Sinus headache treatment

[Mya Symons]

I use a Gossan Irrigator. Have had about 25+ years of infected sinuses.

If I have an infection it can be painful to start with but clears them up really well. I can avoid antibiotics and antihistamines most of the time if I remember to keep using it. Tea tree and salt (and other things can be added)

http://www.hydromedonline.com/

I have a question for you ukxmrv. I have sinusitis also with the pain and would love to find something that actually works. I was told by an allergy doctor that irrigating is bad because it can cause sinus polyps. I think he was referring to the machine used years ago, but I am not sure. Have you heard about the irrigator/polyp connection. Do you think your irrigator is not the same as he was referring to?

 

[heapsreal]

2weeks of clarithromycin helped loosen up all the junk packed into the sinus and my nose start to run properly. other treTMENTS use were saline flushes to wash the baceria out so this an help stoop bacertial replicTING THESE VIRUSES nd making things worse. once sinus free up and junk can run out. I have recently started on azithromycin and it feel like its making an impact on it, what we dont know is how long do the treatmments go for, weeks, months etc

So we need abx, irrigation over the counter nasal spreays, antihistamines can be helpful if not already blocked. I have read 6 week in length for abx treatment needed for chronic sinus infectioin

 

[Nielk]

It's true for me that my sinus passages are all congested but, I don't have a runny nose and I don't need to blow my nose because it seems like it's all impacted in my sinus cavities which is the cause of the throbbing pain.
I'm afraid though to take antibiotics especially that I know it's a chronic problem for me. Even if anti biotics would help, it will just come back. I think it stems from some allergy or many allergies. That's the reason that I'm going to a Kinesiologist now to try to find the culprit. It's not an easy solution. It seems that there are many pathogens that are in my system and he is trying to clear them. I'm not sure about this treatment if it even works but, I'm trying it out for a while.
It seems like this last sentence I just wrote is the constant story of my life the past 9 years!

 

[In Vitro Infidelium]

I am suffering from chronic sinus headaches. Some days are truly unbearable.
I take Benadryl advil and vicodin but, when the headache is so intense, I get no relief.
Does anyone have any suggestions? please???

I think some of the discussion here is confused about the precise physiology of the facial sinuses - see Facial sinus cavities . The maxillary sinus is connected to the nasal cavity - but by a narrow opening, about the size of a pin head, there is therefore no direct connection with the experience of having a stuffed up nose and sinus pain. However, swelling of the nasal membrane, either because of infection and/or allergy can restrict the sinus opening and cause pressure to build, causing pain. Additionally the sinuses can become infected - if the infection is bacterial, it can be treated with antibiotics.

Antihisamine tablets (fexofendane as mentioned, comes in two strengths, the stonger of which may be worth investigating) and anti histamine sprays may help to reduce inflamation of the nasal membrane and/or swelling within the entrance to the sinus cavity. Not all anti histamine sprays have the same action and its worth exploring alternatives where one spray trurns out not to help or even makes the problem worse. Saline sprays are useful in keeping the nasal passage moist - however this needs to be separated from use of anti histamine spray to avoid flushing the treatment away before it has had time to have an effect.

There are specific medications aimed at reducing pressure in the sinuses - Sinutab and Sudofed market a range of over the counter products using different ingredient combinations. The primary effect is vaso dilatory, which helps open the tubes bewtween the sinus and nasal cavities . M.E/CFS affected people may need to be cautious about these medications as they can cause shaking, tremors, palpitations etc. I'd say the phenylephrine based versions are the quickest acting with the least side effects but I doubt this would be universal and everyone needs to check what works for them - there are a number of health conditions in which the various sinus treatments are contra indicated, so check these out before buying.

IVI

 

[maddietod]

This is probably stunningly obvious....but........have you considered food allergies? Milk is obvious, but a friend had raging sinus headaches until he stopped eating MSG every day. Also candida can cause congestion.

