Sleep Cycle Inversion (Awake At Night, Sleeping During Day): A Simple Technique Fixed This For Me

[Mary]

I tried some timed-release melatonin in a capsule with biotin, and it made me feel sleepy but also feel drugged. Is that unexpected?

I don't think it's unusual. Melatonin used to leave me feeling drugged - I was very sensitive to lots of things (e.g., Benadryl when I tried it for sleep). After I did a liver detox, my extreme sensitivity disappeared.

You might try cutting the dose - maybe you were taking too much - or if you weren't taking a lot, maybe look into doing a liver cleanse. I had a lot of toxins from a job I had had, where I had heavy exposure to chemical solvents. My poor liver was pretty overloaded, but much better after doing the detox.

 

[Mary]

if I take 3g of GABA, my pupils will dilate

I read not too long ago that we have GABA receptors in the gut as well as the brain, so even though it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, we will be able to use it, or some of it.

 

[Mary]

@Dreambirdie - one more thing I forgot to add. I also take 2 gelatin packets with my evening sleep cocktail. I dissolve 2 plain gelatin packets (equivalent to 2 tablespoons gelatin) in cold water and just drink it with the pills. Gelatin is high in glycine, a calming neurotransmitter. When I first tried one packet of gelatin over a year ago, it hit me like a truck - had a very strong detox reaction. And then I read that glycine is used in Phase II liver detoxification. For some reason I can tolerate it now, maybe my body is working better or I've lessened my toxic load - but just something to be aware. You can buy bulk gelatin too.

 

[Sherlock]

I read not too long ago that we have GABA receptors in the gut as well as the brain, so even though it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, we will be able to use it, or some of it.

Thanks for the heads up. Here we are:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3153004/

Like GABA, GABAB receptors have been detected throughout the gut of several species in the enteric nervous system

but then again:

Such widespread distribution of this metabotropic GABA receptor is consistent with its significant modulatory role over intestinal motility, gastric emptying, gastric acid secretion, transient lower esophageal sphincter relaxation and visceral sensation of painful colonic stimuli.

I don't quite see how gut receptors would influence eye pupils. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[Dreambirdie]

@Dreambirdie - one more thing I forgot to add. I also take 2 gelatin packets with my evening sleep cocktail. I dissolve 2 plain gelatin packets (equivalent to 2 tablespoons gelatin) in cold water and just drink it with the pills. Gelatin is high in glycine, a calming neurotransmitter. When I first tried one packet of gelatin over a year ago, it hit me like a truck - had a very strong detox reaction. And then I read that glycine is used in Phase II liver detoxification. For some reason I can tolerate it now, maybe my body is working better or I've lessened my toxic load - but just something to be aware. You can buy bulk gelatin too.

I tried the niacin last night and am in HELL today. It gave me prickly, itchy, burning all over my body for 2 hours and reeked havoc on my pulse/circulation. My pulse was booming since I took it at 3 am. I am agitated, exhaustd, and a lot worse.

Niacin is now in the trash. NEVER AGAIN.

I think my body is very different that yours, and I will pass on trying any more experiments for now.

Thanks, but no thanks on the glycine.

 

[Mary]

@Dreambirdie - I'm really sorry to hear what a rough time you had with the niacin. I'm sure you're right, our bodies must be very different. You still might get your cortisol levels checked with the Adrenal Stress Index Test - it might provide useful information for you re middle of the night insomnia.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

For night owls who have difficulty falling asleep at night, it is best to avoid computer activities because the light hitting your eyes will make your body think it's daytime. Have a cut-off time for computer activities, like 7 p.m. For die-hard computer fanatics, there are some programs that will alter the light spectrum coming from your computer and I think there may even be glasses that alter the spectrum. However, for me, it is just easiest to avoid the light AND mental stimulation of the computer.

Reading a very boring book at bedtime is also helpful, like calculus or accounting methods, unless these give you a thrill.

I avoid computer activities after 7 p.m., and take 4mg of sublingual melatonin at 11 p.m. I take one and one-half of these Source Naturals tablets:
www.amazon.com/Source-Naturals-Melatonin-Peppermint-Tablets/dp/B000GFPCN4

Our ancestors went to bed when it was dark and got up when it was light. There are also stories of there being two separate sleep periods, such as 9 pm to 2 am, then an awake period for quiet activity, then back to bed at around 4 am. The first period of sleep was called "first sleep" and the second period of sleep was called "second sleep."

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783
http://www.history.vt.edu/Ekirch/sleepcommentary.html

 

[Bob]

There are also stories of there being two separate sleep periods, such as 9 am to 2 am, then an awake period for quiet activity, then back to bed at around 4 am. The first period of sleep was called "first sleep" and the second period of sleep was called "second sleep."

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783
http://www.history.vt.edu/Ekirch/sleepcommentary.html

Yes, I've read about that before. I thought that was interesting, and kind-of-quaint. It seems very natural to have a broken sleep, and it can be really pleasant to get up in the middle of the night for a while, as long as it's not a case of insomnia.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

There are also stories of there being two separate sleep periods, such as 9 am to 2 am

Errr, sorry, make that 9 pm to 2 am.

