SIBO - How to clear small intestine/fix motility?

[Tiffyshea]

I don't know my numbers now as the last time I did the breath test they did a glucose test (not sure if the numbers are different) and all it says on the test is negative. The lactulose breath test is the one where anything over 20ppm is a problem, and anything over 30ppm is a severe SIBO infection... the last one I took failed (they're sometimes wrong), and I was certain the SIBO was gone, as I felt better.

The energy problems didn't come on until the SIBO infection was cured... as I was on the elemental diet, that's when I started getting fatigue really bad, but I thought it was just the diet. It took months before I started really thinking something was wrong with my energy as it just wasn't getting better.

So while everyone else seems to have a viral onset to their ME, I had SIBO as my onset. It's weird.

And yeah, it was really hard to treat it. It took me 2 years.

 

[overtheedge]

I've heard that glucose tests can only find overgrowth in the first part of the small intestines since glucose is absorbed so quickly, so if you have overgrowth further down it will be missed

 

[Bergkamp]

Hey @Tiffyshea , I know your post is quite a while ago but I hope you still read this.

I read your posts on the ED while having ME/CFS with a lot of interest. I have been having SIBO for about a year and a half (and of course ME/CFS for about 4 years) and like you I tried almost everything (antibiotics, herbals, prokinetics etc). I am know thinking about doing the ED and my therapist wants me to do it. However I’m afraid it will significantly worsen my ME since it’s a pretty intense regimen and can cause a bad die-off reaction etc. I have also lost a lot of weight already so another 2 weeks of eating very little might be tough on me.

What was not entirely clear to me from your post is if you finally concluded that the crash you experienced was from the ED or not? Do you think it played a role at all? That information would be really helpful for me!

 

[Wayne]

So my question is, what suggestions would people make based on this?

@canyouhearmeaya -- I read a testimonial once by a woman who started doing regular HBOT sessions, and she said her rather severe gastroparesis cleared up almost immediately. She said she had needed several digestive enzymes throughout her normal day, and after 3 days of HBOT, she no longer needed them.

I attribute my own issues with motility to my vagus nerve becoming seriously impinged following a severe whiplash as a teenager. I was able to get some relief following some upper cervical work, particularly a procedure called AtlasPROfilax. I noticed immediately afterward that I had much more nerve energy going through my GI tract, which is supplied by the vagus nerve.

 

[cogent_thought]

Just to contribute here, I tested positive for SIBO with elevated Methane & hydrogen at baseline.

A course of rifaxamin & metronidazole did not make a lasting impact, however my brain fog cleared whilst on the treatment (metronidazole espescially). Felt some mental side effects which I bounced back from.

I've recently come across the d lactate hypothesis which matches my symptoms. Since cutting out carbs, my daily brain fog and sleepiness has stopped for the first time in over a decade! The diet is almost unsustainable though and I don't want to be in ketosis forever so. modifying the microbiome to reduce d lactate producers seems like the best path.

I'm going to create a new thread to chart my progress (if there is any) with diet, probiotics, antibiotics to try and secure a longer lasting remission as I've seen at least one other user say they have with a similar diagnosis. Attempting to have d lactate measured this week by doctors who probably won't want to.

 

[Remissionqueen]

I don't know my numbers now as the last time I did the breath test they did a glucose test (not sure if the numbers are different) and all it says on the test is negative. The lactulose breath test is the one where anything over 20ppm is a problem, and anything over 30ppm is a severe SIBO infection... the last one I took failed (they're sometimes wrong), and I was certain the SIBO was gone, as I felt better.

The energy problems didn't come on until the SIBO infection was cured... as I was on the elemental diet, that's when I started getting fatigue really bad, but I thought it was just the diet. It took months before I started really thinking something was wrong with my energy as it just wasn't getting better.

So while everyone else seems to have a viral onset to their ME, I had SIBO as my onset. It's weird.

And yeah, it was really hard to treat it. It took me 2 years.

So the elemental diet gave you cfs ?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I tested positive for SIBO

I wasn't able to read through all of this.

I seem to have either cured or massively reduced my SIBO. I"ve never been tested.

I ordered a supplement with 40% ellagic acid form Pomegranate. I took a capsule of that, a few times.

I experience almost no bloating any longer. Which is wind in Chinese medicine and other wind symptoms I personally had, vanished as well. I mean literally VANISHED.

I've had my stomach shut down causing acute gastroperesis flu (high fever). That has not happened in a long time also, Praise the Lord. It's the worst thing that happens to me. Takes weeks to recover back to a lousier baseline state.

SIBO: I can feel fluttering in the pit of my stomach, which seems associated with something acting up. I can literally feel it, that there is alot of busy activity way high up but right beneath my stomach and NOT COLON.

I take few if any probiotics on the advice of my chinese herbalist.

 

[Wayne]

I ordered a supplement with 40% ellagic acid form Pomegranate. I took a capsule of that, a few times.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this. What product, why you decided to order it, etc. -- Thanks!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

why you decided to order it, etc. -- Thanks!

This is a bit of a Story:

My husband had his own PHD in supplements. Basically, I was in one corner of the room, taking a few vitamins and some chinese herbal tea.

