Sleeping for the first time in my life - Amitriptyline

[Carola]

Im wondering if its noradrenaline causing the problem, not serotonin. Here is a cut and paste of dr Mariano's experience with cfs patients and noradrenaline.

[....]

Loss of well being may reflect low dopamine with high norepinephrine levels. Dopamine is the reward signal, the signal that one feels well, whatever the norepinephrine level is - high or low. But the levels of dopamine and norepinephrine may also be a secondary reflection of immune system pro-inflammatory vs. antiinflammatory balance, current endocrine status, current nutritional status, etc.

Loss of motivation my reflect low dopamine and/or low norepinephrine, but also may reflect high pro-inflammatory cytokine signaling, low cortisol signaling, low estrogen signaling, suboptimal nutritional status supporting these signals, etc. etc.

Loss of creativity may reflect the sum of multiple signaling and metabolic problems not just low dopamine or low norepinephrine.

So interesting - I wish I could understand all of the science here, but the above paragraphs in particular caught my eye, especially the mention of "well being" and "motivation," things I experienced after my first dose of amitriptyline for the first time in ages . I loved it. Then everything went into overdrive.

 

[Lotus97]

Im wondering if its noradrenaline causing the problem, not serotonin. Here is a cut and paste of dr Mariano's experience with cfs patients and noradrenaline.
Generally, I do not see low brain norepinephrine (noradrenaline) levels in chronic fatigue syndrome. It may be low in patients who want to sleep all the time. But generally, the patients I see have insomnia instead. Insomnia is condition caused by excessive norepinephrine production.

When cortisol is low, norepinephrine generally goes too high since cortisol can no longer control norepinephrine signaling well.

Is there any way to know what's going on without getting tested? If I do have low cortisol and high norepinephrine would taking supplements that lower cortisol make my problem worse or just not make things any better?

 

[heapsreal]

Is there any way to know what's going on without getting tested? If I do have low cortisol and high norepinephrine would taking supplements that lower cortisol make my problem worse or just not make things any better?

Hard to know without testing but at a guess many people with sleep problems have high night time cortisol, so trying something like phosphatidyleserine at 500mg could help, try to get it without anything else added to it as some have phos choline which can be stimulating. I think alot of us just have abnormal cortisol rhthyms with slightly low total cortisol levels. Could try boosting morning cortisol to help change this rhthym and block night time cortisol. just start low with anything that boosts cortisol eg pregenolone, isocorte etc.
I have also read that some people have increase noradrenaline levels as the body uses this to compensate for low total cortisol and when hydrocortisol was used these noradrenaline episodes stopped/reduced. I think of cortisol basically as a long term adrenaline/noradrenaline, where adrenaline is for those short bursts of energy, so constant adrenal rushes u would think be trying to compensate for low cortisol. if u can try to get a 4 times a day saliva test, a morning cortisol blood test can only give u an idea on morning energy levels with cortisol which should be in the top of the normal range, if its in the normal range but low then this is also not normal/optimal and a sign of adrenal dysfunction.

 

[anni66]

Thanks for this info. My 15 year old daughter has ME. She has developed muscle pain , particularly neck and shoulder's which has seriously affected her sleep: she' s functioning around 20:30% .The paediatrician has suggested amitriptyline to deal with pain and sleep.I am a little hesitant as she has a low immune system - she had a bad reaction to vitamin D last year and still has some exczema from this. I was told that the main side effect was a dry mouth! At least if we do go forward we know more about what to expect .