Slow Transit Constipation...... no pain just no movement

[charlie1]

I don't have gastroparesis that is a stomsch issue.

I tried alpha gpc and huperzine didn't work.

I do coffee enemas 2x a day. Seems to have a parasympathetic effect through an un-discovered mechanism

How long did you use the GPC before deciding it wasn't helpful...and at what dose? Was it a GPC-huperzine combo?
I ask because I have 300 mg capsules of Alpha GPC that I'm waiting to trial.
thx!

 

[WoolPippi]

gut motility in the colon is governed by serotonine (move!) and dopamine (don't move!)
this study shows someone with too much movement being healed by getting precursors to dopamine: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3108661/

@douglasmich
I have slow transit constipation. No pain. And I have a natural high in dopamine (MAO A and B are homozygous)
I've been taking 5-HTP, the precursor to serotonine. And 1500 mg vit C. And a fibreRESTRICTED diet. And it works wonders. Regular stools now.

 

[SwanRonson]

@douglasmichI've been taking 5-HTP, the precursor to serotonine. And 1500 mg vit C. And a fibreRESTRICTED diet. And it works wonders. Regular stools now.

How much 5-htp?

Also, what form of vitamin C?

I've had success with vitamin C before but only with the powder and ended up gettting gastritis.

 

[charlie1]

@SwanRonson - . Recently, the local health store suggested I used Natural Factors powdered 'Calcium Ascorbate" (vit c -1000mg) mixed in water and I have had success with that (but I also use Mirulax daily). Thing is for a few years now I've had significant issues with GERD (reflux) so I was concerned about the acidity of using Vit C but was told it likely wouldn't cause additional problems such as gastritis because this is a buffered form of Vit C.
Because I experience significant GERD issues (for years....possibly a hernia is the cause), it's difficult to say if the VIT C drink is making it worse. What negative symptoms did you have that relate to the Vit C use and what form did you use?

And I have a natural high in dopamine (MAO A and B are homozygous)
I've been taking 5-HTP, the precursor to serotonine.

How does one know (tests?) that they have a high level of dopamine? Will 23andMe show that?
RE: 5-HTP...I have same question as SwanRonson...how much is suggested?

Thanks, Charlie

 

[Dechi]

I wouldn't do the enemas on a regular basis, or your intestine might get lazy and you'll be stuck with doing them in order to have a bm...

I had slow transit as well for a good part of my life. 2-3 times a week was my average, sometimes not going for 7 days if my routine changed. I don't know why, but somehow it changed many years ago. Maybe because I started drinking coffee. Coffee is very good for that purpose. But not for ME, so I only drink decaffeinated coffe (which still contains about 25% the amount of caffeine of a regular coffee, but it's a good compromise). It works just as well.

 

[WoolPippi]

How much 5-htp?

That depends. The case study looks at blood levels and to balance of serotonine-dopamine.
I take 100 or 200 mg per day.
It's expensive.
My intestines are doing fine atm (thanks to fibre-restricted diet and non-gaseous foods). If they weren't I would do a lower dosage.

Also, what form of vitamin C?

I take a citrate because I can stand it and my stomach is not much acid of itself. If I take 2000 mg I get diarrea. If I take 1000 mg nothing happens.

I've had success with vitamin C before but only with the powder and ended up gettting gastritis.

Ouch. I hope you got better from that.

edit: The study also mentioned Selenium is important to take. They monitored all the minerals, as do I.

 

[WoolPippi]

How does one know (tests?) that they have a high level of dopamine? Will 23andMe show that?

yes. I am homozygous for MAO A and MAO B, the two enzymes that break down dopamine and other excitatory neurotransmitters.

I'm also "quick silvery" of character, meaning highly excitable, quick to understand things, quick to react, quick to assume leadership and be dominant and asserting truths. Volatile too. I'm also happy at the core and very good at concentrating.
These are all traits of high dopamine (and serotonine) caused by faulty MAO A. It's the opposite of AD(H)D, whose MAO A is often over-active.
A very high dopamine cliché would be the French gendarmes played by actor Louis de Funès: smart, aggressive, visionary, no patience with other people.
(I'm painting broad strokes here, pairing neurotransmitters to characteristics. There's a psychology test by Braverman on which this is based. I'm uncertain of his scientific bases though.)

