starting cycloferron

gu3vara

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hi Danel(spelt right this time)

I took 250mg famvir twice a day but ordered 500mg tabs and cut in half, this was cheaper then ordering the same amount in 250mg tabs, others have used alot higher doses like 500mg 3 times a day. In australia where i am from insurance etc doesnt cover antivirals for this purpose, i ordered my famvir from online pharmacy, if u need to know where i got it from i can let u know. I payed $150 for 60x500mg tabs, so it lasts me 2 months.

cyclo i think comes in 5 ampoule packs and i used it twice a week in a mon/thurs schedule, i just use to order 5 packs of 5 ampoules, can take a month before u get your order. As for mentioning this to your doctor, thats up to you but he probably wouldnt have a clue about it, unless he is pro cfs, he probably wont be interested in it anyway. I would start with just famvir and give it a couple of months to judge how you feel and then maybe add the cyclo, this way you can tell how both are working. I felt better with cyclo but some did feel worse with their immune system being upregulated.

cheers!!!
Hi,

I was just wondering about cyclo, I started reading this thread and it caught my interest. But it's very long and I didn't read it entirely so you might have mentioned it already : why did you stop taking the cyclo? Did it stop working or you found something working better for you?

Also, I would like to know where you got your famvir please, just in case I decide to go that way. But I have to say that the rapid lifting of symptoms some described from cyclo is tempting to try first.

Btw, I'm starting the methylation protocol, do you think there any problem combining those antivirals and this protocol? I'm guessing not, I'll go very slowly on the supplements anyway.

Thx!
 

heapsreal

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Hi,

I was just wondering about cyclo, I started reading this thread and it caught my interest. But it's very long and I didn't read it entirely so you might have mentioned it already : why did you stop taking the cyclo? Did it stop working or you found something working better for you?

Also, I would like to know where you got your famvir please, just in case I decide to go that way. But I have to say that the rapid lifting of symptoms some described from cyclo is tempting to try first.

Btw, I'm starting the methylation protocol, do you think there any problem combining those antivirals and this protocol? I'm guessing not, I'll go very slowly on the supplements anyway.

Thx!
Cycloferon is an immune modulator so it can improve natural killer cell function which is a common immune abnormality in me/cfs people, as well as improve other parts of the immune system. Most immune modulators are used in an, on and off fashion as the immune system become tolerant to its effects. I noticed with cyclo that the positive effects stopped after about 8 weeks so would take maybe a month off or more before restarting. I was starting to use it if i had a 'crash' which it seemed to help or if i got another infection like a cold/flu which it seemed to help.

I found cycloferon after being involved in a cfs study which showed I/we had poor nk function. I knew a popular immune modulator like immunovir was used for this but it seemed to expensive and herbal immune stimulants didnt do alot for me, although i do sometimes use some. I found info on russian immune modulators and how they are effective at improving nk function and are safe with very few side effects. They were being used for hiv infection, cmv which i have and many other bacterial and viral infections, and they have been used in eastern block countries since the 1960s , http://www.drugspro.org/skin-problems/cycloferon.html is where i found the cheapest supplier, sometimes they would run out and had to use a more expensive supplier.

One thing i was look for in an immune modulator was something that increased interferon and these productions are called interferon inducers. Interferon inducers have direct antiviral properties as well as improveing natural killer cell function. WHat else i found interesting was that ampligen works in a similar way and is an interferon inducing drug, but possibly alot stronger.

There are tablets available and need to be taken on an empty stomache with no food for 1/2 hour after taking them and i didnt find them as effective but still helpful, injections seem to work within hours for brain fog, but i think this was through some type of anti-inflammatory effect on viruses. They can keep interferon levels higher for upto 48hours, so 2 injections a week spaced evenly apart should do the trick. but if u have problems with needles, then tabs are worth a shot.

I get my famvir from here http://www.magicpharma.com/index.php?cPath=33_188&osCsid=831767dd65733704032a601ba6f90f4b , i buy the 500mgx60 for $150, no script needed but i keep one on hand just in case.

I dont think these treatments wouldnt effect doing the methylation treatments.

happy to answer any more question if people have more.

cheers
 

gu3vara

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Thx for your answer, much appreciated!

I think I'll eventually go this way, I would prefer to run some tests for nk cell function prior to that, unfortunately there's no way I can get a doctor to help me where I am. So I'm looking at way to order a nk cell function test online, maybe an infection panel too.

