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Simon Wessely's latest

Tammie

Senior Member
Messages
793
Location
Woodridge, IL
well, I wrote my responses before reading the comment about defamation, but I think that for the most part....
.....we have been joking about this stuff...
.....we are not writing this in a truly public venue......
....he has pretty much made a career out of defamation of us......
.....and what is written on this part of this forum is not likely to exact any real harm on him......
......and even if he somehow found this, took offense, tried to charge us with defamation, and actually was successful, it's not like most of us have any financial resources for him to receive compensation from.....
...if anything that last part would help to disprove one of the things that he claims is a key motivator for illness behavior (that of financial gain w/o working for it)
 

Martlet

Senior Member
Messages
1,837
Location
Near St Louis, MO
Tammie - The law in the UK, as it currently stands, refers to emails and internet forums as much to any other form of communication. Last year, the High Court decided that communication in emails is libel but on internet bulletin boards (which this is) is slander as it is seem more as speech. Even chat rooms are not immune!

I'm not saying that Wessely would want to sue, but I am saying that he almost certainly could if he wanted to.
 
G

Gerwyn

Guest
British laws are much stricter in their application than US laws, and let's remember that this is an international forum.

In the UK, the onus is not on the one being defamed to prove that what is said is false. It is exactly the opposite in that if a person takes someone to court for libel or slander, the accused has to prove that what they said is true. Neither judge nor jury in the UK have to be convinced that what is said is actually damaging. Their task, once a statement is proved false, is only to decide on the damages to be awarded.

In Wessely's case, people might be able to prove that they have been damaged by him/his views but no-one here would be able to prove allegations that he is mentally ill!

There are millions of people walking about with attachment disorders mental illness is something else.He would have to prove damage to his professional reputation practice etc-----A recent judgement has decided that comments on forums is like chatting in a pub and slander which is rarely actionable.He,s a crazy coot etc- slander but not judged as permanent more like abuse which is not defamation
 

Martlet

Senior Member
Messages
1,837
Location
Near St Louis, MO
Gerwyn

http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_roo...les/5176-Bulletin-Boards-Slander-Or-Libel.htm

Mr Justice Eady said that the comments were likely to be considered as 'fair comment' i.e. they cannot be considered as defamatory if they are posted without malice and represent the posters honest views: "I referred to common themes in the postings, such as that of 'bullying' other users and making 'threatening demands' for money. That is classic fair comment territory and, in the light of the modern authorities, it is inconceivable that a jury would find any of those who expressed such a view 'malicious' let alone all of them...Opinions may be expressed in exaggerated and strident terms; the only requirement is that they be honestly held. It is fanciful to suppose that any of these people did not believe what they were saying. Even if they reached their conclusions in haste, or on incomplete information, or irrationally, the defence would still avail them."

That article refers to this one:

http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_roo...s-Defamatory-Comments-Posted-on-a-Fansite.htm
 

boomer

Senior Member
Messages
143
Ok if I can figure out how to delete my posts I will . Could someone please tell me? Otherwise I suppose I can always leave a blank post. Thanks.
 

Marco

Grrrrrrr!
Messages
2,386
Location
Near Cognac, France
I have removed my posts, not that I believe they amount to anything more than a little fun, but I accept Martlet's cautions.

I would appreciate it if Koan edited her post referencing mine.
 
G

Gerwyn

Guest

Hi Martlet for me the key part of the judgement was that internet defamation at worst was slander not libel to have an action in slander you must demonstrate financial loss- or actual damage the burden of proof here lies with the plaintiff-I take your point about fair comment but that wasn,t my angle .slander is rarely actionable
 

Marco

Grrrrrrr!
Messages
2,386
Location
Near Cognac, France
Just to clarify for future reference as I wish to avoid exposing me, any other poster or this forum to any potential legal action.