 

[heapsreal]

It's true for me that my sinus passages are all congested but, I don't have a runny nose and I don't need to blow my nose because it seems like it's all impacted in my sinus cavities which is the cause of the throbbing pain.
I'm afraid though to take antibiotics especially that I know it's a chronic problem for me. Even if anti biotics would help, it will just come back. I think it stems from some allergy or many allergies. That's the reason that I'm going to a Kinesiologist now to try to find the culprit. It's not an easy solution. It seems that there are many pathogens that are in my system and he is trying to clear them. I'm not sure about this treatment if it even works but, I'm trying it out for a while.
It seems like this last sentence I just wrote is the constant story of my life the past 9 years!

hi Nielk,

I dont want to sound like a smart A, but i dont understand your reasoning for not considering antibiotics. Even though its chronic, u dont know if abx will cure it or not, even short term relief can help with diagnosing it being bacterial and maybe require further investigation or longer abx courses. The earlier you can treat something the better or leaving it go longer can drive it deeper. This is the bit where i dont want to sound like a smart A , but not treating it because its chronic and will probably return is like not doing anything about cfs as it wont go away or will return. Im not saying jump straight into abx but i think its something u need to talk to your doc about and consider.

I thought my cfs was taking a real nose dive this year and i can say that taking abx and treating my sinus infection has really turned me around and im glad i have tried it. I was really considering having to leave work altogether as i was struggling, i didnt realise how much of a bearing this sinus infection had on me. Us cfsers are immune compromised and we are going to be prone to these other infections that will knocks us more then the average joe, so i think we are going to have to treat alot of things things as they come along as our immune system cant fight these infections like 'normal' people who eventually get over them if treated or not.

I dont want to sound like a smart A, but i think its something that could suprisingly improve your overall wellbeing.

good luck,
cheers!!!

 

[Nielk]

@IVI
@Madietod
@heapspreal

Thanks to all of you for your advices. I am using a steroid nasal spray for months already with no result. (I should probably give it up)
I did try many over the counter anti histamines. Sudafed sometimes helps a bit. There is definitely an element of food allergies. Dairy, makes it much worse and I have been staying away completely from dairy for years. I have gone for NAET for over a year and it seems that I'm sensitive to all foods. I don't understand how that is possible. They were clearing me but, after a year with no improvement, I (and my wallet) gave up. This new Kinesiologist that I'm going to said the same thing - I'm sensitive to everything he tested me on. He says that this shows him that the viruses that are in my body have to be cleared first otherwise it's impossible to clear anything with a lasting result. He is working on that now. It remains to be seen. When I told him that I had an operation 4c years ago on my sinuses to open up some passageways, he said that he is sure my problem came right back because as long as these pathogens are in my body, the problem will keep coming back. He was right. The operation didn't do anything. I have tried abx with not much results. Maybe it wasn't the right ones. I'll look into phenyleprine.
Thank you for your help,
Nielk

 

[heapsreal]

@IVI
@Madietod
@heapspreal

Thanks to all of you for your advices. I am using a steroid nasal spray for months already with no result. (I should probably give it up)
I did try many over the counter anti histamines. Sudafed sometimes helps a bit. There is definitely an element of food allergies. Dairy, makes it much worse and I have been staying away completely from dairy for years. I have gone for NAET for over a year and it seems that I'm sensitive to all foods. I don't understand how that is possible. They were clearing me but, after a year with no improvement, I (and my wallet) gave up. This new Kinesiologist that I'm going to said the same thing - I'm sensitive to everything he tested me on. He says that this shows him that the viruses that are in my body have to be cleared first otherwise it's impossible to clear anything with a lasting result. He is working on that now. It remains to be seen. When I told him that I had an operation 4c years ago on my sinuses to open up some passageways, he said that he is sure my problem came right back because as long as these pathogens are in my body, the problem will keep coming back. He was right. The operation didn't do anything. I have tried abx with not much results. Maybe it wasn't the right ones. I'll look into phenyleprine.
Thank you for your help,
Nielk

Sorry I must have misssed u mentioning abx and surgery before on sinuses. I suppose like u say our immune system is under alot of stress from different pathogens, it would be nice if there was something that got them all at once. Most abx will reduce the bacterial load but if our immune system cant keep them down on its own, then like u mentioned they will raise their ugly heads again. it seems to be a common theme with infections and cfs but abx or av's seem to be recommended for long treatment courses, which seem to help some but not alot of 'cures', its a merry go round.

good luck.

