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Took 10mg MitoQ for 6 months, followed by 20mg for 3 months. Didn't notice any improvements, or any effects at all.
Significant improvement on MitoQ
- Thread starter cigana
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Dr. Klimas told once that she does not recommend any supplements unless she has reviewed the research regarding their efficacy. I can only tell you that I have noticed a difference and that I have not had that happy experience since I was on Ampligen in 2012. Because of my circumstances here at home, I have to push myself far too hard on a regular basis and as a consequence, was almost always feeling bad. Life was hell as so many members on this forum know so well. I still have bad days but now I can get four days in a row of feeling well enough to function. When the bad days come, as they inevitably do, they are not as severe and I recover more quickly.
I went to the Life Extension store in Ft. Lauderdale and purchased the Mitochondrial Basics bottle for $33. I am taking two capsules a day. One as soon as I get up and the other around 11am. I will say that my natural killer cell level and activity were within normal limits before I started the mitochondrial supplement. I have been taking the Isoprinosine for two years for that purpose. I only take one tablet three times a day with weekends off. Dr. Rey at Nova does not want me to take a higher dose at this time. She said something about my inflammation markers being high.
I went to the Life Extension store in Ft. Lauderdale and purchased the Mitochondrial Basics bottle for $33. I am taking two capsules a day. One as soon as I get up and the other around 11am. I will say that my natural killer cell level and activity were within normal limits before I started the mitochondrial supplement. I have been taking the Isoprinosine for two years for that purpose. I only take one tablet three times a day with weekends off. Dr. Rey at Nova does not want me to take a higher dose at this time. She said something about my inflammation markers being high.
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How many capsules are in the bottle?
I should also mention that Dr. Klimas said that I have four pathways of double mutations which indicate that I do not metabolize food containing folic acid. She said that I should not take enriched B vitamins and that I should take methyl folate 400mcgs daily. She told me to stop the K-Pax for this reason. I didn't find any improvement while on it for three months. I found previous lab tests where my vitamin B 12 was above 2000 and my serum folate above 24. I wasn't taking any B 12 supplements at the time but was taking cereal with it every morning. The reason this may be important is that there have been research papers written about unmetabolized folic acid in the bood which is associated with reduced natural killer cell cytotoxicity in post menopausal women ( The Journal of Nutrition--January 2006)
I must report that the Mito Basics with PQQ has stopped working for me. I know the reason is because I was taking care of a terminally ill family member during September and October. It was very stressful for me as he required care both day and night. Then there was the funeral and friends and family from near and far coming to pay their respects. I have been bad again with symptoms for about a month. I did not stop the Mito PQQ during any of this time but after reading your post I think I will stop it for two weeks and see if there is any improvement when I begin it again. I called Life Extension and they suggested trying their Rybogen formula too. I am wondering if you have any new input.
Update: I took MitoQ today for the first time in about 6 months, and have a very definite big improvement in energy. So it seems once the effect dies off, it doesn't die off forever. Based on what I've learned, I might try dosing once a week.
Study
http://www.jbc.org/content/281/52/39766.long
'In summary, our data suggest the following. Superoxide production at complex I in BAE mitochondria results from reverse electron transport and, to a lesser extent, by forward transport. Superoxide is also generated at the Q cycle in complex III. mitoQ acts in complex I to block ROS generated by reverse transport but markedly enhance superoxide production derived from forward electron transport. This likely results from action at a rotenone-sensitive Q binding site and, possibly, one or more other upstream sites. Moreover, our data show that mitoQ has persistent effects evident in mitochondria isolated from cells after antecedent exposure in culture suggesting that the targeted antioxidant is taken up and maintained in mitochondria for at least 24 h.'
http://www.jbc.org/content/281/52/39766.long
'In summary, our data suggest the following. Superoxide production at complex I in BAE mitochondria results from reverse electron transport and, to a lesser extent, by forward transport. Superoxide is also generated at the Q cycle in complex III. mitoQ acts in complex I to block ROS generated by reverse transport but markedly enhance superoxide production derived from forward electron transport. This likely results from action at a rotenone-sensitive Q binding site and, possibly, one or more other upstream sites. Moreover, our data show that mitoQ has persistent effects evident in mitochondria isolated from cells after antecedent exposure in culture suggesting that the targeted antioxidant is taken up and maintained in mitochondria for at least 24 h.'