I assume that it is fine for a person to repeatedly make public statements about a group of sick people that directly or indirectly lead to a lack of medical care, inappropriate or even harmful treatment, loss of earnings, loss of benefits, public scorn and even the distrust and disapproval of friends and family. Because these statements were not made regarding one particular individual?

That it is not OK to make a harmless joke wondering what motivates such a person because the joke refers to a particular individual?

Is it permissible to post extracts here from a document that might at some stage become the subject of a claim of defamation?

I'm just trying to understand what is and is not permissible on a public forum.
 
T

thefreeprisoner

Guest
Could the UK ME community have a case with the European Court of Human Rights?

I have been wondering about that lately. To my mind, Sophia Mirza's case is almost certainly a severe infraction of her human rights, and one that in fact led directly to her death.
The psych lobby may not listen to good science, but they certainly will listen to a court order.
Do we have any lawyers in??

Rachel xx
 
G

Gerwyn

Guest
I have been wondering about that lately. To my mind, Sophia Mirza's case is almost certainly a severe infraction of her human rights, and one that in fact led directly to her death.
The psych lobby may not listen to good science, but they certainly will listen to a court order.
Do we have any lawyers in??

Rachel xx

I,ll see if I can still use my LLB and try to find out funny since my mind has "come back" I,m much better with the science than the Law which is still foggy
 

Tammie

Senior Member
Messages
793
Location
Woodridge, IL
Well, if you really think that any of my comments on here would hurt anyone (by possibly bringing on a lawsuit) or hurt me, for that matter, feel free to get rid of them.....I am not entirely sure how to do that myself

......thoguh as I said before, I believe that his repeated published comments about us have done substantially more harm than my joking remarks on here....still I absolutely don't wish to bring any trouble on anyone (or on this site)
 

oerganix

Senior Member
Messages
611
Hi Martlet for me the key part of the judgement was that internet defamation at worst was slander not libel to have an action in slander you must demonstrate financial loss- or actual damage the burden of proof here lies with the plaintiff-I take your point about fair comment but that wasn,t my angle .slander is rarely actionable

Thank you Gerwyn for some common sense and a breath of fresh air. If Wessely wants to sue me, bring it on. Since he gets paid by the insurance industry and the drug industry and the government, I'd like to see him try to claim financial loss. I, on the other hand, have suffered total financial loss due to this illness and haven't got a peso for him to collect. Freedom is nothing left to lose.

What has been said here on this forum is no worse than what is presented weekly on Saturday Night Live. I find it very entertaining. For a guy who has said that 'doctors are disgusted with ME patients' this is nothing more than self defense.

Since this forum originates in the US, I doubt the UK would have jurisdiction anyway. BE NOT AFRAID.
 

Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
Messages
3,061
Location
UK
Min wrote:
"Prof Wessely is also allegedly a member of the supervisory board of a company named PRISMA."

Min,

It is known that Prof Wessely had been a member of PRISMA Health supervisory board, but it is understood that he has not been for some years now.

An enquiry to PRISMA Health asking then to confirm the year in which Prof Wessely ceased involvement with PRISMA Health would be useful. Did not Holmsey also post that Prof Wessely had confirmed to him by email that he was no longer involved with PRISMA Health?

These are the currently available Way Back Machine archived pages for PRISMA Health:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://prismahealth.com

Search Results for Jan 01, 1996 - Aug 20, 2009


Those requiring documentary evidence might like to keep this link on file, also from the Way Back Machine archived webpages.

The material below was supplied to me by someone who held it on file. These pages may not necessarily still be available on the Way Back Machine, but they come from a trusted source.

The URL paths suggests that they both date from 2001.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010302091247/www.prismahealth.com/ENGLISH/COMPANY/OFFICERS.HTM

Supervisory Board

RA Georg F. Thoma (President), German, is managing partner at Shearman &
Sterling, a leading international law firm. Mr. Thoma's broadly based
practice concentrates on capital market and M&A transactions. He has
been the leading lawyer in major deals such as the Daimler Benz -
Chrysler Corporation merger. Mr. Thoma is regarded as one of the top M&A
lawyers worldwide.