Yes, I've read about that before. I thought that was interesting, and kind-of-quaint. It seems very natural to have a broken sleep, and it can be really pleasant to get up in the middle of the night for a while, as long as it's not a case of insomnia.

I think this was possible because people went to bed at an early hour. Going to bed as late as midnight like many modern folks do doesn't allow for a natural time to wake up in the middle of the night.

 

[Valentijn]

Melatonin is the only thing which gets me out of jet lag. I take it when it's bed time (9-10pm for me), not when I'm tired, since the point is tell the body when it's time to sleep, and hopefully get the body to cooperate.

I generally have to take it for a couple nights to get adapted. But I avoid it as much as possible because it turns me into a zombie the next day. So I don't take it regularly.

Currently (I just got back from the US) it is helping to knock me out around 10pm, but then my gut still insists it's dinner time at 3am and I can't get to sleep until I eat. But then I'm back to sleep until noon.

 

[physicsstudent13]

it took me 6 terrible years to find this, klonopin+gabapentin helps increase sleep architecture and slow wave sleep

 

[jess100]

HIP I was able to reset my sleep patterns as you did by taking varios natural sleep aids every night at the same time-before starting a bed time routine. They contain a combination of melatonin, valerian root, hops, l-theanine, etc. By the time I'm done with getting ready for bed the melatonin (or other kind) has already started working for me. I'm falling asleep almost every night easily and have been awake during the day for 3 weeks now. At times one will stop working and I will switch to another for a few days.
I was also told by my doctor to take magnesium before bed. Since this also helps with restless leg syndrome- which some times bothers me-I've started taking magnesium as well. It seems to be helping.
Staying off the computer at night is also a big help. So I'm turning it off and keeping it out of the bedroom.
Then last week I had a sleep test and mild sleep apnea was found. After my first night sleeping with the CPAP machine I felt great all day-I haven't felt this well for years. I was actually cheerful and hopeful and my memory was great-no walking room to room wondering what I was supposed to be doing.I felt like a whole different person. Today is the second day after sleeping with the CPAP and I don't feel as good as yesterday-but will try to stay awake to keep my body on schedule.

 

[gbells]

One capsule is possibly not enough unless you are lucky. I tried to find the window once, took it at different times of the day, but did not succeed. I may simply be a non responder.

Melatonin is one of a great many factors affecting sleep. Further, we now know there is another sleep center ... its not all in the hyperthalamic SCN.

Remember the mechanism for melatonin is that it provides the same signal that avoiding blue (and white) light does so if you avoid bright lights for 2 hours before bedtime you're essentially doing the same thing.

 

[Hipsman]

I have been taking 5mg of sublingual melatonin 30 minutes before sleep for at least 3 months now, I find it very helpful for falling asleep at 10 PM and normalizing sleep schedule. Since developing ME/CFS my sleep schedule shifted from falling asleep at 10 PM to falling asleep at 1-2 AM, or later. Now I'm back to falling asleep at 10-11 PM thanks to melatonin.

I was holding out to post about this only after testing how late I will fall asleep if I don't take melatonin, but I'm reluctant to do it since I feel I would fall asleep much later...

Also, I noticed if I'm not careful with getting melatonin to go sublingual route (e.g: some powder gets swallowed with saliva), I have much harder time falling asleep. In these cases I take 5mg of sublingual melatonin one more time. Usually, I quickly fall asleep after the second dose.

 

[Hip]

I noticed if I'm not careful with getting melatonin to go sublingual route (e.g: some powder gets swallowed with saliva), I have much harder time falling asleep.

Recently I've been taking 5 mg of melatonin orally; I find this takes up to two hours to kick in. So if you want to go the oral route, you need to take it 2 hours before your planned bedtime.

Whereas sublingual melatonin kicks in faster, within 30 minutes to an hour.

By the way, when I apply any powder sublingually, I actually use my forefinger to massage the powder into all the mucous membranes of my mouth: under the tongue, but also on the inside cheeks and gums (this I think is a good place to apply, especially on the upper gum area and cheek, as it will not get so easily washed away by saliva).

 

[lenora]

What if you're on prescription anti-anxiety meds? I used melatonin probably 30 yrs. ago (pills, not sublingually) and only ended up having horrid dreams for about an hr. or two and was then up for the rest of the night.

At present, I fall into a deep sleep and last night, for example, I was up by 11:30 p.m., and there will be no more sleep. I literally go days in this state, exhausted all of the time, but always try to push myself forward. I agree that a normal bedtime for me would be about 4:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. It doesn't sound like much sleep, but for me, it's worth it.

I'm also on a statin whichthe side-effect of insomnia, along with about 20 other problems. . My cholesterol levels are not bad at the moment and I'm greatly tempted to stop the medication and see what the next blood test shows. I have 5 stents in my heart, and just had a carotid artery one implanted. The side-effects of this drug are too much to deal with any longer. I wouldn't mind, but mine is genetic as we eat the perfect diet. Am I playing with fire by dropping the statin? I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks, Lenora.