Significant improvement on MitoQ

[me/cfs 27931]

Took 10mg MitoQ for 6 months, followed by 20mg for 3 months. Didn't notice any improvements, or any effects at all.

 

[niall]

Yeah, I get Life Extension magazines, seemed like a good supplement to try, just haven't had the cash. Hopefully the near future!

GG

Dr. Klimas told once that she does not recommend any supplements unless she has reviewed the research regarding their efficacy. I can only tell you that I have noticed a difference and that I have not had that happy experience since I was on Ampligen in 2012. Because of my circumstances here at home, I have to push myself far too hard on a regular basis and as a consequence, was almost always feeling bad. Life was hell as so many members on this forum know so well. I still have bad days but now I can get four days in a row of feeling well enough to function. When the bad days come, as they inevitably do, they are not as severe and I recover more quickly.
I went to the Life Extension store in Ft. Lauderdale and purchased the Mitochondrial Basics bottle for $33. I am taking two capsules a day. One as soon as I get up and the other around 11am. I will say that my natural killer cell level and activity were within normal limits before I started the mitochondrial supplement. I have been taking the Isoprinosine for two years for that purpose. I only take one tablet three times a day with weekends off. Dr. Rey at Nova does not want me to take a higher dose at this time. She said something about my inflammation markers being high.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I went to the Life Extension store in Ft. Lauderdale and purchased the Mitochondrial Basics bottle for $33.

How many capsules are in the bottle?

 

[niall]

How many capsules are in the bottle?

Thirty.

 

[niall]

Dr. Klimas told once that she does not recommend any supplements unless she has reviewed the research regarding their efficacy. I can only tell you that I have noticed a difference and that I have not had that happy experience since I was on Ampligen in 2012. Because of my circumstances here at home, I have to push myself far too hard on a regular basis and as a consequence, was almost always feeling bad. Life was hell as so many members on this forum know so well. I still have bad days but now I can get four days in a row of feeling well enough to function. When the bad days come, as they inevitably do, they are not as severe and I recover more quickly.
I went to the Life Extension store in Ft. Lauderdale and purchased the Mitochondrial Basics bottle for $33. I am taking two capsules a day. One as soon as I get up and the other around 11am. I will say that my natural killer cell level and activity were within normal limits before I started the mitochondrial supplement. I have been taking the Isoprinosine for two years for that purpose. I only take one tablet three times a day with weekends off. Dr. Rey at Nova does not want me to take a higher dose at this time. She said something about my inflammation markers being high.

I should also mention that Dr. Klimas said that I have four pathways of double mutations which indicate that I do not metabolize food containing folic acid. She said that I should not take enriched B vitamins and that I should take methyl folate 400mcgs daily. She told me to stop the K-Pax for this reason. I didn't find any improvement while on it for three months. I found previous lab tests where my vitamin B 12 was above 2000 and my serum folate above 24. I wasn't taking any B 12 supplements at the time but was taking cereal with it every morning. The reason this may be important is that there have been research papers written about unmetabolized folic acid in the bood which is associated with reduced natural killer cell cytotoxicity in post menopausal women ( The Journal of Nutrition--January 2006)

 

[niall]

Just FYI, the MitoQ lost its positive effect on me, after about 2 weeks. I'm trying to work out why that was.

One possibility is that prior to starting MitoQ I was injecting 100ng/week gc-maf, though I had stopped that about 2 weeks prior to starting the MitoQ. It's possible MitoQ only works well in me when combined with gc-maf. With gcmaf.eu now banned from distributing to the UK, I can't test this idea.

I recently tried a 3 week break, and can report I did feel some positive increase in energy when I had my first dose again, although it was not as strong as what I reported in the beginning of this thread.

I must report that the Mito Basics with PQQ has stopped working for me. I know the reason is because I was taking care of a terminally ill family member during September and October. It was very stressful for me as he required care both day and night. Then there was the funeral and friends and family from near and far coming to pay their respects. I have been bad again with symptoms for about a month. I did not stop the Mito PQQ during any of this time but after reading your post I think I will stop it for two weeks and see if there is any improvement when I begin it again. I called Life Extension and they suggested trying their Rybogen formula too. I am wondering if you have any new input.