But my husband? He's got special suppliers in Florida. He would get shipment upon shipment of "supplements". I'd describe it as: over the top. And pretty expensive. So he'd order things from odd places. By the case. And hide it from me, because of "the expensive" part. he was probably taking about 30 supplements, 3 X a day. Why bother with food?

He had been taking something called GH3 for years. (I note this, because it was to extend his longevity, which, unfortunately, is now very different due to the stroke those vitamins failed to prevent). (He may have even caused it he took so many strange things).

- so one day I answered my husbands cell phone (which I normally wouldn't be answering) and its Florida, and this vitamin salesman. I got trapped on the phone. He's trying to sell me something with alot of antioxidants.

I was doing alot of ACAI. (shipped in from Brazil) and I feel guilty about that. And this Florida salesmen said their product included ACAI that is grown in Florida. So I decided I"d agree to buy a bottle. And he threw in a bottle of This Other Stuff (STEM CELL COMPLETE).

He made a big deal about Not Being a Scam. So I decided he WAS a Scam and regretted answering that phone call. Told myself to never again buy anything from The Random Salesperson on the telephone.

But then the vitamins arrived, and I calmed back down.

I took the Berry Beneficial, but never took the other stuff until I oddly decided to try it one day.

And three days later my digestive system was nearly transformed. And all this wind pouring out of the right side of my neck, ceased. That wind has never come back.

The Florida salesman still calls me. I sort of try to avoid him, but he gives me a discount and I ordered several more bottles. I don't consume it at the rate Vitamin Companies would prefer.

THE Pill which is amazing:

STEM CELL COMPLETE - the brand is Healthy Blend

It says its supports stem cell function and may, with use, promote joint flexibility and mobility.
I don't have many joint issues so I can' t speak to effectiveness there.

This product contains:
D3
1400 mgs of Proprietary blend of fermented Lactobacillus., the Pomegranate extract, and Beta GLUCAN.

___
The product I bought is called Berry Beneficial and has the Acai in it. I take that most every day.
And I'm surprised I can still get this ACAI at a store here. Shipped in Frozen. I'm still feeling guilty.

 

[Hip]

I experience almost no bloating any longer.

That perhaps suggests methane SIBO, as this study found that ellagic acid reduces methane production from archaea in the gut of ruminant animals.

A family member who I suspect has methane SIBO found ellagic acid 100 mg daily greatly reduced bloating. Methane SIBO often involves constipation, whereas hydrogen SIBO usually involves diarrhoea.

To full eliminate methane SIBO by herbal means, people use allicin, neem and oregano oil taken for around a month. Allicin appears to be the key supplement which kills the archaea (methane SIBO is caused by archaea rather than bacteria). But very high doses of allicin are used: the Dr Siebecker protocol uses 2700 mg of allicin daily for methane SIBO, in divided doses.

SIBO can greatly increase the fatigue and brain fog of ME/CFS.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Methane SIBO often involves constipation, whereas hydrogen SIBO usually involves diarrhoea.

fascinating, thanks for this info. Will read about that.

I tend to have too rapid transit in the colon, but I would not exactly call it diarrhea except for when digestion goes south.

The ellagic acid pill seems to have slowed it down to some degree. It's also more organized. The colon is supposed to be organizing things, and often isn't. Colon, the organ of convenience. Mine is rarely convenient.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

100 mg daily

this supplement is 40% of 1400 mg. (perhaps) That sounds rather potent compared to 100 mg.

I might take one of these every two weeks or so, with a magnesium. I don't seem to need it every day, nor does my system seem to revert back quickly. That has amazed me.

And all the wind in my neck stopped. WOW, I say.

What is causing SIBO to erupt in the first place>?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

And three days later my digestive system was nearly transformed.

wanted to mention that I also eat very well cooked black beans, most every day with breakfast. This may be increasing my dose of butyrate. That may also be contributing to something improving digestion.

 

[pamojja]

this supplement is 40% of 1400 mg. (perhaps) That sounds rather potent compared to 100 mg.

This product contains:
D3
1400 mgs of Proprietary blend of fermented Lactobacillus., the Pomegranate extract, and Beta GLUCAN.

Looked it up. I also seem to contain:

fermented blends of astragalus root, goji berry, and green tea

I usually avoid proprietary blend. Foremost, because it hides how much of which ingredient it contains, and therefore leaves the consumer in the blind about any dose-response (to which ingredient?).

But secondary, because usually expensive ingredients are in tiny amounts, cheap make the bulk. Still making it look of value, while most often it's sold overpriced.

In this case, even if it didn't contain powders of astragalus root, goji and tea (which are usually taken in the more potent extracted form, from about 400 mg upward each, to get good results - and thereby wouldn't leave any space for other ingredient), the certain beta glucan and fermented lactubacillus could leave space for the usual 500 mg of Pomegranate extract only. Or 200 mg of ellagic acid.

Maybe..? - If you're lucky, if that even is the effective ingredient? And which itself could be got elsewhere very cheaply to verify.

By the way, 180 mg/d of ellagic acid taken for a year didn't decrease my diarrhea (usually 3 times, before I end breakfast, after which it calms down).

This may be increasing my dose of butyrate.

Maybe? In my case, ubiome test showed 30% higher butyrate producers.