If anybody can help on that, think it would be wise to do before starting treating myself with antiviral stuff. God I wish things were easier for us... we need more doctors...good ones...!
 

heapsreal

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dont know how accurate nk function test as is as test has to be performed in a certain length if time, some places may just test nk number which are usless for us.
Do a lymphocyte sub set tests as this can help clarrify active infections with viral titres. Then start smashing av's into ya and hopefully feeling better as time go's on.

cheers!!!
 

heapsreal

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Just reposting some info on cycloferon so newer people can read it and oldies can refresh their memories, this is about cycloferon in pill form but it also comes in injections which appear stronger.

PHARMACOLOGICAL PROPERTIES
Pharmacodynamics. Cycloferon is a low-molecular-weight inducer of interferon, which defines
a wide range of its biological activities (antiviral, immunomodulating, anti-inflammatory,
antiproliferative, antineoplastic etc.) The medicine induces high titers of ?- and ?-interferon in
organs and tissues, containing lymphoid elements (mucous of small intestine, spleen, liver, and
lungs), and crosses the blood-brain barrier. Cycloferon is very competent at curing diseases
caused by viruses of tick-borne encephalitis, influenza, hepatitis, herpes, cytomegalovirus,
human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), and various enteroviruses. It amplifies the antibacterial
action of antibiotics used in therapy of acute enteric infection. The medicine acts as
anticarcinogenic and anti-metastatic drug, thus preventing the formation of tumors through the
activation of immune response in organism. Immunomodulating action of Cycloferon is
manifested both as activation of phagocytosis, of cytotoxic T-cells and natural-killer-cells and as
organism immune status correction at immunodeficiency disorders of different genesis.
Pharmacokinetics. When given a maximum permissible dose, the maximum concentration in
plasma is achieved in 2-3 hours; concentration is gradually decreased in 8 hours. In 24 hours
Cycloferon is present only in trace quantity. The half-life of the medicine is 4-5 hours. Thus, the
administration of Cycloferon in recommended doses does not lead to its accumulation in
organism.
INDICATIONS
In adults Cycloferon is recommended during combined therapy of:
- herpes infections,
- acute enteric infection,
- chronic viral hepatitis B and C,
- influenza and acute respiratory infections,
- neural infections (aseptic (serous) meningitis, Lyme disease),
- HIV infection (stages 2A-3B),
- secondary immunodeficiency, associated with chronic bacterial and fungal
infections.
In children over 4 years old Cycloferon is recommended during combined therapy of:
- acute and chronic hepatitis B and C,
- herpes infections,
- preventive treatment and therapy of influenza and acute viral respiratory
infections,
- acute enteric infections,
- combined therapy of HIV infection (stages 2-3B)

CONTRAINDICATIONS
The medicine is not recommended during periods of pregnancy and lactation. The medicine is
not recommended to persons with uncompensated hepatic cirrhosis.
SPECIAL DESIGNATIONS
In inflammation of the thyroid gland the administration of Cycloferon should be conducted under
endocrinologist supervision.
DRUG INTERACTIONS
Cycloferon is compatible with all the medicines traditionally used in therapy of the above
mentioned diseases (interferons, chemotherapeutic agents etc.).

cheers!!!
 
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thank you so much for the information,

just to clear..

if you did an injection 2x a week how long would a vile last you? how much did you inject per dose, how much in syringe per ml?
what size needle, and where does on get needles, i am guessing the dr? i just want to start low to see if it works so want to buy enough for a month. how long before you know it is having a good effect?

when you say upregulated, what does that mean? i have been diagnosed with graves, hashimoto, and sjgens, so my immune is over stimulated now, i was looking for support, to build without, making it more active. would this still work for me. i just did the blood test for many viruses. i believe he will prescribe famvir if needed and i would just do the cycloferon on my own.

i lived in a moldy house for two years, very sick, immune, very low adrenals, extreme fatigue, no help from any doctor. after two years moved, felt a tiny bit better, never knew it was mold.
then went to a dentist for cleaning, he removed a amalgam filling improper and cracked the top of the filling. within days started weird, severe sx, like walking to the left, horrid vertigo, fragmented vision, messed up my thyroid, and didn't think the fatigue could get any worse, but man did it. lots of mercury problems, having a hard time chelating due to methyl issues.

