long days out that can't be helped. Saying that the "better" you feel overall, in terms of your excercise tolerance, the more quickly the adaptogens hit your system and increase your energy levels. When you're very poorly (low excercise tolerance) taking a tablet of ginseng won't have any affect for about (potentially) 3 weeks. Why this suddenly happens (I was in remission for all intensive purposes until about a month ago) I don't know.

The reishi is probably the lest stimulating for me that I've found and probably has the best health benefits due to the vitamin d, the beta glucans and the amino acid content (which is very high in mushrooms).

Out of interest how are you now @bertiedog ?

I am about to try BCAA's next week as my fatigue has got quite bad after crashing on oxymatrine (not the only factor).
 

bertiedog

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The reishi is probably the lest stimulating for me that I've found and probably has the best health benefits due to the vitamin d, the beta glucans and the amino acid content (which is very high in mushrooms).
Yes I agree with you Reishi is good and less stimulating than Cordyceps so I have now worked up to 1 Reishi daily which is said to be equivalent to 1000 mg but states something like 450 mg on the label and I add a touch of Cordyceps, I guess about an eighth of a capsule. When I tried half a Reishi and half a capsule of Cordyceps I had very bad insomnia and didn't get to sleep till around 3 am or later.

I really like the effect the mushrooms have on my energy, they really help me and I have been able to up my steps again to even 10,000 steps on some days and just over 8000 on the others. This is how I was in the summer on previous years but certainly not this year.

The only time recently that my energy was awful was last Sunday when I managed to give myself 24 hours of food poisoning and then I could barely manage 4000 and obviously no daily walk.

My understanding is that these medicinal mushrooms contain a high level of polysaccharides and this should be helpful for me because of having a mild form of hyper mobility and issues with a lack of collagen. Because of this I joined the EDS Facebook group who mention Maitake for their polysaccharides. This week I have made the mistake of adding in at breakfast PQQ, half a capsule at first which was 10 mg but the past 2 days a full capsule of 20 mg. Had a pretty quick horrible reaction, it felt like I had drunk 10 cups of a strong coffee which made me feel shaky, unable to be upright and made my muscles hurt and ache.

It massively overstimulated my adrenals I guess which are rubbish anyway as I don't make cortisol anymore and am steroid dependent. Yesterday I couldn't understand why I felt so bad and unable to be upright but thankfully I had the sense to rest and take another 10 mg Propananol making a total of 20 mg yesterday and today. When the same thing happened this morning I did a search on PR and somebody else mentioned overstimulation similar to caffeine when they tried PQ for energy so I knew immediately what was happening and what caused yesterday's reaction.

Actually yesterday it was obvious something was overstimulating my brain as well. It was like I was on speed and I didn't like it one bit. I can still feel it a bit now, my brain having too many thoughts one after another. I won't take any tomorrow and not sure if I will bother with it at all again as I am not sure whether there is any science yet to prove whether it does help with cellular energy or not.

Thank you so much for asking how I am doing but I am so happy to say I am in a much better place than when I started this thread and very grateful that the Reishi has helped me so much (in addition to having a bit of extra steroid for 10 days but the past few days I have been able to drop back to my original dose). I would love to be able to drop it further with the help of the Reishi but I am going to be patient.

Finally I still need to take my normal anti migraine med which is Lyrica at 25 mg bedtime (don't think it really dose help with migraine but helps me to sleep) along with just 1/2 mg Melatonin. On these I am finally getting some deep sleep at night, sometimes over an hour according to my Fitbit plus lots of REM sleep. However on average I only sleep for 6 half hours but I can sleep from say 11.15 pm - 5 pm in one go which is great. I then need my first 2.5 mg Pred and thyroxine and with a great effort can sometimes go back to sleep till say 6.30 but it takes a long time to achieve this and some mornings I cannot.

All in all dare I say it but I feel a new person in general but still get some really bad dips, usually first thing in the morning (adrenals) and when I had that food poisoning I did feel like death.

I really hope you get some help to feel better from the BCAAs, they didn't suit me because they caused an imbalance in my neurotransmitters and I remember they were another supplement that overstimulated my brain - it can happen very easily!

Pam
 
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Thanks for the update Pam.

Maybe I will try taking the cordyceps and mushroom gold in smaller amounts. I know ginseng builds up in the blood stream so basically the longer you take it even in tiny amounts it will eventually cause all the side effects i mentioned. On tcm websites this is a well documented and important point about ginseng. However this information is buried on the internet under a mountain of primarily American articles that know nothing about herbs at all. Also many of the tcm sites need translating but most have just dropped off the face of the earth wirh googles enhanced algorithms (rant over).

I've spoken to a few people on the forum about bcaas but I think you might be confusing this treatment for taking tyrosine or trytophan or glutamine. All of which can cause some unpleasant side effects. I'm not saying they won't for me!

Thanks :)
 

bertiedog

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I've spoken to a few people on the forum about bcaas but I think you might be confusing this treatment for taking tyrosine or trytophan or glutamine. All of which can cause some unpleasant side effects. I'm not saying they won't for me!
No it was definitely a reaction to BCCA, even whey has done this to me in the past but now I cannot tolerate any dairy at all. This is what I read from Wiki -

Amino acid neurotransmitter - Wikipedia

An amino acid neurotransmitter is an amino acid which is able to transmit a nerve message across a synapse. ... There are inhibitory amino acids (IAA) or excitatory amino acids (EAA). Some EAA are L-Glutamate, L-Aspartate, L-Cysteine, and L-Homocysteine. These neurotransmitter systems will activate post-synaptic cells.

Pam