Spain trying to execute pet dog of Nurse with ebola

[Sean]

My dog is like my child and I would never stand for this. Please know, I am not criticizing anyone for writing this, just the idea horrifies me!

As much as your human child dying from Ebola?

I have lost a much loved family dog to a preventative kill of all pets after a major natural disaster, so I have some experience of this situation. It is very sad, but also necessary, at least in some circumstances, and preventing the spread of Ebola is a damn good reason for massively erring on the side of caution.

 

[Gingergrrl]

I read the article on CNN and it said they didn't even know if Ebola could be spread from a human to a dog. To me they killed a sick woman's dog in the absence of any evidence that the dog was sick. It is not logical to me and animals cannot defend themselves and totally helpless. I am going to bed now ( almost 1 am here) so if I can't respond further until tomorrow that is why.

 

[golden]

Ebola poses a serious risk to humanity.

Dogs exchange saliva wherever they go. You can't tell a dog to stop sharing saliva wherever he goes. Moreover, it is much harder to quarantine a dog due to the management of urine and feces, you are then putting more caregivers at risk of contracting Ebola.

The nurse has Ebola, contracted it from caring for a patient that died.

The authorities decided it was best to sacrifice the dog, as a public health measure to prevent further spreading of Ebola. This decision has not been taken lightly, i am sure.

When there is a public health concern, the health of humans presides over the
welfare of animals.

More people will die this year of adverse reactions to pharmaceuticals than ebola.

 

[RustyJ]

This is what they are not telling you - this is from the CDC's own studies:

Although dogs can be asymptomatically infected, they may excrete infectious viral particles in urine, feces, and saliva for a short period before virus clearance, as observed experi-mentally in other animals. Given the frequency of contact between humans and domestic dogs, canine Ebola infec-tion must be considered as a potential risk factor for human infection and virus spread. Human infection could occur through licking, biting, or grooming.

Asymptomatically infected dogs could be a potential source of human Ebola outbreaks and of virus spread during human outbreaks, which could explain some epidemiologically unrelated human cases.

Dogs might also be a source of human Ebola outbreaks, such as the 1976 Yambuku outbreaks in Democratic Republic of Congo (19), the 1995 Kikwit out-break, some outbreaks that occurred in 1996 and 2004 in Gabon and Republic of Congo (5), and the 1976 (6), 1979(20), and 2004 (21) outbreaks in Sudan, the sources of which are still unknown.

Together, these findings strongly suggest that dogs should be taken into consideration during the management of human Ebola outbreaks.

 

[RustyJ]

In fact they seem to say that the infection may go thru a dog population in an area faster or more effectively than a human population. There is the suggestion that monitoring the viral activity in dogs may indicate prevalence in an area.

I really can't believe they kept this quiet.

 

[Kati]

More people will die this year of adverse reactions to pharmaceuticals than ebola.

The topic is Ebola, and at least 7000 have been infected in Africa, 50% have died. Since West Africa is just a plane away from another continent, it is fair to say that Ebola is a public health threat to other continents, including Spain where 2 have been infected, 1 died.

1 died in Texas, and a few dozens are quarantined or being watched.

Infectious diseases can be prevented. Governments and medical authorities have a duty to protect its population.

 

[Ren]

Papers have quoted scientists who view the Spanish state's action negatively because they believe this was an opportunity for study.

If they put down dogs and/or domestic animals in Europe, are they going to begin putting down dogs and/or other domestic animals in Africa? Do dogs and/or domestic animals in the affected African countries need to be put down? If domestic animals need to be put down, do mice (or other such wild creatures that commonly live among humans) and things that eat mice need to be put down? If mice can be infected, and birds eat such mice, how does this affect birds, and can they carry and transmit the pathogen over further distances? Can insects harbor and transmit ebola?