RE: 5-HTP...I have same question as SwanRonson...how much is suggested?
Thanks, Charlie

More than I'm willing to pay for. I take 100 or 200 mg per day. They also mentioned Selenium is important to take. They monitored all the minerals, as do I.
Serotonine is most produced in the gut. Only a small part is used in the brain. Still, taking 5-HTP will have effect in the brain (mood). It does so in me and it does so in the study I mentioned.

But remember... I often assert things with a certainty that doesn't charm other people. It's not me, it's my brain!

 

[charlie1]

yes. I am homozygous for MAO A and MAO B, the two enzymes that break down dopamine and other excitatory neurotransmitters.

Hello @WoolPippi , are you saying 'yes' to my question re: can this be found out on 23andMe? Or are you saying there is other testing for this?
If yes to 23andMe, where exactly would I look for the MAO A /B results cuz I'm wondering if I'm low in seratonin (constipation)?...I don't fit the high dopamine profile. thx!

 

[WoolPippi]

Hello @WoolPippi , are you saying 'yes' to my question re: can this be found out on 23andMe? Or are you saying there is other testing for this?
If yes to 23andMe, where exactly would I look for the MAO A /B results cuz I'm wondering if I'm low in seratonin (constipation)?...I don't fit the high dopamine profile. thx!

You said "Will 23andMe show that?"
yes, 23andme.com tests for the MAO genes. But 23andme will not give an interpretation of your results. Results are found in the right upper corner, click on your profile picture then "Browse raw data". In "gene" you can type MAOA or MAOB. Then you'll have to look at the various snp's. One of them is rs6323

You will have to compare your results to that of the general population yourself. This can be done by putting your all raw data into something like GeneticGenie.org. They will give you an interpretation of your results.

or you can compare your individual snp results on snpdia.com. Here's the page for rs6323, GG means overactive enzyme, TT means downregulated

You'd also need to read which enzymes break down which neurotransmitter, for this I read wikipedia and I focused on dopamine.
Other markers I find with quick googling on "mao a b polymorphisms" are rs909525, rs2064047 and MAOB rs1799836. They still do not know how everything works.

 

[charlie1]

Oh boy. Thanks so much @WoolPippi for all the information but honestly, this is over my head!

This thread was mentioning 5HTP and I thought maybe that could help if I was indeed low on serotonin. But I do see that rs6323 is TT for me which you say means I'm downregulated. So, I need serotonin or no?

I don't know the significance of most of the results of my 23andMe testing other than the obvious Risks that were outlined on the Health Risks page. I've never really got into searching individual synapses in the Raw Data area as it was just too complicated back when I was bed bound and cognitively disabled with the POTS and dysautonomia.
But I did put the results into Genetic Genie a few years ago thinking I had methylation issues but surprisingly I don't.

Now, I'm a bit nervous to get back into researching after having such success with laying off the computer research. It allowed my mind and body to de-stress. But there are times such as now that I can see that if I delved more into understanding my 23andme results, I might have found answers to my ongoing issues. Too bad there isn't a business out there that works with us re: our 23andME results! Oh well, the dysautonomia is SOO SOO much better now so for that I'm thankful!

Basically I'm just trying to find answers regarding my 2 biggest problems right now...constipation and GERD. Both have seen some hellp with the commonly prescribed medical and natural treatments / lifestyle changes but I still have terrible episodes. As for my hypermobility problems (likely Ehlers Danlos), I'm accepting the dislocations and pain while I await a cure for that!

Thanks for your help.

 

[WoolPippi]

Oh boy. Thanks so much @WoolPippi for all the information but honestly, this is over my head!

This thread was mentioning 5HTP and I thought maybe that could help if I was indeed low on serotonin. But I do see that rs6323 is TT for me which you say means I'm downregulated. So, I need serotonin or no?