 

[cigana]

I must report that the Mito Basics with PQQ has stopped working for me. I know the reason is because I was taking care of a terminally ill family member during September and October. It was very stressful for me as he required care both day and night. Then there was the funeral and friends and family from near and far coming to pay their respects. I have been bad again with symptoms for about a month. I did not stop the Mito PQQ during any of this time but after reading your post I think I will stop it for two weeks and see if there is any improvement when I begin it again. I called Life Extension and they suggested trying their Rybogen formula too. I am wondering if you have any new input.

Afraid I don't have anything new to add, I stopped taking MitoQ after it stopped working. Good luck with your experiment.

 

[cigana]

Update: I took MitoQ today for the first time in about 6 months, and have a very definite big improvement in energy. So it seems once the effect dies off, it doesn't die off forever. Based on what I've learned, I might try dosing once a week.

 

[Eastman]

...I might try dosing once a week.

How long does the effect of a single dose last?

 

[cigana]

How long does the effect of a single dose last?

About 1 day, maybe 2.

 

[Eastman]

About 1 day, maybe 2.

Thanks, even if the answer is disappointing.

I'm wondering if loading it over several days before stopping would help sustain the effect better.

 

[cigana]

Thanks, even if the answer is disappointing.

I'm wondering if loading it over several days before stopping would help sustain the effect better.

Yeah, it's so hard to tell. I'm really worried if I load too much it might lose its effect, and I'll have to wait another 6 months before trying again.

 

[keenly]

Study
http://www.jbc.org/content/281/52/39766.long
'In summary, our data suggest the following. Superoxide production at complex I in BAE mitochondria results from reverse electron transport and, to a lesser extent, by forward transport. Superoxide is also generated at the Q cycle in complex III. mitoQ acts in complex I to block ROS generated by reverse transport but markedly enhance superoxide production derived from forward electron transport. This likely results from action at a rotenone-sensitive Q binding site and, possibly, one or more other upstream sites. Moreover, our data show that mitoQ has persistent effects evident in mitochondria isolated from cells after antecedent exposure in culture suggesting that the targeted antioxidant is taken up and maintained in mitochondria for at least 24 h.'

 

[NotThisGuy]

Anyone here with low blood pressure who took MitoQ?
I took ubichinone and it felt like a vortex arround my heart that sucks out all energy of it.
Like to know if this was because it wasn't reduced and I would do better on MitoQ.

 

[ahmo]

@NotThisGuy I have low BP, POTS-lite. I took nearly 2 bottles MitoQ. First I found I could only take it every other day, can't remember the symptoms. Eventually my body said no thanks. I now take Ubiquinol, only 50 mg every other day. This seems to be all my body wants.

 

[Tunguska]

Not so long ago I tried out the spin trap antioxidant tempol, which is a potent SOD2 memetic, but did not notice much benefit from it. However, I think I may try MitoQ.

Is tempol the same substance as MitoTEMPO? http://focusbiomolecules.com/mito-tempo-mitochondria-targeted-antioxidant/ Or are the names screwing with me?

This study on skin aging was posted on another forum and they found that MitoQ was useless for that purpose while methylene blue and something called Mito-TEMPO (mTEM) were effective: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-02419-3

MB is a better and safer ROS scavenger than NAC, MitoQ, and mTEM
In our study, we compared MB with three other ROS scavengers, including a widely used general antioxidant NAC, and two mitochondrial-specific antioxidants, MitoQ, and mTEM, and found that MB was the most effective, mTEM was the next best at reducing mitochondrial ROS and promoting cell proliferation (Fig. 1). To our surprise, we observed no beneficial effects of NAC treatment and even adverse effects of MitoQ (Fig. 1). The discrepancy of our results with some previous reports might be due to the much longer-term treatments of NAC or MitoQ in this study than previous experiments11, 21, 33. As shown previously9, 10, 13, 14 and in Fig. 4, MB has been used in cells and animals for long-term experiments with little toxicity or irritation. Therefore, we suggest that MB is a much safer and more effective antioxidant than NAC, MitoQ, and mTEM for long-term application on skin fibroblasts.

I doubt this is very useful but I'm curious what it is.

 

[NotThisGuy]

@NotThisGuy I have low BP, POTS-lite. I took nearly 2 bottles MitoQ. First I found I could only take it every other day, can't remember the symptoms. Eventually my body said no thanks. I now take Ubiquinol, only 50 mg every other day. This seems to be all my body wants.