Is there any difference in the virus in dogs if it's obtained from other dogs or from humans? If resources for humans are scarce, how will communities safely put down domestic (or affected wild) animals? What is the psychological toll of unnecessarily killing pets, livestock, and other animals, especially during times of great unrest? Additionally, there have been recent news stories on illegal trafficking of dogs in several Asian countries, where humans consume something like at least five million dogs each year (if I remember correctly). What risk does this pose for millions of humans in these regions?

If pets are put down, will working dogs be put down as well? Rescue dogs? Bomb dogs? Service dogs? Military dogs? Police dogs? Therapy dogs? (Dogs who (with or without help from humans) overcome illness or impairments - a lost limb or paralyzed limbs, for example, are used in healthcare settings to comfort and inspire people.etc.)

Is it more/less/equally complex/costly to create a vaccine for dogs? Will working toward this be useful in creating a vaccine for humans? And what about horses? Do those need to be put down? Humans consume those as well.

The Spanish state action seems heavy handed and stupid. Even if they euthanized Excalibur, why would they immediately turn him to ash and not study his body? And for all we know, the authorities are lying (wouldn't be the first time governments lie), and Excalibur is being monitored somewhere.

Governments perpetrate all manner of cruelty to "protect" their citizens. It's not unreasonable to ask for evidence and to work to create a greater knowledge base. If dogs are legally considered property, then this is also about government seizure of property.

 

[RustyJ]

According to a report on BBC within five weeks cases will be ten times greater per week.

The stories of healthcare workers being stretched beyond breaking point are countless.

A lack of basic protective gear such as gloves has been widely reported.

The charity Medecins Sans Frontieres has an isolation facility with 160 beds in Monrovia. But it says the queues are growing and they need another 800 beds to deal with the number of people who are already sick.

This is not a scenario for containing an epidemic, but fuelling one.

Dr Dye's tentative forecasts are grim: "At the moment we're seeing about 500 new cases each week. Those numbers appear to be increasing.

"I've just projected about five weeks into the future and if current trends persist we would be seeing not hundreds of cases per week, but thousands of cases per week and that is terribly disturbing.

"The situation is bad and we have to prepare for it getting worse."

The World Health Organization is using an educated guess of 20,000 cases before the end, in order to plan the scale of the response.

But the true potential of the outbreak is unknown and the WHO figure has been described to me as optimistic by some scientists.

 

[Tito]

Thousands of people are dying of this disease (Ebola) and many thousands more will die, yet people are accepting of this. Have people rushed to sign a petition about helping out those countries affected?

It is exactly what I thought.

Among the 300,000 who set up and supported the petition to save that dog, how many set up a petition to provide help to the African victims of that disease? How many of them fought in the streets against the police, like they did for the dog?

None. It speaks volume about how some people perceive the value of human life...

 

[Gingergrrl]

I am still awake (not b/c of this thread) but b/c I got some scary news from one of my doctors today and still trying to process it and cannot sleep.

I read the follow up posts and some seem to imply that if we love and advocate for animals that we somehow do not do this for humans and in my own case, nothing could be farther from the truth. I did not sign this petition b/c I did not know about it but I sign all kinds of petitions all the time and the vast majority of them are for human rights issues.

I donate every month whether I have the money or not to Heifer International which helps families in Africa and around the world. Before I was ill, I worked for 16 years as a social worker often in the trenches with people who had been abandoned by society.

So I think some assumptions are being made that if we love animals and fight for animal rights that we don't also fight for human rights and this is untrue at least in my own case. The two are not mutually exclusive!

 

[Ren]

How many people posted on internet forums instead of setting up a petition? How many watched television? How many went shopping? How many played with their cat? (This is not a jab at cats.) How many went dancing? How many read a frivolous book? How many had a little or too much wine? How many wrote Star Trek fan fiction? (This is not a jab at Star Trek.) How many newscasters styled their hair? How many people did whatever else?

Everyone who signed that petition will get further emails from change.org notifying them of other petitions. A lot of people "know" dogs. (My avatar is a WWI hero with a ridiculous name "Sergeant Stubby". For me, he's a little icon of strength.) People have loved the riot dogs in Greece. Dogs often exhibit positive qualities that humans struggle with or lack. I imagine that these iconic qualities (coupled with vulnerability) are, in part, what spurs people to action.