 

[Mya Symons]

If antibiotics work, is there a possibility a person might be a chronic sinus infection? I once went to a cfs and fms support group. There was a women there who finally had sinus surgery. They found more problems then expected. After she healed she no longer had cfs because she never did had it. She was diagnosed incorrectly. Her chronic sinus infections were so bad that they were keeping her in bed. I know, however, that people can get sinus infections when they do have cfs. It would be nice to be that woman, though!

 

[In Vitro Infidelium]

@IVI
@Madietod
@heapspreal

Thanks to all of you for your advices. I am using a steroid nasal spray for months already with no result. (I should probably give it up)
I did try many over the counter anti histamines. Sudafed sometimes helps a bit. There is definitely an element of food allergies. Dairy, makes it much worse and I have been staying away completely from dairy for years. I have gone for NAET for over a year and it seems that I'm sensitive to all foods. I don't understand how that is possible. They were clearing me but, after a year with no improvement, I (and my wallet) gave up. This new Kinesiologist that I'm going to said the same thing - I'm sensitive to everything he tested me on. He says that this shows him that the viruses that are in my body have to be cleared first otherwise it's impossible to clear anything with a lasting result. He is working on that now. It remains to be seen. When I told him that I had an operation 4c years ago on my sinuses to open up some passageways, he said that he is sure my problem came right back because as long as these pathogens are in my body, the problem will keep coming back. He was right. The operation didn't do anything. I have tried abx with not much results. Maybe it wasn't the right ones. I'll look into phenyleprine.Nielk

Adult intolerance of lactose is entirely normal in the human population and it is only a proportion (about 60%) of Caucasians that have a genetic adaptation that allows digestion of lactose post puberty. Foods containing lactose should probably be best considered as treat food to be consumed only in small quantities and very irregularly by most adults.

Other food intolerances are rare in adults and tests and reputed treatments should be approached with caution; commercial testing has been shown to be highly questionable. see: Food intolerance test Any limitation on dietary intake can have a significant impact on health, and although there may be a number of reasons why M.E/CFS sufferers could benefit from certain food exclusions it is something which needs to be addressed with great care. The only sensible way to approach the problem is by a process of exclusion/re-inclusion and with multiple foods involved this is a process that can take months or even years to get any meaningful data which could inform a healthy choice. Its not impossible to do this without support of a nutritionist but requires careful recording and a level of obsessive concern with ones food intake that in itself is not necessarily healthy.

Food allergy, intolerance and sensitivity are areas heavily populated by dubious practitioners know these forums have rules about not disparaging patient treatment choices, so Ill avoid comment on specifics but Id strongly suggest folks read Allergies: Dubious Diagnosis and Treatment and Phony Muscle-Testing for "Allergies" and "Nutrient Deficiencies" before parting with any money.

When it comes to headache in M.E/CFS there may be grounds for caution over the use of medication because of a revolving door effect: Medication-overuse Headache . As with alcohol intolerance, it may be that intolerance to some/many pain killers is a characteristic of M.E/CFS, if one does have a problem with one or more painkillers it then becomes a question of balance between intolerable pain and becoming more ill, though the dangers of a vicious circle are obvious.

If airborne allergy is a known or likely source of sinus/nasal problems then it is probably safest for M.E/CFS sufferers to concentrate on avoiding exposure. Wearing face masks during times of particular exposure cleaning, gardening etc, reducing time spent out doors in areas susceptible to high allergen counts, drying washing indoors during high allergy seasons etc.

IVI

 

[In Vitro Infidelium]

I have a question for you ukxmrv. I have sinusitis also with the pain and would love to find something that actually works. I was told by an allergy doctor that irrigating is bad because it can cause sinus polyps. I think he was referring to the machine used years ago, but I am not sure. Have you heard about the irrigator/polyp connection. Do you think your irrigator is not the same as he was referring to?

I've not heard of the polyp connection, but there is an argument that regular flushing and/or use of steroid sprays alters that natural flora that would otherwise line the nasal passage, leading to increased infection and/or inflamation of the nasal tissues. Steroids can cause tissue thinning which in turn can lead to rupture of fine blood vessels, in the nose this leads to frequent nose bleeds, so anyone using steroid sprays who develops nose bleeds needs to take a break from the spray.

