Should I take antidepressants? Please give your opinion

[Dreambirdie]

As for mice going swimming... Not sure if he's Swiss, but he sure is cute!

 

[leaves]

hmmm somehow I can't find mice cute these days...
must has someting to do with the mlv and the mice invasion in my kitchen..

 

[Dreambirdie]

hmmm somehow I cand find mice cute these days...
must has someting to do with the mlv and the mice invasion in my kitchen..

Can we blame the mice for the mlv's? Or is human lab error...? I don't know.

I VOTE cute anyway.
Though, if they were invading my kitchen, then it would be

 

[Sushi]

Hi Sushi, I could not find prices for these neurotransmitters tests. Do you know, where should I look?

Hi Lala,

They don't seem to list the price on their website and many labs charge differing amounts according to who your doctor is and won't give this info to patients. I see your location is Europe which complicates the sending of specimens and adds to to cost cause they would have to be FedExed.

Labs will usually tell patients if there are doctors in your area that have accounts with them. That is the best I can suggest. A vague memory puts the test at about $150, but that was a few years ago.

Sorry I can't help more--maybe someone else has information.
Sushi

 

[leela]

Athene,

I admit to having just skimmed the vast reservoir of fine replies you have had here--so forgive me if I repeat when I simply wish to augment or reiterate...The intense course of healing you did is amazing--and exhausting! Think of how your whole being had to rally to launch that defense.

Yes, now you must gently detox the toxins released in the Great Battle, and slowly rebuild your strength with the appropriate nutrients, nourishing foods, rest, etc. Try to find a careful balance between the detox and the re-building, as your system has been through a lot. The key to detox here is gentle. The key to rebuilding is slow.

A quality probiotic is of course entirely useful (hopefully you were taking them throughout the course of antibiotics?) Find a couple that suit you and rotate them.

Easy-to-digest, warming foods (lots of fresh soup!) that include root vegetables and winter squashes, cooked greens instead of too much raw, miso (also a probiotic if not boiled) are all good, and it is best to avoid sugar at all costs. You probably know all this, but I find I need to be reminded of things when I'm down for the count--I forget even the most basic things that make me feel better.

A good resource for seeing which neurotransmitters you might need (in lieu of the pharmacuetical antidepressants) to lift your exhaustion, has a really stupid title "The Mood Cure" which is also a website, and contains a questionnaire that can help you decide what you might need and how to dose it. The book might be at your library and is cheap used. Despite its silly name and ugly cover, there is a lot of really useful info in the book on this subject.

For what it's worth, though, IMO , your exhaustion is totally explainable from a physical perspective, and your body just needs time to rest after its prolonged heroic efforts.

 

[lancelot]

there are tons of natural antidepressants that are safe and even nutritious. AD's should never be used except as a LAST resort in the most serious, untreatable or life threatening cases of primary depression. SSRI's will work to deplete your serotonin stores in the long term, cause serotonin recepter/axonal degeneration and eventually make your secondary depression due to CFS/ME into a permanent primary depression.

natural antidepressants: fish oil, vit d, 5-htp(timed release), SAM-e, tryptophan rich foods, cocoa, green tea/matcha tea, whole foods/raw diet, sex, fun hobby, laughter/comedy, aerobic exercise(if possible), volunteering( if possible)

Always try natural antidepressants first. Remember, your depression is only secondary to your primary physical disease of CFS/ME(any severely disabling or life threatening physical disease). Your depression is not a disease but just a symptom. Don't turn that symptom into a disease by using dangerous chemicals that have no blood tests to justify its use. SSRI~MDMA/Ecstacy=EVIL

 

[Dreambirdie]

Great advice Leela, especially the part about:

The key to detox here is gentle. The key to rebuilding is slow.

And I love your boldly honest description of The Mood Cure...

A good resource for seeing which neurotransmitters you might need (in lieu of the pharmacuetical antidepressants) to lift your exhaustion, has a really stupid title "The Mood Cure" which is also a website, and contains a questionnaire that can help you decide what you might need and how to dose it. The book might be at your library and is cheap used. Despite its silly name and ugly cover, there is a lot of really useful info in the book on this subject.

