Skyrocketing BP and HR after eating

[Seven7]

I saw a video that said an increase over 25% signals an allergy or sensitivity.
I have develop some over time that comes and go.
POTs also create some gut mobility issues but the symptoms are more like indigestion type I think. Vs just an increase on HR and bf.
My humble observation

 

[sb4]

@JaimeS I have similar symptoms but with everything I consume, even water. I'm sure that the major factor for me is POTS. I have been doing transdermal thiamine over the last week or so and it has definitely helped these symptoms.

 

[Forbin]

@Forbin, I think I've read that high fructose corn syrup is also loaded with sulfites(?) so that could be a double whammy if you're sensitive to them.

I looked into this and found a page that said that high fructose corn syrup actually has less sulfur (sulfites?) than regular corn syrup. Since I have no problem with regular corn syrup, it doesn't seem like it could be the sulfur.

I did run across some mention of an HFCS "allergy" which can be so extreme as to produced anaphylaxis, but it is thought to be a "corn" allergy - and, again, I can eat other forms of corn without a problem.

My best guess is that, post ME-onset, some system regards HFCS as being a LOT of sugar and so a lot of insulin is released. That crashes the blood sugar level, and the anaphylaxis-like symptoms are the result of a lot of adrenaline being released to combat that.

There is something similar called andrenergic postprandrial syndrome, but that comes on much more slowly and is thought to be caused by (surprise) anxiety.

I kind of doubt that I have anxieties that only manifest when I unwittingly (or wittingly) consume HFCS.

 

[alex3619]

Ate some delicious food, including grapes (high sugar, I know, but so lovely... and I haven't had issues with sugar for awhile.)

Grapes are not really high sugar. Most berries are lower in sugar than regular fruit. So the nutrient/sugar ratio is good. We had an exercise at uni to calculate how many grapes you would have to eat to meet energy needs. Its a large number of kilograms. maybe seven or so. I am not sure I could even eat seven kilos of grapes in a day if I wanted to. I could be misremembering the details though, this was from 15 or more years ago.

 

[alex3619]

I think I just consumed way more carbs than my body can actually handle at a go.

Modern data, as you are well aware, indicate ME may be another kind of glucose intolerance disorder. There is probably a maximum capacity, it may vary, and over that there might be issues.

My post prandial issues do not involve elevated heart rate, but I do not have POTS either, just NMH. I have eaten all sorts of food to test my reaction and there is no consistent reaction. When this happened in hospital my bp was fine. That does not tell me what my circulation was in my brain though. So cue severe brain fog and sleepiness, but with normal blood sugar and blood pressure.

I can eat high carbs, high fat, and high protein without a reaction. I do get a problem with wheat. I used to be salicylate sensitive but I tolerate them more now.

One thing I have become aware of is that our tolerance changes over time, and is often worse. I used to have no issue with wheat, and now its a big problem. I do not think this is a gluten reaction. So things which used to be safe may no longer be safe. Its slow and difficult to work this stuff out.

 

[Thewonders92]

Modern data, as you are well aware, indicate ME may be another kind of glucose intolerance disorder. There is probably a maximum capacity, it may vary, and over that there might be issues.

My post prandial issues do not involve elevated heart rate, but I do not have POTS either, just NMH. I have eaten all sorts of food to test my reaction and there is no consistent reaction. When this happened in hospital my bp was fine. That does not tell me what my circulation was in my brain though. So cue severe brain fog and sleepiness, but with normal blood sugar and blood pressure.

I can eat high carbs, high fat, and high protein without a reaction. I do get a problem with wheat. I used to be salicylate sensitive but I tolerate them more now.

One thing I have become aware of is that our tolerance changes over time, and is often worse. I used to have no issue with wheat, and now its a big problem. I do not think this is a gluten reaction. So things which used to be safe may no longer be safe. Its slow and difficult to work this stuff out.

Over what period of time did you go from being able to tolerate wheat to not being able to?

 

[alex3619]

Over what period of time did you go from being able to tolerate wheat to not being able to?

I don't know. Maybe eight years. But because I did not suspect wheat after testing wheat earlier on it took like a decade for me to retest wheat.

 

[JaimeS]

Mine was slow, too. I remember in my very early twenties getting a far worse 'carb coma' than my friends, and by mid-twenties I'd decided carbs were only okay if they came with fat and/or protein also (a bagel with peanut butter, e.g.). By late 20s I was avoiding gluten and carbs completely.

