Study on Medical Gaslighting

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

The woman in the article, was she so horribly depressed about nothing, really?

By " ... nothing...", I meant the kind of miasmic, dismal, deep depression that has a diffuse etiology. Not that there was nothing to be depressed about, but that the depression was so intensely global in its expression that its source was difficult to isolate and pin down emphatically. It's just .... there .... like a constantly suppurating wound, but without an immediately visible source ....

 

[andyguitar]

The woman in the article, was she so horribly depressed about nothing, really? Just a brain imbalance?

Yes. Endogenous Depression. Not caused by an outside event ie traumatic event. Biological in origin.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I read that article in the NYT too! It was really fascinating.

Wasm't it?

Some other people have depression because something awful has happened to them. But what I'm wondering is, are these too experiences the same?

I'm not sure if it makes a difference whether you were stabbed by a kitchen knife or a sharpened lance, the wound in both cases is real, and if left unattended, the patient runs the risk of bleeding to death either way.

What is clear is that the reason so many depressions dont yield to treatment with SSRI's, SNRI's, MAOI's etc is because the genesis of the depression is NOT entirely due to a lack of neurotransmitters, or faulty synapses.

Or had something happened that was beyond human bearing and brain stimulation the only thing that made it better?

I'm not sure how that would work. Severe reactions to awful life-changing traumas may be temporarily helped by tricking the brain, but long term? Not certain.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Yes. Endogenous Depression. Not caused by an outside event ie traumatic event. Biological in origin.

I was deliberately trying to avoid the use of endo- and exo- depressions, because there's a thin line between them, outside of the most obvious trauma induction in the latter.

Exo depression is often triggered by an outside event that acts on a previously unrecognized condition, either genetically imposed or biological i origin, like that piece of questionable fish at dinner.

Not making light of it, just trying to simplify why it's often a tough call ... and why, ultimately, it might not make much differnce which you suffer from, unless you can CRISPER the genetic hoo-hah that's causing the depression ...

So far, medical science has been quite satisfied with the easy answers that spring from the prscription pad, and often cause complications and severe worsenings of exactly the thing they're supposed to treat. As a result, not much more has been done to dig deeper, and maybe find an answer like the brain pacemaker, possibly because that would inhibit Dr's incomes severely.

I wonder if there's a gene for cynicism, or if I came by it honestly after multiple exposures ?

EDIT ... for the usual idiot typo .... just the one this time. Well, one word, 3 typos.

 

[wabi-sabi]

I wonder if there's a gene for cynicism, or if I came by it honestly after multiple exposers ?

I'm sure it's multifactorial.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

But I think we need to be careful in thinking about depression.

there are definately numerous forms of: depressed. And we likely do also have actual chemical imbalances some what along those lines. Sometimes medications are extremely helpful. Othertimes not.

Our bodies are clearly in a depressed state. Thats I think is inarguable.

But was just laughing earlier!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I sort of think of it as depressed, versus depressing.

Our illness is depressing.

One feels depressed.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I'm sure it's multifactorial.

I’m pretty sure it’s unifactorial and uncompounded, and based entirely on the experiential and highly instructive exposures to the medical community over the last decade or so ….

Just to make sure, I askd DB, who reminded me of a pop-psych test we each took many years ago. After 50 questions, the results were that DB might be comfortable living in a well-appointed cave, and that I was Pollyanna-ish to a degree that suggested that I not should probably not leave the house unaccompanied ….

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Our bodies are clearly in a depressed state. Thats I think is inarguable.

You underestimate me ....

 

[Rufous McKinney]

who reminded me of a pop-psych test we each took many years ago.

sounds like a fun test.....

 

[wabi-sabi]

I’m pretty sure it’s unifactorial and uncompounded, and based entirely on the experiential and highly instructive exposures to the medical community over the last decade or so ….

I didn't intend it to sound meanspirited- just that we all have complicated stories.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

His time completely wasted. Six transfers, to six parties. The final authority- my doctor listed all the Drugs I'd tried...none of which was true. And had virtually nothing to do with: ok Provigil.

Your Dr was very, very cool. Most wouldnt bother.

He had to list all those other drugs as treatment failures in order to have a hope of getting the ins co to cave on Provigil. Clearly, their concern for your health and successful treatment was insufficient to the task ....

But at least you know your Dr is totally sterling !!!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I didn't intend it to sound meanspirited- just that we all have complicated stories.

Thanks for the explanation, and no worries ....

 

[Rufous McKinney]

But at least you know your Dr is totally sterling !!!

and then he got rather mad at me because I don' t like the Provigil and his "other" patient with ME loves it.

I don't find being "more alert" to this situation, to be particularly desirable, nor the headache, nor the fact that I cleaned my whole kitchen floor- what WAS I thinking on Provigil?