i need to support, build immune to start to help fatigue and to clear some of these toxins. do you think this could help me with immune?
did you also do the methylation supplements to help with detox.
thanks for you help, so much
denise




hi Danel(spelt right this time)

I took 250mg famvir twice a day but ordered 500mg tabs and cut in half, this was cheaper then ordering the same amount in 250mg tabs, others have used alot higher doses like 500mg 3 times a day. In australia where i am from insurance etc doesnt cover antivirals for this purpose, i ordered my famvir from online pharmacy, if u need to know where i got it from i can let u know. I payed $150 for 60x500mg tabs, so it lasts me 2 months.

cyclo i think comes in 5 ampoule packs and i used it twice a week in a mon/thurs schedule, i just use to order 5 packs of 5 ampoules, can take a month before u get your order. As for mentioning this to your doctor, thats up to you but he probably wouldnt have a clue about it, unless he is pro cfs, he probably wont be interested in it anyway. I would start with just famvir and give it a couple of months to judge how you feel and then maybe add the cyclo, this way you can tell how both are working. I felt better with cyclo but some did feel worse with their immune system being upregulated.

cheers!!!
 

heapsreal

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thank you so much for the information,

just to clear..

if you did an injection 2x a week how long would a vile last you? how much did you inject per dose, how much in syringe per ml?
what size needle, and where does on get needles, i am guessing the dr? i just want to start low to see if it works so want to buy enough for a month. how long before you know it is having a good effect?

when you say upregulated, what does that mean? i have been diagnosed with graves, hashimoto, and sjgens, so my immune is over stimulated now, i was looking for support, to build without, making it more active. would this still work for me. i just did the blood test for many viruses. i believe he will prescribe famvir if needed and i would just do the cycloferon on my own.

i lived in a moldy house for two years, very sick, immune, very low adrenals, extreme fatigue, no help from any doctor. after two years moved, felt a tiny bit better, never knew it was mold.
then went to a dentist for cleaning, he removed a amalgam filling improper and cracked the top of the filling. within days started weird, severe sx, like walking to the left, horrid vertigo, fragmented vision, messed up my thyroid, and didn't think the fatigue could get any worse, but man did it. lots of mercury problems, having a hard time chelating due to methyl issues.

i need to support, build immune to start to help fatigue and to clear some of these toxins. do you think this could help me with immune?
did you also do the methylation supplements to help with detox.
thanks for you help, so much
denise
Doesnt come in a vial but a 2ml ampoule, it comes in a small box of 5 ampoules, each ampoule contains 2 mls of cycloferon, so u need a 3 ml syringe and a 23 guage needle to inject intramuscular into outside of thigh is the easiest. You will probably find needles and syringes at the site you buy cyclo from otherwise a quick google and im sure you will find somewhere to buy them from, its not illegal to purchase syringes etc. If u have never done injections before i would maybe try and find a nurse that is helpful. breaking open the ampoule and drawing out the contents can be hard if u havent done this before as well as the injection itself, there are plenty of info sites on injection techniques. Maybe your dr is open to giving u the injections. Injections and putting in drips is something i do for work and have done for along time, if not comfortable with this maybe try cyclo pills first. Pills i used 2 pills every second day and took them on an empty stomache every morning.

Upregulated i mean by turning on your immune system, so it starts working again and can start attack bugs/infections that have had time to build up from your weakened immune system. The rapid killing off of infections can cause a die off reaction and initially make u feel unwell. This has happened to some who have used it but not me as i think i had my viral load down enough from antivirals not to cause me too many problems. Im thinking that the initial rapid response i got from cyclo injections maybe from an anti-inflammatory effect of cyclo as alot of brain fog and neuro symp;toms are caused by inflammation/cytokines etc from infections. The tablets werent as strong as injection and took a few days before i felt an effect from them.

As for methylation and detoxifying, it could help but its about helping your system to makes its own glutathione which your liver uses to detoxify poisons, meds etc etc. Some have found b12/folic acid methylation cycle helpful, i have only had minimal effects from it but use NAC and lipoic acid for the same reasons which has kept my liver healthy while using antivirals. NAC is controversial among methylation crowd, but there are some of us that have found it helpful in keeping us healthy.