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Anyone here with low blood pressure who took MitoQ?
I took ubichinone and it felt like a vortex arround my heart that sucks out all energy of it.
Like to know if this was because it wasn't reduced and I would do better on MitoQ.
I took ubichinone and it felt like a vortex arround my heart that sucks out all energy of it.
Like to know if this was because it wasn't reduced and I would do better on MitoQ.
@NotThisGuy I have low BP, POTS-lite. I took nearly 2 bottles MitoQ. First I found I could only take it every other day, can't remember the symptoms. Eventually my body said no thanks. I now take Ubiquinol, only 50 mg every other day. This seems to be all my body wants.
Is tempol the same substance as MitoTEMPO? http://focusbiomolecules.com/mito-tempo-mitochondria-targeted-antioxidant/ Or are the names screwing with me?
This study on skin aging was posted on another forum and they found that MitoQ was useless for that purpose while methylene blue and something called Mito-TEMPO (mTEM) were effective: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-02419-3
I doubt this is very useful but I'm curious what it is.
This study on skin aging was posted on another forum and they found that MitoQ was useless for that purpose while methylene blue and something called Mito-TEMPO (mTEM) were effective: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-02419-3
I doubt this is very useful but I'm curious what it is.
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So you didn't notice any difference regarding blood pressure and MitoQ?
Or did you develop low BP because of MitoQ?
Or did you develop low BP because of MitoQ?
Update:
I'm now fairly certain that my improvement on MitoQ was related to simultaneously being on GC-MAF.
I have now taken MitoQ and GC-MAF together, and separately. I notice no effect when taken separately. Every time I take them together, there is a definite boost in energy and reduction in fatigue. I've done this about 6 times now so am certain of the effect.
The type of GC-MAF seems to be important, I'm currently using the Glycoplus cream, which doesn't seem to be as potent as the original injectable form from gcmaf.eu.
I'm now fairly certain that my improvement on MitoQ was related to simultaneously being on GC-MAF.
I have now taken MitoQ and GC-MAF together, and separately. I notice no effect when taken separately. Every time I take them together, there is a definite boost in energy and reduction in fatigue. I've done this about 6 times now so am certain of the effect.
The type of GC-MAF seems to be important, I'm currently using the Glycoplus cream, which doesn't seem to be as potent as the original injectable form from gcmaf.eu.
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@cigana @Hip @Rand56 @Sherpa @NotThisGuy and others either using MitoQ or contemplating using it, I would be super super cautious. It is not simply a supplement, but a drug variant of CoQ10 that is designed to rapidly accumulate in the mitochondria and has completely different pharmacology to the CoQ10 naturally found in out mitochondria. It is a drug that has not yet been FDA approved and is still being assessed in clinical trials.
While the companies that sell MitoQ over the internet vigorously spruik its anti-oxidant activities, there is evidence that it also have pro-oxidant activities in the mitochondria where it can increase superoxide levels in the mitochondria and cause mitochondrial depolarization (which blocks ATP synthesis and can lead to cell death)(
(Armstrong, 2008; Camello-Almaraz et al., 2006; Cochemé et al., 2007; Doughan and Dikalov, 2007; James et al., 2005a; O’Malley et al., 2006; Reddy, 2006; Tauskela, 2007)
Its not clear under what circumstances MitoQ therapy may assist mitochondrial function or impair mitochondrial function. However it is known that i) because it can accumulate to high concentrations in the mitochondria and ii) that it can potentially function as a high affinity antagonist to endogenous CoQ10, it has the potential to cause mitochondrial damage through reduced mitochondrial ATP production, increased superoxide and mitochondrial depolarization.