IVI

 

[heapsreal]

also not just viral or bacterial infections implicated but also fungal/yeats infections can be invovled, i have heard of antifungal nose sprays which may help

 

[heapsreal]

If antibiotics work, is there a possibility a person might be a chronic sinus infection? I once went to a cfs and fms support group. There was a women there who finally had sinus surgery. They found more problems then expected. After she healed she no longer had cfs because she never did had it. She was diagnosed incorrectly. Her chronic sinus infections were so bad that they were keeping her in bed. I know, however, that people can get sinus infections when they do have cfs. It would be nice to be that woman, though!

I could understand sinus infection be the soul cause of chronic fatigue, it made me a good 50% worse with my head constantly throbbing unless i was full of tramadol to numb the pain, i now feel back to where i was at the beginning of the year prior to sinus infection now. I was making good progress on antivirals prior to the sinuses, so im hoping that the sinus stuff doesnt return because of my poor nk function. go's to show are all all full of it ie infections, lol.

 

[Graham]

Nielk, you and I seem to share a lot in common with sinuses. My nose doesn't run, but my sinuses, around the eyes and above the teeth, feel full and thick. I did cut out dairy because of a lactose problem (double blind tested often - it's amazing what things suddenly have milk powder added to them!), but now I drink Lactofree milk with no effects. My son and I are very similar, and between us we have tried a number of careful exclusion diets, all to no effect, so I am with In Vitro on this one - I think the "allergy" line is overhyped. I know what makes my sinuses worse - dry soil, house dust, mould spores, sawdust, and there are other things that I have not been able to identify. I have tried washes, sprays, neti pot, antibiotics (which can work for a short period, but then the problem returns), inhaling, dental checks, painkillers, anti-inflammatories, .. the list goes on. The only thing that has kept the pain down is the strong anti-histamine (but as I said, I am aware of it lurking in the background). My sinuses still are not clear though (every now and then, for some odd reason, they do clear, and suddenly it is like my head has been rinsed in crystal-clear water and everything is fresh). I wish for both of our sakes that I could come up with something better, but the strong antihistamine has made a great difference.

Heapsreal comments about fungal infections in the sinuses was backed up by some recent research by the Mayo clinic and here - obviously that also lets in the risk of bacterial problems as well. I gather that we all have a range of fungi in our sinuses (well, we have stuff everywhere, don't we?), but our immune system acts inappropriately strongly to their presence - sounds so linked to ME, doesn't it? There's advice that our sinuses can be tested to see if it is the problem, but I'm not aware of that being an option in the UK: you may be more lucky.

 

[Nielk]

Hi Graham,
Sorry to hear that both you and your son also suffer from the same problem.
My thinking is that whatever is attacking our bodies causing M.E., has the strongest effect in the weakest part of our body. Like I mentioned earlier, I suffered from sinus problems since a child. After my operation for deviated septum, it got better but, I would still get some sinus infections. Since I got hit with M.E, it has become a chronic, increasingly severe problem. I may be wrong but, I don't think that my chronic sinusitis is the cause of my fatigue. I think that since contracting M.E., my sinus problem has become much worse and chronic. Besides dairy, I know that my sinuses get worse from seasonal allergies - pollen. In addition, when it's a windy day, the pain goes through the roof! I don't know if it's because of the change in the barimetric pressure or because the pollen gets thrown all over the place. What is so strange to me is that even though I'm in bed in my bedroom with all windows closed, the ac blowing and I have an air filter on constantly, if it's a windy day, I am going to be very sick without fail. It's like win is my biggest enemy.
I think that others who have suffered from asthma since childhood and now they have M.E., I think that their lungs will be adversly effected because that is the weakness in their body.
I have been on constant antihistamines for years and years. I'm sure that's doing wonders for my body! I can't live without it though.
I ordered the irrigation system that ukxmrv suggested and hope that will help. In addition, this new Kinesiologist that I go to gave me drops to put in some water and wash out my nose with it. I'll see if that will help. Hot steaming is alway soothing but temporary.

 

[Graham]

Please let us know how you get on - I gather there are quite a few of us with ME who also have sinus problems. As you say, whatever it is that ME is doing, whatever our weakness is, it seems to be hit. Good luck!

I did see a programme a few years ago where someone with asthma deliberately dosed himself with worms. His theory was that for most of human lifetime, we have had parasites inside our bodies, and certain worms effectively give out anti-histamine type effects. It's only relatively recently that we have been able to get rid of them, and perhaps our immune system is too responsive. He actually found that it helped his asthma a lot, and then was in a quandry of whether to carry on with worms or get rid of them - he decided to get rid of them, and back came the asthma (at least, I think it was asthma - my memory isn't reliable). Perhaps that will be the next suggested treatment for ME - parasites!