Prof. Dr. Michael Adams, German, is leading the institute for Law and
Economics at the Hamburg University. He is adviser to the German
Administration and Supervisory Board member of a number of well-known
German corporations.

Dr. Fons Dekkers, Dutch, international specialist on patient’s rights
and information. He is director of the Dutch Federation of Patients’ and
Consumer organisations and for Europe Vice-president of the European
Public Health Alliance. Published many articles and books over the last
20 years on rights of patient and citizens in healthcare.

Dr. Peter Jaensch, German, is CEO of GFKL Financial Services AG and
Supervisory Board member of several innovative and service companies.

Prof. Dr. Simon Wessely, British, is regarded as a world leading expert
in the field of medically unexplained illnesses. He has been publishing
extensively on chronic fatigue and is leading, among other things, the
Chronic Fatigue Unit at the King’s College in London.



http://web.archive.org/web/20010303020427/www.prismahealth.com/ENGLISH/JOBOFF~1/General.HTM

[...]


General Information

The Company


PRISMA Health is an independent team of experts specialising in the
assessment and treatment of long-term disabilities resulting from
complex chronic illnesses. We are helping in particular those clients
who have been diagnosed as having a ‘medically unexplained illness’ such
as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Chronic Pain and Fibromyalgia. Usually
these patients are unable to carry out full time employment or lead
normal lives. We provide a unique and highly effective resolution
program for this group of clients and work closely with insurance and
re-insurance companies throughout Europe.

Senior executives from the European financial and healthcare industry
founded PRISMA Health AG in 1999. The Company has its headoffice in
Essen, Germany, in the heart of one of Europe’s largest economic
regions, the ‘Ruhrgebiet’. Operating companies have been established in
the United Kingdom, Denmark, the Netherlands and Canada.

The Prisma Program

Research shows that 30-40% of people who claim long-term disability
benefits suffer from ‘medically unexplained illnesses’ Examples of the
conditions, as described by health professionals worldwide, are Chronic
Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia and Chronic Pain. These can be severely
disabling conditions for which no clear organic or orthopaedic cause can
be identified.

People who fall into this category of illness, i.e. have been ill for
many years and unable to work, will require a specific treatment program
designed to resolve their disability and hopefully help them lead a
normal life. To this end, PRISMA has developed a unique and
evidence-based treatment protocol that has been shown to resolve the
long-term disabilities of this group of clients. The program is
tailor-made for the individual, is intensive and involves a variety of
medical and psychological disciplines. It is delivered by highly skilled
staff and takes place in the client’s local environment – home and
workplace – over a five to seven month period.
 

MEKoan

Senior Member
Messages
2,630
From Prisma Health Canada's website ( http://www.prismahealth.ca/ )

casestudiestitle.jpg


Case Study # 1-Catherine Catherine was a 26 year old female, who, after 6 months of employment as a Mechanical Engineer, was diagnosed with Environmental Sensitivity and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

After many years of failed attempts at treatment, and deemed totally disabled, her file was reviewed by Prisma Health in November 2004, after some 16 years on disability.

Catherine entered the Prisma Program in February 2005. She begrudgingly participated initially and in time wholeheartedly engaged in reactivation therapy, adjustment counseling by a psychologist, career counseling, employment readiness preparation and job search assistance. She was also very active with volunteering within a local theatre group.

In November 2005, Catherine returned to full time employment and a very active lifestyle. Prisma continued to work with her until late 2006.

In December 2006, Prisma Canada received a Christmas card from Catherine thanking us for the assistance provided to her in her successful return to work, and in Catherine’s words “for giving me my life back”….


[video=youtube;X9aENGodu5A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9aENGodu5A[/video]
 

Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
Messages
3,061
Location
UK