Subcutaneous NAD for IDO trap?

LaurelB

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Hi all

I'm sure this has been discussed extensively elsewhere in the group but I have severe ME and it's hard for me to skim through posts, so I appreciate your patience. My doctor is interested in trying low dose subcutaneous NAD (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide ) with me, based on Davis/Phair's research on the IDO metabolic trap hypothesis. Is this something worth pursuing? I do recall Phair saying it could be dangerous to mess with the trap without further research, so just want to be sure it would be safe. Has anyone else experimented with low dose NAD? Thanks.
 
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nerd

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As far as I understand the metabolic trap hypothesis, the challenge will be to get the Niacin or IDO1 upregulating therapeutic into the affected cell types. Such technology already exists that would allow cell-type targeting. But it's still in research. The alternative is to target all cells and this leads to an overconcentration in unaffected cells, which may cause risks and side effects. Niacin might cause more side effects than NAD+, e.g. the flush effect. But NAD+ might not cover all the pathways Niacin would. I've taken Nicotinamide Riboside for a long time, which is a direct precursor to the NAD+ system, without any issues.

Subcutaneous injections are more slowly resorbed than infusions. A France company currently develops subcutaneous injections that can last for months to years, but I doubt that this is the same technology. So there isn't much of a difference. However, infusions can be interrupted if necessary. Once injections are in, they are in. And there is a tiny risk that the subcutaneous injection gets into the bloodstream directly, which would release all of it at once. So a physician should do it who knows his stuff.

From my experience with Niacin, Nicotinamide, and Nicotinamide Riboside, I haven't noticed much of a difference.
 

junkcrap50

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NAD+ infusions can have terrible side effects (severe malaise, severe nausea, muscle burning, shortness of breath, headaches. ) during the infusion of the medication that is dependent on the rate of administration. They're gone immediately when you stop the infusion. You have to drip the infusions, very, very slowly. I had to drip mine 6 to 12 drops per minute, so ~0.1-0.5ml/min or 1 drop every 5-10 seconds. If you administer a dose subcutaneously, you MUST have the dose be very, very small or else you will induce terrible side effects that could last for a very long time (until the subq NAD is fully absorbed).

I have only done NAD+ infusions and know of others who have done it. Subcutaenous NAD+ hasn't really been a thing yet. However, I know that @mitoMAN has done subcutaneous NAD by himself. I think he had side effects dependant ont he dose size, but I can't remember for sure. He can give you some more info..
 

LaurelB

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And there is a tiny risk that the subcutaneous injection gets into the bloodstream directly, which would release all of it at once. So a physician should do it who knows his stuff.
She was going to have me give it to myself, and I definitely don't know my stuff. :) So, that concerns me some. Thank you both for the informative replies. I will have to read up more on all this.