So you didn't notice any difference regarding blood pressure and MitoQ?
Or did you develop low BP because of MitoQ?

 

[cigana]

Update:

I'm now fairly certain that my improvement on MitoQ was related to simultaneously being on GC-MAF.

I have now taken MitoQ and GC-MAF together, and separately. I notice no effect when taken separately. Every time I take them together, there is a definite boost in energy and reduction in fatigue. I've done this about 6 times now so am certain of the effect.

The type of GC-MAF seems to be important, I'm currently using the Glycoplus cream, which doesn't seem to be as potent as the original injectable form from gcmaf.eu.

 

[rodgergrummidge]

Taking 2x 5mg MitoQ per day has significantly decreased my fatigue levels. The effect occured within a few hours of taking my first dose.

MitoQ is a form of ubiquinone specifically adapted to enter the mitochondria (with a factor 800 increase in absorption). Ubquinone is a form of CoQ10..

@cigana @Hip @Rand56 @Sherpa @NotThisGuy and others either using MitoQ or contemplating using it, I would be super super cautious. It is not simply a supplement, but a drug variant of CoQ10 that is designed to rapidly accumulate in the mitochondria and has completely different pharmacology to the CoQ10 naturally found in out mitochondria. It is a drug that has not yet been FDA approved and is still being assessed in clinical trials.

While the companies that sell MitoQ over the internet vigorously spruik its anti-oxidant activities, there is evidence that it also have pro-oxidant activities in the mitochondria where it can increase superoxide levels in the mitochondria and cause mitochondrial depolarization (which blocks ATP synthesis and can lead to cell death)(
(Armstrong, 2008; Camello-Almaraz et al., 2006; Cochemé et al., 2007; Doughan and Dikalov, 2007; James et al., 2005a; O’Malley et al., 2006; Reddy, 2006; Tauskela, 2007)

Its not clear under what circumstances MitoQ therapy may assist mitochondrial function or impair mitochondrial function. However it is known that i) because it can accumulate to high concentrations in the mitochondria and ii) that it can potentially function as a high affinity antagonist to endogenous CoQ10, it has the potential to cause mitochondrial damage through reduced mitochondrial ATP production, increased superoxide and mitochondrial depolarization.

Companies that are selling MitoQ are not simply selling a supplement, they are selling a non-FDA-approved drug which, in my opinion, is unethical. Note that the companies that are selling MitoQ over the internet are not FDA or TGA regulated (like the ones who are conducting the MitoQ clinical trials) and the chemistry, purity and toxicity of the MitoQ drug they are selling you cannot be independently verified.

Gratifyingly though, it would seem from the posts in this thread that no-one has encountered any obvious toxicities from unregulated MitoQ purchased from such companies. But I would be somewhat concerned about its long-term effects given the essential role that mitochondria play in all aspects of organ and tissue function.

On a positive note however, now that CoQ10H2 (ubiquinol), the reduced form of CoQ10, is available in a stable form from a number of (TGA and FDA-reg) companies, the possibility that ubiquinol may help in some cases of CFS can be tested without having to take risks with MitoQ. While Ubiquinol is more expensive, it may prove more effective as suggested in a number studies outlined in J Inherit Metab Dis (2012) 35:679–687, "Update on clinical aspects and treatment of selected vitamin-responsive disorders II (riboflavin and CoQ10) Ubiquinone" by Rita Horvath.

cheers

Rodger

 

[Hip]

It is not simply a supplement, but a drug variant of CoQ10 that is designed to rapidly accumulate in the mitochondria and has completely different pharmacology to the CoQ10 naturally found in out mitochondria.

As I understand it, MitoQ concentrates in the mitochondria a levels 10 times higher than regular Q10. So possibly the same benefits might be obtained from taking 10 times the dose of ordinary Q10. And in terms of the benefits of such high doses: one ME/CFS patient has found that very high dose Q10 (in the range of 800 mg to 2400 mg daily) almost completely mitigated their PEM.

For other supplements that patients have found mitigate PEM, see this post.

Cheap sources of Q10 are found on AliExpress.com, typically around $200 for 500 grams of Q10 98% powder, or $60 for 100 grams. Purebulk.com also sell bulk Q10 powder at good prices.