I did promise to try it again. For a 1960s experimenter, I sure don't experiment well.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I did promise to try it again. For a 1960s experimenter, I sure don't experiment well.

I think its the difference between what we chose and what is chosen for us that may dampen the willingness to take that leap into The Great Unknown .... and when you're in your teens and twenties, everything's fun and consequence-less ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I did promise to try it again.

Also, remember the old injunction,

"There is nothing profitable to be learned from the second kick of a mule ...."​

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

and then he got rather mad at me because I don' t like the Provigil and his "other" patient with ME loves it.

Well, breaking it down to component parts, he did go the full nine yards, over and over, thru 6 transfers and 6 holds and 6 refusals, to try to get you the Provigil, and it could have been that the big pay-off for him wasn't just money, it was the knowledge that he'd been able to improve things for you, based on his success with his other ME patient.

And then after going thru all that, you didnt get the benefits, and he didnt get the boost in his spirits that helping you would have provided, so he just got a little humanly pettish.

If that's the case, he's still light-flucking-miles ahead of most of his colleagues. I wouldnt write him off just yet ... maybe let him know that you're aware of what a let down the failure of Provigil was for him, and that you wish it had worked, too, and gently remind him that part of the crappiness of this infinitely crappy little exploding mine shaft of an illness is that it expresses slightly differently in all of us, and responds differently to meds that were great for another patient, but did zip for us ... he may not know that yet .....

 

[Pyrrhus]

It's also a bit weird that the term 'gaslighting' has recently become so mainstream that it is beginning to be used as a synonym for "invalidating symptoms", rather than the narrower original definition of "convincing someone they are mentally ill when they are not"...

Another term that has recently entered the mainstream is "brain fog".

Unfortunately, people are starting to use it as a synonym for "simple forgetfulness", so it looks like we now have to move on to more specific terminology for ourselves such as "cognitive dysfunction".

Yes. Endogenous Depression. Not caused by an outside event ie traumatic event. Biological in origin.

That's another term that may have changed meaning once it went from clinical to mainstream.

Although the word "depression" had been used as a synonym for "sadness" for some time, the clinical sense (pre-1980) often referred to an observed lack of activity or motivation of an individual. Because it implicated mental illness, it was not talked about.

In the 1980s people started to talk openly about suffering from clinical depression, which represented a change in social attitudes that has been attributed to both the publication of the DSM-IV and the advent of Prozac, although other factors may have been involved.

Then the clinical term "depression" went mainstream and people started to confuse the clinical term with "sadness". And here we find ourselves...

EDIT: I fact-checked what I had written and I made a few corrections.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Then the term "depression" went mainstream and people started to use it as a synonym for "sadness". And here we find ourselves...

Couldn't agree more (see my post above for substantiation). And I also agree that the near-simultaneous arrival of both the DSM-IV retooled and refined definition of 'depression' and its first post-MAOI / tricyclic treatment option, Prozac, couldnt have been more devastating if the devil himself and all his little imps had written a computer program planning it.

The tsunami of money that almost literally crashed into and flooded Eli Lilly's coffers was a revelation that absolutely changed the world we live in overnight, from the way medicines were created and produced, to the way medicine itself was practiced, to the way patients were treated, both medically and as human beings and patients.

Now that you mention it, yes, 'brain fog', a term I first became familiar with during chemo, expressed in that context as 'chemo brain', has now lost all meaning, having been subsumed into pop-lingo for momentarily losing one's keys or forgetting where they put the jam jar.

And hey !!! There's lucrative prescriptions for that, too !!!

so it looks like we now have to move on to more specific terminology for ourselves such as "cognitive dysfunction".

PS .... I think anything that references 'dysfunction' comes way too close to being reassigned to the dementia bin (we've become an increasingly reductive society, dealing with life in 144 characters, if that many) and the even more lavish prescribing of the really big guns, like anti-psychotics and dementia meds ...."impairment" is a no-go, too ..... maybe 'cognitive fallibility'. No, too vague.

I give up ....

 

[Rufous McKinney]

If that's the case, he's still light-flucking-miles ahead of most of his colleagues. I wouldnt write him off just yet ... maybe let him know that you're aware of what a let down the failure of Provigil was for him,

I won't write him off, I need this one for as long as I can.....

He told me his other patient (part of me would like to meet this rumored one other person in my small town)..just loves it, is terrified she may not be able to get it (provigil) , and he told me after she takes it, she "crashes".

Thats the word he used. And as is typical, these things leak out in the rush of chaos in appointments.

CRASHING IS BAD- I did not quite get the chance to inform him of this detail he may not entirely be aware of.