Its tough going trying to navigate through all this info on treating cfs, everyone seems to react so differently to many of these treatments, all u can do is try them. Most natural treatments i feel dont actually overcome cfs but help us to maintain our general health as best we can. Need to work on your immune system, test for different infections and go after them, treat symptoms like sleep and pain as these can wear your energy down and take supplements for general health. I hope this helps and happy to try and answer any other questions.

cheers!!!
 
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thank you for all your information you have shared with me.
i have some blood test and was hoping you could help me with the results.
i am here in the US and lab corp did the test, which i can't say i think very much of them, but here goes...

NK active T cells

ab nk 58 24-406

%nk 2.0 1.4-19.4

absolute cd3 2320 622-2402

%cd3 lymp 80 57.5-86.2

ab cd3+cd25+lymp 609 H 79-535

cd3+cd25+lymp 21.0 49-25.9


EBV

ebv ab vca IgG >8.0 H

ebv nuclear antigen ab, IgG > 8.0 H 0.0-0.8

ebv ab vca IgM 0.2 0.0-0.8

ebv early antigen ab, IgG 0.8 0.0-0.8

CMV

cmv ab, IgG cytomegalovirus 25.9 H 0.0-0.8

cmv ag IgM <0.9 0.0-0.8
positive >1.0

HHV6 IgG antibodies 5.10 H pos >0.99


my doctor said these are not a problem, because, i HAD the virus, don't have it any more, that the numbers are high b/c my immune has a memory of these viruses, but there is nothing to do for them. i think this is a crazy response and would like to know what you think. with my limited education, it would seem that my immune is treating these "inactive" viruses as they are "active". it seems my immune is still trying to fight these off, but unsuccessful due to heavy load. is this right? or something like it?

i am going to e email him after i know more for here and still ask for the famvir (he seems to do what ever test i want and does prescribe meds that i want, although he seem a bit out of the loop with cfs),
and after i start for one month add cycloferrin. if he doesn't give me the famvir i will order online.

can you help me with this?

thanks again for your help

denise
 

heapsreal

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with high IgG antibodies to ebv, cmv and hhv6 its a good possibility that they are reactivating and causing you problems. If u can get other lymphocyte sub set test would be interesting cd8 is commonly high in these viruses. your cd3 lymphocytes are high, my cd3 were regularly high with cd8 lymphocytes. I think you could be a good candidate for famvir or maybe valcyte.

good luck,
cheers!!!!
 
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so cd3 and cd8 would tell me if these "inactive viruses" are now "active" or "reactive"?

you said you didn't do that well with herb supplements for the viruses. i have high mercury and heavy metals which have really screwed with my minerals, methylation, sulfuration pathways, enzymes causing problems with sulfur, salicylate, etc so herbs are problematic for me. i am also dealing with having lived in a moldy house.

i have been told if i can rid the metals, i stand a chance to help methylation, although i am still supplementing to correct it, trying to slow down the fast phase 1 liver for the toxins and MCS, chelate the mercury, anti fungus, etc for the mold, etc, etc. i am very sick in bed and have been for a few years so i am trying to put all together. it seems all intertwined, these toxins and viruses, bacteria, metals, etc

thank you so much for your help
denise




with high IgG antibodies to ebv, cmv and hhv6 its a good possibility that they are reactivating and causing you problems. If u can get other lymphocyte sub set test would be interesting cd8 is commonly high in these viruses. your cd3 lymphocytes are high, my cd3 were regularly high with cd8 lymphocytes. I think you could be a good candidate for famvir or maybe valcyte.

good luck,
cheers!!!!
 
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Tell your doctor that those might very well be reactivating infections, those values are high. You might likely improve on AVs and immune modulators.
thank you i will. i just couldn't understand how he could say, they WERE ACTIVE BUT NOT NOW, MY IMMUNE REMEMBERS THEM BUT SHOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM AND THERE IS NOTHING HE COULD DO. the strange thing is he is listed as a CFS doctor, kinda scary,
thank you

did you experience some of these high numbers on test? have you taken and gotten better on AV yourself?

denise
 
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It's hard to compare but if your lab used the same scale then my numbers where not that high, but I had 2.6 times higher than normal EBV and 3-4 times higher than normal CPN, and only slightly elevated HHV6. I am only taking antiviral supplements and immune-modulating drugs (LDN)/supplements and therapies (CVAC). You can check this thread for reference:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showthread.php?13545-Treatments-overview
 