Tricky question as in theory your faulty MAOA fails to break down both dopamine and serotonin. You could have plenty of both.

Colonic motility is governed by the balance between the two though. So I would say: yes, try 5-htp for a bit. See how you feel and decide based on results.

However, my colonic transit and my stomach emptying is more helped by a fibre-restricted diet, by non-gassy foods and by taking horizontal rests starting one hour after a meal. Not stressing the system in any way works really well for me.

Don't delve back into computer research, your energy is better enjoyed elsewhere. There's not enough result to be gotten at the moment researching beyond Genetic Genie.

With your TT for MAO A you are homozygous. Whenever dopamine is triggered in you it takes a longer time to wind down. When you get stressed your body is longer activated than most people. Don't get stressed?
Aid your gut and cells with all the minerals that typically get flushed out by structural stress-modus. Such as Sodium, Zinc, Selenium and Molybdenum and Magnesium. Chicken broth and egg yokes are good for this. As are supplements.

Also: you are prone to develop head aches from cheese. I'm not kidding. There's this substance called Tyramine and you cannot process this fast enough with your TT. It's in cured and fermented foods such as cheese, ham, bacon, beer, yeast. Also in yeast pills, cottage cheese, ripe pineapple, soup seasonings, cheesecake, sauerkraut.
Avoiding these foods will also lessen the stress on your body cells and waste elimation systems.

Good luck

 

[charlie1]

Thanks! That info is interesting. You're right, I do have trouble with headaches when ingesting foods high in tyramine, especially wine and aged cheese and smoked meats. I'm ok with mild cheeses like creamy havarti though. yay!

And yes, it takes me a long time to unwind when I've been overstimulated from even just a lengthy conversation. Texting on the phone is ridiculously difficult for me...it can bring POTS symptoms back if I'm texting more than a few minutes! I know those things are types of 'stresses' for me but never realized it could be due to my genes. Then again, these things weren't stressors for me before getting sick so something else is still going on re: residual dysautonomia / PEM triggers.

As for dietary habits, I eat similar to the way you do, and also have been adding mineral water to my liquid intake....still showing minerals to be low-average on bloodwork.

IF I'm understanding what you said correctly, wouldn't MAO A homozygous have similar responses to people who take MAOI's?? If the inhibition of tyramine can cause low blood pressure, as the literature states, maybe that explains my lifetime of low- very low blood pressure and heart rate... doctors don't know why it is. But maybe there's not relation at all!

Well, back to the "slow transit' title of the thread, I will be trying Parasym Plus (Dr. Diana) within the next week for issues with "C" and my occasional POTSY symptoms. If I don't find it helps with the C, I'm going to try 5HTP next. If EDS is the cause of slow transit, this may be a long road of trial and error.

Thanks again @WoolPippi
Charlie

 

[WoolPippi]

IF I'm understanding what you said correctly, wouldn't MAO A homozygous have similar responses to people who take MAOI's??

yes. And vice versa: whatever advice works for them is worth looking into for us.

In ADHD people the MAO A works too fast. They fare well with MAOI's. So whatever advice works for them: the opposite is worth looking into for us.

SKIP REST of post if tired.
TL;DR: I think poo tells a lot about gut functionality. Digestion takes a lot of energy. It's ok to stop eating veggies, raw foods and fibres.

ANECDOTAL INFO ABOUT MY BP and HR. .
my heart rate was low (42 bpm) while I was healthy. Then I got sick and my heart rate went up (60-80 bpm just lying in bed).
Now I don't know where it is. Not that low. Not that high either. I do have occasional palpitations and flutters since two years.

My bp was normal when I was healthy (119/90 in my '20s). Then I got sick (at age 35) and BP plummeted below adequacy (90/60 on average). This resulted in nutrients not pushed into the tissues of the body. Causing malnutrition at the cell level. This was measured in hair samples.