 

[3CFIDS@ourhouse]

Nielk, I know you've gotten lots of good advice here, but I'll just add what works for me. I absolutely cannot take antihistamines because they cause my sinuses to be even more congested and have even led to infections. Using a neti pot with saline and a drop of grapefruit seed extract (natural antifungal, antibiotic properties) helps as does guaifenesin to help things drain (but only if I don't use it for more than a couple of days in a row- not sure why). Also, when the pain is the worst, I heat a washcloth until I can scarcely stand it and put it on the back of my neck, on my forehead, and under my eyes alternately. I have to keep reheating it and it's messy, but after several cycles I start to get relief. The other thing that helps a lot is to massage the back of my neck (along the sides of the spinal column) vigorously. I have the feeling poor blood flow to the sinuses is a factor as well. I also have a special filter where I sleep that not only filters out pollen/dust but also chemicals. I hope you get some relief!

 

[heapsreal]

I dont know if other countries have it but in australia we have a product called vics vapor rub, normally rubbed on chest and breath the fumes in but is better used as a steam when placed in a bowl of hot water and put a towel over your head and the bowl and breath in the fumes, this helps open up the nose/sinuses and airways and u just let everything drain out into the bowel. vics contains camphor, menthol and eucalyptus. I think opening up and letting the sinuses drain out is half the battle as this clogging up is a good environment for bugs to breed.

 

[heapsreal]

Thanks for starting this post nielk, i have been reading up alot on sinus infections and thinking it could be a major co-infection for me. Even though im feeling better with abx, i notice when i block one nostril it is difficult to breath through the other and vice versa and this has improved although still present. I have read that frontal sinus infections obviously cause frontal headaches which i always seem to get and it does say that a runny nose isnt neccessary but that post nasal drip with that constant urge to clear your throat is common, i have had this for awhile now off and on as in years. I have just read that chronic red eyes are also common, wow that is me to a T. Does anyone else with sinusitis have chronic red eyes too? When i see my doc next im going to talk to him about a ct scan of my sinuses. Its also interesting that i use the abx doxycyline off and on for my red eyes which help while on and for a few weeks afterwards, im thinking it wasnt helping by treating an eye infection like i thought i had but a sinus infection. Interesting interesting, another line to investigate and hopefully improve.

cheers!!!

 

[*GG*]

Hi Graham,
Sorry to hear that both you and your son also suffer from the same problem.

My thinking is that whatever is attacking our bodies causing M.E., has the strongest effect in the weakest part of our body. Like I mentioned earlier, I suffered from sinus problems since a child. After my operation for deviated septum, it got better but, I would still get some sinus infections. Since I got hit with M.E, it has become a chronic, increasingly severe problem. I may be wrong but, I don't think that my chronic sinusitis is the cause of my fatigue. I think that since contracting M.E., my sinus problem has become much worse and chronic. Besides dairy, I know that my sinuses get worse from seasonal allergies - pollen. In addition, when it's a windy day, the pain goes through the roof! I don't know if it's because of the change in the barimetric pressure or because the pollen gets thrown all over the place. What is so strange to me is that even though I'm in bed in my bedroom with all windows closed, the ac blowing and I have an air filter on constantly, if it's a windy day, I am going to be very sick without fail. It's like win is my biggest enemy.

I think that others who have suffered from asthma since childhood and now they have M.E., I think that their lungs will be adversly effected because that is the weakness in their body.

I have been on constant antihistamines for years and years. I'm sure that's doing wonders for my body! I can't live without it though.

I ordered the irrigation system that ukxmrv suggested and hope that will help. In addition, this new Kinesiologist that I go to gave me drops to put in some water and wash out my nose with it. I'll see if that will help. Hot steaming is alway soothing but temporary.

Do you get buildup in your Nostrils? Have you ever had a swab done and medicine prescribed for such a thing?

GG

PS I used to have lots of nasal crusties and my Dr did a swab and prescribed some compounded drug, and it is much better now. I use a VPAP and am not the best on maintenance, so I occasionaly get some crusties still. FYI