Companies that are selling MitoQ are not simply selling a supplement, they are selling a non-FDA-approved drug which, in my opinion, is unethical. Note that the companies that are selling MitoQ over the internet are not FDA or TGA regulated (like the ones who are conducting the MitoQ clinical trials) and the chemistry, purity and toxicity of the MitoQ drug they are selling you cannot be independently verified.
Gratifyingly though, it would seem from the posts in this thread that no-one has encountered any obvious toxicities from unregulated MitoQ purchased from such companies. But I would be somewhat concerned about its long-term effects given the essential role that mitochondria play in all aspects of organ and tissue function.
On a positive note however, now that CoQ10H2 (ubiquinol), the reduced form of CoQ10, is available in a stable form from a number of (TGA and FDA-reg) companies, the possibility that ubiquinol may help in some cases of CFS can be tested without having to take risks with MitoQ. While Ubiquinol is more expensive, it may prove more effective as suggested in a number studies outlined in J Inherit Metab Dis (2012) 35:679–687, "Update on clinical aspects and treatment of selected vitamin-responsive disorders II (riboflavin and CoQ10) Ubiquinone" by Rita Horvath.
cheers
Rodger
While the companies that sell MitoQ over the internet vigorously spruik its anti-oxidant activities, there is evidence that it also have pro-oxidant activities in the mitochondria where it can increase superoxide levels in the mitochondria and cause mitochondrial depolarization (which blocks ATP synthesis and can lead to cell death)(
(Armstrong, 2008; Camello-Almaraz et al., 2006; Cochemé et al., 2007; Doughan and Dikalov, 2007; James et al., 2005a; O’Malley et al., 2006; Reddy, 2006; Tauskela, 2007)
Its not clear under what circumstances MitoQ therapy may assist mitochondrial function or impair mitochondrial function. However it is known that i) because it can accumulate to high concentrations in the mitochondria and ii) that it can potentially function as a high affinity antagonist to endogenous CoQ10, it has the potential to cause mitochondrial damage through reduced mitochondrial ATP production, increased superoxide and mitochondrial depolarization.
Companies that are selling MitoQ are not simply selling a supplement, they are selling a non-FDA-approved drug which, in my opinion, is unethical. Note that the companies that are selling MitoQ over the internet are not FDA or TGA regulated (like the ones who are conducting the MitoQ clinical trials) and the chemistry, purity and toxicity of the MitoQ drug they are selling you cannot be independently verified.
Gratifyingly though, it would seem from the posts in this thread that no-one has encountered any obvious toxicities from unregulated MitoQ purchased from such companies. But I would be somewhat concerned about its long-term effects given the essential role that mitochondria play in all aspects of organ and tissue function.
On a positive note however, now that CoQ10H2 (ubiquinol), the reduced form of CoQ10, is available in a stable form from a number of (TGA and FDA-reg) companies, the possibility that ubiquinol may help in some cases of CFS can be tested without having to take risks with MitoQ. While Ubiquinol is more expensive, it may prove more effective as suggested in a number studies outlined in J Inherit Metab Dis (2012) 35:679–687, "Update on clinical aspects and treatment of selected vitamin-responsive disorders II (riboflavin and CoQ10) Ubiquinone" by Rita Horvath.
cheers
Rodger
As I understand it, MitoQ concentrates in the mitochondria a levels 10 times higher than regular Q10. So possibly the same benefits might be obtained from taking 10 times the dose of ordinary Q10. And in terms of the benefits of such high doses: one ME/CFS patient has found that very high dose Q10 (in the range of 800 mg to 2400 mg daily) almost completely mitigated their PEM.
For other supplements that patients have found mitigate PEM, see this post.
Cheap sources of Q10 are found on AliExpress.com, typically around $200 for 500 grams of Q10 98% powder, or $60 for 100 grams. Purebulk.com also sell bulk Q10 powder at good prices.
For other supplements that patients have found mitigate PEM, see this post.
Cheap sources of Q10 are found on AliExpress.com, typically around $200 for 500 grams of Q10 98% powder, or $60 for 100 grams. Purebulk.com also sell bulk Q10 powder at good prices.