You are definitely a woman after my own heart. :Sign giggle::Sign Good one:

 

[L'engle]

Thank you so much, everyone, for your really excellent info and advice.

I am inclining towards trying a big detox (saunas etc) and some careful experimentation with supplements or herbals.
I know I should try to get that serotonin test, but I just cannot face yet another medical investigation right now!

I think Lala and others made the very good point that antibiotics have a "depressive" effect on the body, which is not the same thing as depression.

My sister suggested I might like to try Liquorice tea. Do you guys think that is safe? She said (she she studies this stuff) that liquorice is a stronger natural antidepressant than St John’s Wort, which is ranked alongside prozac etc for efficacy, but that it doesn’t have all the horrid side-effects. Perhaps because of the slightly different effects they have or don’t have on serotonin as explained in this peculiar research article about depressed Swiss mice having to go swimming.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16443316

Leaves, PLEASE could you post a link to the online checklists for deficiencies in the nutrients that you mentioned? Thx.

Hi Athene,

I drink ta with licourice root in it. Sometimes I think it may have given me a headache, but other times I think it may be helpful. It should be good for OI, as it raises blood pressure, though you want to be careful if high blood pressure is an issue. I've been finding it helpful to drink, especially since I can't drink black or even green tea. The only time I tried an anti depressant it made me ill. Seems like they help some people but the risk of side effects that last and also dependancy puts me off.

 

[SOC]

Absolutely not! Cymbalta made me much much worse! CFS/ME is a physical disease not a mental disease. If we don't want doctors and the public viewing us as mental patients, then we should start by boycotting AD's for our own treatment of CFS/ME! We can't be hypocrites.

You do realize that depression is also a physical disease, don't you? Read up on endogenous depression. It's believed to be a genetic disease. Many illnesses can interfere with neurotransmitter function, too. Ever heard of post-viral depression? "Depression" occurs along with other neurological illnesses like Parkinson's, MS, and stroke.

Sure, some people take antidepressants because they can't handle life (read about exogenous or situational depression), but there's many more who have genuine physical illness.

Many, many people with neurotransmitter disorders (called depression) suffer from the same Stupid Name Bias the Chronic Fatigue Syndrom patients complain about. I did NOT expect to see that type of prejudice here, of all places.

BTW: A large number people who have bad rxns to antidepressants are thought to be people without neurotransmitter disorders who nevertheless take antidepressants. Your neurotransmitters are working fine, you take a medication that alters your neurotransmitter balance, and you get sick. Duh. Doesn't mean the medication is bad. If you take thyroid meds when your thyroid is fine, that messes you up, too. Pretty obvious, eh?

I think it's stupid for people without neurotransmitter disorders to take neurotransmitter altering medications. I also think it's stupid to deter people with neurotransmitter disorders from taking appropriate medications because you can't get past the idiotic name.

It wouldn't be at all surprising, given the neurological issues with ME/CFS that neurotransmitter disorders could be a part of the illness. That wouldn't mean we're a bunch of poor copers. CBT helps poor coping, not physical illness.

 

[Wayne]

Alpha-Stim for Depression

I have found microcurrent therapy (Alpha-Stim) to be very helpful for settling down my brain and neurological system. It's supposed to be good for insomnia, depression, anxiety, etc. This link has more information, including a number of testimonials.

Allevia Health, Inc.

It was approved by the FDA about 30 years go for depression, anxiety, etc. Unfortunately, they don't send sales people around to doctors like the pharmaceutical companies do, so most doctors aren't aware of it.

 

[Tia]

"when my life had gone completely tits up " I couldn't help myself but to laugh at this frase. "Tits up". U made my day!

Concearning antidepressants I can only say I'm on one from the prozacfamily and they have saved my life. Been on and off them for ten years and YES, they make my life livable.

 

[Dreambirdie]

I have found microcurrent therapy (Alpha-Stim) to be very helpful for settling down my brain and neurological system. It's supposed to be good for insomnia, depression, anxiety, etc. This link has more information, including a number of testimonials..

Okay, so here's where my brain REALLY DISAGREES with Wayne's brain...
Sorry, but I guess we must be on different wave lengths... ::Retro tongue::Retro tongue::Retro tongue: :Sign Good one:

The Alpha Stim made me feel absolutely OVER-stimulated, as in hyper and nearly manic.
I would not recommend it.