This was also a story about an individual dog. As mentioned earlier, millions of dogs are treated poorly and eaten in some Asian countries, and there's not this kind of outcry. Hundreds of thousands of dogs in the US are euthanized each year. I suspect that the presentation of "individual" vs "group", for whatever reason, causes people to react differently. The death of Thomas Duncan (in Texas) and the stories of his family may cause people to feel or understand differently than they have thus far.

Why not use this Excalibur media and inertia to propel people to further positive action? I love that people protested in person. I think it would be healthy to see more compassion in society - in person and in the media. I think it should be embraced and encouraged to grow.

I signed the petition, and I don't appreciate being told that I don't value human life because I did so. I think this is cruel and mean spirited.

Change.org petitions involving ebola: http://www.change.org/search?utf8=✓&q=ebola
There are also petitions for malaria, tuberculosis, cholera, borrelia (Lyme), and ME/CFS.

 

[maryb]

I'm not well enough to write more, I agree totally with #30, of course we care very much about what's going on in Africa as well as caring for an innocent animal.
I read today that an American scientist said the Spanish authorities over reacted, they should have studied the dog, it may have led to more understanding of the disease. Too late now for poor Excalibur. They'd have had to kill me first to get my dog!!!

 

[Ren]

Rash measures also erode public trust in government. In order to guard against what they perceive as Frankenstein mobs of villagers, people might hide their pets or move them somewhere safer, etc. which could have unforeseen consequences.

 

[golden]

I am still awake (not b/c of this thread) but b/c I got some scary news from one of my doctors today and still trying to process it and cannot sleep.

I read the follow up posts and some seem to imply that if we love and advocate for animals that we somehow do not do this for humans and in my own case, nothing could be farther from the truth. I did not sign this petition b/c I did not know about it but I sign all kinds of petitions all the time and the vast majority of them are for human rights issues.

I donate every month whether I have the money or not to Heifer International which helps families in Africa and around the world. Before I was ill, I worked for 16 years as a social worker often in the trenches with people who had been abandoned by society.

So I think some assumptions are being made that if we love animals and fight for animal rights that we don't also fight for human rights and this is untrue at leas in my own case. The two are not mutually exclusive!

Sorry to hear of your scary news. Hope you get a good nights sleep.



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It is lack of compassion and respect for animals and the Earth which is creating these issues.

It is money which has the top of this male hierarchial structure which is chanted and perpetuated and fed.

This is preventing border controls. Money comes ahead of human lives.

Currently we are allowing people in from all the hot spots.


If people want to train and have special, luxury quarantine measures, dog hospitals, if it should they be necessary, then these should be provided for our non-human companions and family members. But preferably quarantine would be at home.

If it can be done for humans it can be done for animals.
It is an antequated, outdated idea to just kill everything in sight.

I think animals teach humans to have more compassion for each other.

Scientific studies have proven it is those who are abusive to animals are more likely to be abusive towards humans.

 

[Ren]

Another note: I don't know Spanish, so I can't confirm what's in the Spanish media, but one commenter said that people in Spain were angry about how the Spanish government had handled the situation with the nurse herself even - and that issues like this weren't showing up so much or at all in the English-language media.

I believe Spanish unemployment has been high a long time. Someone else said that people in Spain had been working hard to combat animal cruelty in Spain, so it's seems likely that what's happened surrounding Excalibur could be seen as a long build up.

I recall an article that said some people had been reduced to taking food from trash bins, and there was a photo of a woman holding up her hand begging, and the Spanish prince (or someone like this - I don't follow royalty) smiling and waving or reaching to shake her hand. So, my impression is that people feel like those in power (or in powerful circles) are out of touch.

Media chiding protesters could be seen as a move by those in power to distract from the consequences of their (people in power's) failures.

Golden mentioned the issue of money, and I thought as well - Don't a lot of Europeans vacation in Spain? Maybe the government wants to dispose of any doubts before the winter (?) travel season and the potential loss of that income.

