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Supplements seem to have zero effect on me

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,780
Location
Alberta
Having done NutrEval tests for 10 years and having seen about 150 from others, no one is not deficient in something.

Isn't it possible that people vary in their optimum levels for nutrients? That will make even incredibly healthy people show 'deficiencies' according to those 'normal' values. If we were all experiencing health problems from deficiencies, I would expect more peer-reviewed studies showing clear benefits from monitoring and supplementing (and avoiding excesses, as percyval577 pointed out).

I'm amazed at how well we function for long periods with diets that are inadequate in terms of nutrients. I followed a very nutrient-deficient diet for years (trying to avoid worsening symptoms) and never noticed any effects from deficiencies. Our bodies seem to be very effective at managing nutrients, which is logical, given that we evolved in circumstances with seasonal nutrient deficiencies. I believe that most of the daily supplements taken by most people are wasted. A small minority of people have genuine problems with absorption, or elimination, or whatever, and do get a benefit from some supplements. Some others have other variations in their biochemistry and get a benefit from artificially boosting some nutrients. For the majority however, I expect the main benefits from supplements comes from making/selling them.
 

pspa123

Senior Member
Messages
105
I don't have great confidence in NutrEval if that is the comprehensive Genova Labs test. Several years ago, I had the test just a couple of months after another doctor had ordered one component of the test from the same lab, I think the overlap was organic acids. Although basically nothing had changed in terms of how I was feeling or what I was taking, the results were dramatically different, where I had two results I went from showing low on some tests to high and vice versa. Neither my doctor nor the lab responded to my request for an explanation. Hopefully my experience was atypical and the test is more than a random snapshot but as I said it didn't inspire confidence that the results were meaningful or that the lab was accurate.
 

pspa123

Senior Member
Messages
105
Isn't it possible that people vary in their optimum levels for nutrients? That will make even incredibly healthy people show 'deficiencies' according to those 'normal' values. If we were all experiencing health problems from deficiencies, I would expect more peer-reviewed studies showing clear benefits from monitoring and supplementing (and avoiding excesses, as percyval577 pointed out).

I'm amazed at how well we function for long periods with diets that are inadequate in terms of nutrients. I followed a very nutrient-deficient diet for years (trying to avoid worsening symptoms) and never noticed any effects from deficiencies. Our bodies seem to be very effective at managing nutrients, which is logical, given that we evolved in circumstances with seasonal nutrient deficiencies. I believe that most of the daily supplements taken by most people are wasted. A small minority of people have genuine problems with absorption, or elimination, or whatever, and do get a benefit from some supplements. Some others have other variations in their biochemistry and get a benefit from artificially boosting some nutrients. For the majority however, I expect the main benefits from supplements comes from making/selling them.

The point of this thread was not at all to be argumentative rather to see if others shared my experience, but in my dealings with functional medicine doctors there has seemed to be a circularity in their basic thinking -- that if I am not feeling well, it MUST be the result of some nutritional imbalance or deficiency. Doubtless this is the case for many people, but so far I am not convinced it's true for me, and I have put a great deal of thought, effort, and research into this and I am not saying it with any agenda.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,406
Location
Austria
And yet, innumerable people who get their dinner from a dumpster, supplement it with cheap wine, and sleep under a bridge are well..

It of course is true that some live relatively healthy without supplementation and major diseases. All a given by different biochemical individualities, metabolism and detox capacities. It's however also true as industrialization proceeds, there are less and less who age healthy.

But also working in a homeless shelter, for those who worked there long enough and repeatedly saw homeless people deteriorate very fast from early middle age onward, see them most often drop death very early. Bud sadly, such a lifestyle can also end for decades on end in nursing-homes.
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,428
Location
Southern California
while innumerable other people who obsessively watch their diet, spend most of their day in a warm bed, and take a couple dozen supplements every day are sick.
You might have cause and effect reversed. Pre ME/CFS, I didn't need megadoses of vitamins and supplements to function. I had a fairly nutritious diet, never did eat a lot of sugar or white flour etc. and was able to work full-time plus be physically active after work and on the week-ends - long walks, bike rides etc.

Post-onset of ME/CFS, I could no longer do any of those things. And in a desperate quest to improve my functioning, found the hard way that forcing myself to try to push through exhaustion didn't work and only made me sicker. I was forced to spend much of my day "in a warm bed" as you put it. I didn't get sick because I was physically inactive, I was physically inactive because I was sick.

I found through a ton of reading and experimentation and seeing what worked for others that megadoses of certain things improved my energy and functioning. I didn't need these megadoses pre-ME/CFS. So these megadoses did not cause me to be sick; rather, they are the result of being sick. And they have helped. People who have known me for years are well aware that my functioning today is quite a bit better than 10 years ago, though still much more limited than a healthy person. And I have seen a direct correlation between certain supplements and improvement. There have also been dozens of other things I have tried that did not help me, and I no longer take those things.

innumerable people who get their dinner from a dumpster, supplement it with cheap wine, and sleep under a bridge are well...
Theoretically you could eat well out of a dumpster and if you're healthy to begin with, you'd probably do pretty well. It all depends on what you eat. If you eat a lot of sugary white flour food out of a dumpster, you'd be much more likely to develop the same conditions as your more wealthy brethren - diabetes, obesity, heart issues etc. But I agree, it is possible to get enough nutrition from a dumpster if you have a good dumpster.

About the wine, it depends on how much you drink of course. Anyone who drinks too much (whether cheap wine or expensive brandy) will damage their liver and can develop malnutrition etc. So cheap wine all by itself isn't harmful, it's just how much you drink.

And I believe that once an effective treatment for ME/CFS is found, I no longer will need these megadoses of supplements to function. But there seems to be something in the metabolic malfunctioning of ME/CFS that greatly increases the need for certain nutrients. Maybe it would be like trying to drive a car with flat tires. It would be hard to get going I would think so one would need a very powerful engine to push past the defect of the flat tires, if that makes any sense. And so megadoses of certain vitamins and supplements help me drive a bit better despite the flat tires.

And of course we are all so different, what I take might harm someone else or at the least not help them. We've all seen this. But we have all also seen so many people here who have been helped by sometimes megadoses (but not always mega doses) of various things. It's not all in our heads, this improvement in functioning.
 

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,505
Location
Great Lakes
I don't think that your body not responding means this is something psychological for you.

My body responds to some things but only on a very temporary basis and only with a tiny response (maybe about .5%) which I pick up on because I'm hyper sensitive. You might just have normal sensitivity or even be hypo sensitive and so cannot detect such a small change.

You did mention responding to lycine for the herpes. This disease is so layered and multi-dimensional that I would say focus on that and maybe anti-virals like Red Marine Algae right now. Or discuss anti-virals with your doctor if you haven't tried them already to see if they would help. Once you start working on that level of your disease maybe you will discover responses on other levels.

Anyway, just a thought. :)
 
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Messages
39
I think your looking at supplements in rather a simplistic way.


I had my mitochondria function tested (blood test) by Dr Myhill. The results suggested my body was producing about half as much as a healthy person's. Subsequently I was given masses of supplements of substances I apparently tested low in but after several months my health hadn't improved. In fact I had a massive crash.


Six years later I still feel sad about it. My health has improved recently which I put down to symptomatic relief, luck and pacing. It's slightly scary now though, knowing there's something genuinely wrong with my body, and attempting to pace as the sole source of managing it.


I still sometimes wonder if it might have helped if we'd had sufficient support with doing the protocol. My GPs always refused point blank to take anything related to my health seriously and although my parents are bright, they're not medically trained in any way. We were very much working in the dark.