Now, after 8 years of illness, I'm up and doing things again, with help of corticosteroids, but BP stays low. (90/60 to 100/65). Dr. won't prescribe Florinef though (that's an HRT for Aldosteron, the mineral-corticoid that raises BP, because Renin in the blood looks good.) I get by with salted foods and drinks. And horizontal rests during the day. Stress wipes me out fast. I wear ear plugs and ear mufflers a couple of hours a day because stressors come in many forms.
I look at advice for autistic people because they are overwhelmed easily. Whatever works for them works for me.

Only during these horizontal rests does my stomach empty (leading to uptake of nutrients in the duodenum) and does my colon work (I massage my tummy a bit to help trapped air along).

To me it's all connected. The stress-system (HPA, adrenals, cortisol, amygdala, CNS), the gut system, the BP, having horizontal rests and giving the body cells what they need (minerals, BP and a way to dump their waste).

BACK TO THE GUT: SWALLOWING AIR and A BENDY COLON. ANECDOTAL.
I've also discovered I have two problems that cause constipation. One is I swallow a lot of air. It stays trapped in my stomach which somehow seems to hinder colonic transit. The traverse colon runs from the back of the liver to the front, crossed the exit of the stomach, than backwards again towards the spleen. At the cross with the stomach exit there's the big nerve (Vagus) and a big blood vessel running downwards. All kind of things interconnect there and a bloated stomach seems to hinder.
I massage it and flop on my belly to try and burp it out, the air. I also try to burp but I somehow never learned. I'm looking for a new swallowing habit to stop taking in so much air.

The other thing is a very steep bend in my colon, somewhere. Probably at the hepatic flexure. Any air in my colon gets trapped there and closes down the tube. I lie on my right, then flop on my back and stick my pelvis into the sky to try and work the air bubble form the hepatic flexure towards the splenic flexure and then towards the exit. My idea is "air rises" so I stick the part where I want the bubble to travel towards into the sky.
This helps. I fart a little bit each time I do this "bed-gymnastics".

I also try to cause as little air in my colon as possible. By eating non-gassy foods. Fibres and starchy foods cause gas (beans, potatoes, corn). Sugars too (also milk sugars) and especially sorbitol (chewing gum, tooth paste). Plus the obvious foods rich in sulphur and cruciferous (beans, kale, broccoli, onions). There is always air production in the colon, by the bacteria. But you can reduce the volume.

Fibres slow down the colonic transit in me. It's good for people who eat fast food and need fibres to loosen up the stool. For me fibres slow me down. As a result I stopped eating wholegrains, vegetables, corn, cocos, grass. Only 6 months ago.

Stool can tell a lot about how your colon and your small intestines are doing. If it's dark, it's good. Liver is making bile, bile is the best waste exporter there is.

"LET'S TALK ABOUT POO, BABY"
My stool is a series of little pebbles mashed together. They are not hard. This tells me they have not stayed long in the second part of the colon, where all the water is taken from the stool. My constipation is not in the descending colon or sigmoid colon.

The pebbles are small, each one smaller than a finger nail. The size is probably an indication that there's a point in my colon where only small parcels of the fluid stool can pass. At that very steep hepatic bend perhaps. Or perhaps I have a rare thing called a Colonic Stenosis, where the colon has shrunk and passage is very small. This would explain why each night my colonic activity at traverse colon stops and the ascending colon fills up. Causing insomnia, every night, all my life.

The Low fibre diet and the low gassy diet and my "gymnastics" help with better passage. And abdominal exercise right before bed (mainly kettlebelling and belly massage. I've looked at what works for IBS people). For the first time in my life I now sleep through the night. Stool still looks the same but frequency has upped. And I'm learning to appreciate burping and farting.

omg, I was just going to give a short answer to your question about the MAOIs

 

[slowmot]

Anyone have any updates? I've dealt with slow motility from ages 19-25, and there seems to be two significant factors at play:
- I took antibiotics 18 months ago and experienced full relief for 9-12 months, after which it slowly started slowing down. When I say relief, I mean an average of 9 full and satisfying bowel movements a week. I'm back to 3 a week now.
- If I get anxious, excited, nervous etc, I get the instant urge to defecate and produce a significant bowel movement. Otherwise, it's just once every 2-3 days

Traditional treatments don't seem to help, e.g. psyllium husk, probiotics, consuming more vegetables etc

Thanks for reading

 

[Gondwanaland]

If I get anxious, excited, nervous etc, I get the instant urge to defecate and produce a significant bowel movement.