And would the state have moved so quickly if the formerly-stray mutt Excalibur had instead been a $10, 000 - $100, 000 insured prize bull or horse? How many of those would insurers allow to get knocked off without testing? How many of those would the government reimburse people for? (Seizure and destruction of property.)

It's understandable to be frustrated and angry though that humans seem desensitized to the suffering and plight of other humans.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@maryb

I'm not well enough to write more, I agree totally with #30, of course we care very much about what's going on in Africa as well as caring for an innocent animal.

Mary, thank you and I think I was post #30. I'm glad you understood what I was trying to express which is that I care both about what is going on in Africa and I care about innocent animals and the two are not exclusive. It is like if I donate to an ME/CFS charity, someone could say that I therefore do not care about cancer or HIV when in fact, I care about all people with all diseases.

I read today that an American scientist said the Spanish authorities over reacted, they should have studied the dog, it may have led to more understanding of the disease. Too late now for poor Excalibur.

I totally agree with this point. They had a nurse with Ebola with a dog and they could have quarantined and studied her dog to learn if and how the disease could get spread between a human and dog and they royally missed this opportunity. I've read a lot since last night and everything said that Ebola in Africa is spread by chimpanzees and many other animals including bats but the data is inconclusive on dogs and no known cases of a dog spreading Ebola to a human.

They'd have had to kill me first to get my dog!!!

I agree. My dog is my family member and I have had her since she was seven weeks old. There were times that the only reason I continued living was because of my dog. They would literally have to take her over my dead body.

 

[Sean]

More people will die this year of adverse reactions to pharmaceuticals than ebola.

Adverse pharmaceutical reactions is a serious problem. But it is a relatively stable known risk that is not likely to exponentially explode across our society over just a few weeks or months, with no real means to stop it.

Ebola just might do that, if we are not careful.

 

[Gingergrrl]

The nurses in that hospital in Spain said they were not trained properly with all the protective gear and did not even have enough gloves.

The Ebola patient who died in the US was initially sent home b/c of a computer glitch where staff couldn't access the info that he had just travelled from West Africa.

I think there are much bigger issues for the governments to focus on in preventing Ebola than impulsively deciding to murder this woman's dog. Just the screening process at airports alone is one major issue.

 

[alex3619]

While I understand the imperative to save human lives and euthanase this dog, this also has big risks. Its probably a bad idea. If this happens routinely, rather than other more conservative measures, then in a bigger outbreak people will hide their pets. If its done to livestock, then very poor farmers who are close to starvation will hide their animals, or not report problems. This might allow an epidemic to gain a foothold.

While it might be important to put down animals in a wide area during a full scale epidemic or pandemic, its another to do so for an isolated case. In modern societies there are other options. The situation might be different if the dog were shown to be infected. Which raises a question. Is this revealing that authorities do not have the capacity to test dogs? If a pandemic occurred, does this mean they could not even test people in a timely fashion?

I agreed with post #30, but I do not take it how some have. I know some people who sign such petitions also sign human welfare petitions. The issue is not so much about the motives of who signed it, but the scope of the response, including media, compared to the scope of the response to Africa. There is a mismatch.

I also know many of us with ME get involved less than most. So we do what we can, when we can. I get a dozen petition requests a day, from various organizations I am signed up to. I only occasionally sign. My energy has to be focused, even triaged. If I were more well, I would probably sign half the petition requests I see, rather than one here or there.

I feel for the dog, and its owners. I feel even more for the sick in Africa, and the health care workers putting their lives on the line to try to make a difference.

If Ebola spreads to several continents, it could have massive ramifications beyond even the impact of the virus itself. In modernized societies we have some capacity to deal with an outbreak, though perhaps only up to a certain scale, but society itself is not ready.

 

[alex3619]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...-millions-infected-quarantine-africa-epidemic''

This is a projection for next year, and might be very wrong, but its based upon a doubling period of about 20 days.