 

[JaimeS]

A year later I'm here to say it's probably the fructose itself. I don't handle it so well.

It seems to prompt a pretty swift pathogenic response, too.

 

[anni66]

A year later I'm here to say it's probably the fructose itself. I don't handle it so well.

It seems to prompt a pretty swift pathogenic response, too.

Liver OK? . Fructose can wreck merry hell over time with liver processing functions.

 

[JaimeS]

Liver OK? . Fructose can wreck merry hell over time with liver processing functions.

Yeah, that's my thinking as well. Well-spotted!

Basic liver function tests are good (though I'm told AST and ALT aren't super-reliable), and my liver processing genetic markers are also quite good, making dysfunction unlikely. But a lot of my digestive stuff would seem to be an issue with functions the liver is meant to handle, so I'm not sure.

 

[anni66]

Yeah, that's my thinking as well. Well-spotted!

Basic liver function tests are good (though I'm told AST and ALT aren't super-reliable), and my liver processing genetic markers are also quite good, making dysfunction unlikely. But a lot of my digestive stuff would seem to be an issue with functions the liver is meant to handle, so I'm not sure.

Tagging @mariovitali re fibroscans!
We can' t access one here (UK), but you may be in a different position?

 

[mariovitali]

Tagging @mariovitali re fibroscans!
We can' t access one here (UK), but you may be in a different position?

Unfortunately a fibroscan is not enough. Ideally we must check the level of bile acids (a test called Total bile acids which you may be able to get in the UK) and also composition of bile acids using HPLC testing.

 

[mariovitali]

Yeah, that's my thinking as well. Well-spotted!

Basic liver function tests are good (though I'm told AST and ALT aren't super-reliable), and my liver processing genetic markers are also quite good, making dysfunction unlikely. But a lot of my digestive stuff would seem to be an issue with functions the liver is meant to handle, so I'm not sure.

I do not know if you tested for NAFLD, i assume that you have.


Many references on how fructose consumption causes severe issues to the Liver. One example :

• The rapid rise in NAFLD prevalence supports the role of environmental factors.
• Overconsumption of HFCS in the soft-drink is linked to the rise in the prevalence of obesity and associated with NAFLD.
• Ingested carbohydrates are a major stimulus for hepatic DNL, and more likely to directly contribute to NAFLD than dietary fat intake.
• Fructose phosphorylation in the liver consumes ATP, consequently the accumulated ADP serves as substrate for uric acid formation.
• The lipogenic and proinflammatory effects of fructose appear to be due to transient ATP depletion.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4405421/


EDIT : From the same paper, interestingly :

Fructose is an intermediary in the metabolism of glucose (17-20). But, it differs in several ways from glucose. Fructose is poorly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract by a different mechanism than that for glucose (Figure 2). Most cells have only low amounts of the glucose transporter type-5 (GLUT-5) transporter, which transports fructose into cells. Glucose is transported into cells by GLUT-4, an insulin-dependent transport system. Fructose is almost entirely cleared by the liver.

 

[JaimeS]

"Fructose is an intermediary in the metabolism of glucose" -- what an interesting way to put it.

 

[JaimeS]

I do not know if you tested for NAFLD, i assume that you have.

That's diagnosed via AST and ALT levels, so far as I'm aware. Do you mean in some other way?

 

[mariovitali]

That's diagnosed via AST and ALT levels, so far as I'm aware. Do you mean in some other way?

You need an ultrasound to diagnose NAFLD

 

[Aurelius]

Have you considered doing a fructose tolerance test (if that's the proper name)? The one where you consume several gram of fructose and then breath into a bag every half hour or so. These tests can even be ordered online. In the end you will learn how fast the fructose travels through your system and how that compares to the average. I would check your blood sugar at the same time to compare with the results. I wonder what your readings might be.

 

[JaimeS]

Have you considered doing a fructose tolerance test (if that's the proper name)? The one where you consume several gram of fructose and then breath into a bag every half hour or so. These tests can even be ordered online. In the end you will learn how fast the fructose travels through your system and how that compares to the average. I would check your blood sugar at the same time to compare with the results. I wonder what your readings might be.

The hydrogen measured is also the product of other sugar intolerances and can even be due to SIBO... though I suppose you'd know for sure that something was up.