It sounds like you need a serotonin overload to be able to get a bowel movement.

 

[slowmot]

It sounds like you need a serotonin overload to be able to get a bowel movement.

The thought occurred to me after reading this thread. How do I test this hypothesis?

 

[Gondwanaland]

The thought occurred to me after reading this thread. How do I test this hypothesis?

I usually get a BM whenever I take something that directly raises serotonin (e.g. 5-Htp, estrogen, B6). But if I take them continuously the effect on gut is usually non-repeatable and after a while serotonin syndrome might start if there isn't enough B2

 

[SwanRonson]

@slowmot Couple of questions:

1. Do you respond to Miralax?
2. What does an average day of eating look like for you?

For instance, a typical day for me would be:

Upon waking (6:30am): 1 cup of mineral water and 2 cups of decaf coffee with organic heavy cream (no carageenan or other gums)

Lunch (12:30pm): sweet potato or regular potato chips fried in coconut oil, small helping of meat, naval orange

Dinner (6:30pm): vegetable soup (green beans, ground beef, tomatoes, carrots, peas, stock), naval orange

Before Bed (11:00pm): naval orange with my nightly supplements​

Can you quantify what an average day of eating looks like for you in a way close to what I just showed?

Traditional treatments don't seem to help, e.g. psyllium husk, probiotics, consuming more vegetables etc

My personal opinion is that most of the time with chronic constipation, added fiber, probiotics and/or eating more food (of any type) is counterproductive. I wouldn't waste time, health or money with any of those things.

 

[overtheedge]

I've had some serious long term constipation in the past, the first time it was absolutely terrible, years of having barely more than a movement a week, tried a lot of things but eventually came upon Betaine HCL and Digestive Enzymes which normalized my bowel movements within a few days, don't know which specifically is responsible. Betaine HCL is a strong acid meant to acidify the stomach, I only had to take one table with meals but some recommend more such as increasing the dose you take with meals till the dose induces burning and then reducing the dose to one less tablet than would cause the burning. Never take the stuff without food. If you don't notice any difference from taking Betaine HCL after a while it might be best to stop using it as your body may not need the acid and might be getting too much, again, the results were immediate for me, within days and definitely within less than a week I noticed a certain increase in bowel function.

My bowel funciton continued to improve over the course of several months after starting Betaine HCL and digestive enzymes until it was really working well and right around the time it started really functioning perfectly the CFS I had at the time went away, it might well have stayed away too if i hadn't immediately jumped into working long hours under very stressful conditions for nonstop immediately after getting back to wellness.

The second time i developed severe consipation was when this most recent CFS hit me a few years ago, started only having one movement every three days, tried the betaine hcl and enzymes again with no results, after some months i tried DGL which is a form of licorice, immediately my bowel movements increased to one per day. I took DGL for around 9 months then stopped to see what would happen, turns out it permanently fixed the problem so I no longer need to take the DGL.

I should mention that I still take digestive enzymes, don't notice any overt effect from it but I see results on the stool test I take every now and then, the chymotrypsin levels were low but normalized as i increased the dosage of digestive enzymes from one to eventually two with each meal.

I think the constipation and the CFS or the state that allowed CFS came about as a result of stimulants I took as a child for hyperactivity, I wouldn't have movements on days where I took the drugs nor would I have an appetite during the day, I also had to deal with insomnia, paranoia, and fatigue on the days where the meds were used but being a kid I never put 2 and 2 together.

 

[yurybx]

@overtheedge, tell me, please, which enzymes do you take? I'm looking for a cure for my lazy gastrointestinal tract.