 

[Athene]

Thank you everyone for yet more fantastic advice. Thank you for the links, and the cautions.. for everything. And that swimming mouse is one of the cutest things I have ever seen!!! I keep coming back to look at him again!

I was very interested in the Alpha stim until I saw the price, which almost gave me a funny turn. Do they sell them second hand? I have heard about people with this hyper-manic sensation and yearned to experience it for many years!!! I spend much of my time feeling hit-over-the-head and dulled out like a dopehead. (Anyone English, just picture Dylan the rabbit from the Magic Roundabout... that's me).

 

[paclabman]

Lyme can cause depression at a much higher rate than the general population or even people with other chonic conditions. There was a good study from Columbia/ Fallon published a year ago. If you're interested I'll find the link.

Like a lot of us you're probably very sensitive to meds and should probably start at a lower dose than most GP's would do. I got great relief from one of the second tier meds - Lamictal. Depression is like looking at the world thru negative tinted glasses. There are all kinds of benefits from having a more positive view of things.

My experience has been a little different - if you have the question, then it's worth trying. And ya, I think the old tricylic meds are really bad.

 

[heapsreal]

antidepressant canhelp with energy and pain as well as insomnia. If using an ssri or nsri get the lowest strength tablet, not capsule and cut it into 1/4 and start from there, that might be all u need and only increase dosages by a 1/4 no more then weekly, this is because we are so sensitive to stimulating medication, well i am, for insomnia tricyclics are the GO and once again low dosages help with sleep but probably wont help with depression but u will feel better if u sleep well. TO avoid side effects which are common with tricyclic, use them like sleeping pills, 2-3 nights a week, doxepine i have found to be alot more sedating then amitriptyline.

cheers!!!

 

[undcvr]

Hey Athene,
I have been on antidepressants b4 n definitely recommend it if u r feeling apathy in ur life rite now. There is some recent research that shows that pple that have active infections in them tend to become depressed bcos the active bacteria or viruses produces proteins that a normal healthy person does not have in their body. These proteins CAUSE the depression. So treating the depression indirectly treats the infection. Besides this all antidepressant meds have got many advantages, they grow more brain cells and connections in your brain, re-wiring your brain to handle the stress better. We can all do with that.
But like many cfs-ers you will prob only be able to take a low dose of the med the good part is that that low dose is All u need for the med to work and see results.
I dont know if it is bcos we r more sensitive to meds in general or it is the infections making it so but I do notice that I am very sensitive to caffiene and Adderall when I take them. This suggests a weak CNS though.

If you have insomnia, the best thing for it is reall Tryptophan on an empty stomach, 4-5gm before bed. Magnesium Orotate helps alot too. Oh and dont forget Klono ... also one of my favs. Melatonin works in the 6mg range for me.

Good luck.

 

[lancelot]

Don't do it kid.

 

[Athene]

Hi folks!
I just wanted to says thank you again for all this excellent advice. I've decided to give all the various approaches a try, introducing them one at a time so I can actually tell the effects of each. Does this sound like a good plan?

So I've already begun with GENTLE detoxing using very hot baths, drinking lots of water and taking B12. I already think I can feel this beginning to help.
After this Im planning to introduce some of the nutrients several of you have recommended, one at a time to gauge the effect.
If necessary after this I'll try some herbal stuff.
Then I'll leave prescription stuff as a last resort, but hopefully I won't need it.

Have I missed anything out of this? (Apart from the little electronic thingy which I'd like to try, but it's too expensive, especially since I don't know if it would work for me).

 

[leela]

I would emphasise the importance of a good probiotic source or two, given the long course of antibiotics, to repopulate the gut, if that's not already in your regimen. Also the clay footbaths are very drawing, yet not overly aggressive.

Be well soon!

 

[heapsreal]

Can always try an antidepressant and if u dont agree with it just stop it. What i have helpful for bolstering my mood is 200mg of 5htp in the morning and its definately helped in that department, but like alot of cfsers im very sensitive to ssri's, they hype me up too much on normal doses, very small tablets cut in 1/4 can make a difference for us, too many docs start cfs patients on to higher dose of an AD, go low and go slow when it comes to AD's