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Tell your doctor that those might very well be reactivating infections, those values are high. You might likely improve on AVs and immune modulators.
wanted to add what immune modulators? like cycloferron?

i have a question.. if my immune is up regulated and i have positive antibodies, for sojournes and hashimoto. my ANA tested positive, abnormal .

so if one has over active immune will the immune mods, cause that to get worse?

denise
 

heapsreal

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Just start with antivirals and think about immune modulators later, you may find autoimmune stuff could also sort itself out once viral load is down. Although in the info on cycloferon it does get used for auto immune stuff, but i would go the antiviral route first and see what happens as it might be all you need.

cheers!!!
 
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Yes, like cycloferon or LDN (low dose naltrexone, I'd start with that as it is usually easiest to obtain and affrodable) or immunovir (inosine). There are also a lot of herbal supplements that are potent immune modulators such as andrographis or graviola. I cannot answer the question about immune up regulation, that is really something a competent doc should advise you on - however new research uncovers more and more that illnesses previously thought to be auto-immune due to upregulation are not due to upregulation and more likely due to immune dysfunction or imbalance/shift. Immune-modulators can help to restore the balance by helping out with the weaknesses. But I think you might benefit from more thorough immune function testing to circle in on up-regulations and/or deficiencies. cheers
 
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thanks and so sorry but what are the immune function test.

you are right i should talk to a competent dr but this guy is now # 5 and at least he is willing, but not competent and i have to stick with someone for now that will at least do test and meds, and leave the leading and opinions to a place like this. i am too sick to start over again with a new dr with this long, complex case,

thanks denise





Yes, like cycloferon or LDN (low dose naltrexone, I'd start with that as it is usually easiest to obtain and affrodable) or immunovir (inosine). There are also a lot of herbal supplements that are potent immune modulators such as andrographis or graviola. I cannot answer the question about immune up regulation, that is really something a competent doc should advise you on - however new research uncovers more and more that illnesses previously thought to be auto-immune due to upregulation are not due to upregulation and more likely due to immune dysfunction or imbalance/shift. Immune-modulators can help to restore the balance by helping out with the weaknesses. But I think you might benefit from more thorough immune function testing to circle in on up-regulations and/or deficiencies. cheers
 
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Thank you to Heapsreal

I started cycloferon 10 days ago. I had been sleeping better since starting LDN on August 1. I am taking the cycloferon on the alternating schedule which Heapsreal has described. I cannot say yet what the effects of the cycloferon will be, but I am convinced it is doing something because on the days when I take it I have increased swelling and pain in my lymph nodes. I think it is doing something. I am planning to start Famvir in another week or two.

I just want to thank Heapsreal for his patience and his kindness in describing to me how he used the cycloferon and Famvir. I would not have known about either drug without reading what he has written, and I certainly would not have had the courage to explore them on my own without the benefit of his experiences.

Thank you, Heapsreal.
 
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Magnolia, I had those effects temporarily on LDN as well and I felt pretty good despite the tenderness and swelling which eventually subsided - I agree that I think it is likely the immune system reactivating and doing some cleanup. Denise, sorry I cannot name the specific tests as I did not have tests that go into the very detail but some patients here on this forum have had the leading, extensive immune function tests as part of their treatment - if you search on this forum a bit you might find some pointers about which labs have the thorough immune tests and even some sample results.
 

heapsreal

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if cycloferon is doing its job and increasing interferon, you should get viral type symptoms. Alot of the ill feelings alot of people get from viruses/colds etc are actually from the immune system kicking it up a notch eg, increasing temp, increasing white blood cells and lymphoctes etc When i was using cycloferon tablets i definately felt better on the days i was taking them versus when i wasnt, which might sound like a contradiction to what i have just written but cycloferon also has some anti-inflammatroy properties which can help with viral symptoms. It seems peope either go one way or the other ie they get the anti-inflammatroy effects of it or they feel the immune system upregulating, i suppose at the end of it all that your feeling better. I think you will start to feel alot better when u have added the antiviral and been on it for awhile. I have never tried LDN but seems to help alot of people. Eventually we end up with a big list of things that help us and we add them in here and there and try differnt combo's. I think most long time cfsers have a list of things that are helpful, its all self navigation and trial and error. What did people do before internet with cfs????

cheers!!!