Shoemaker Biotoxin Thesis

[Dufresne]

Air sampling tests can tell you the quantities present, but for you, those figures are meaningless. Large amounts of benign molds will not bother you while small amounts of dangerous molds will adversely impact your health. You need to know what types of mold are present, not just the quantities. The ERMI test which uses DNA to identify the types of mold present in the sample is the only way to ascertain if your environment is safe for a mold-susceptible person.

I believe they're saying the total mold count is not important for people who are ill, that what one needs is the identity of the mold as well as the ratio of good to bad.

 

[ebethc]

I've used various binders, including cholestyramine, and felt wiped out in exactly the manner Shoemaker describes results from hypoxia: burning muscles, shortness of breath, fatigue etc. Interestingly I've only experienced this when I was consuming carbohydrates at the same time as I was using the binders. So it seems they are moving toxins, and carbohydrate consumption does exacerbate the inflammation from exposure to these toxins. It's been great to confirm and understand at least this much about my disease after all these years.

@Dufresne - did cholestyramine help you? what dose were you taking? do you think that is would have helped to use a lower dose?

I haven't read Shoemaker's book. I would, but I don't have the money, as pathetic as that is..... Do you think it can help to try cholestyramine alone?
thanks

 

[Little Bluestem]

@ebethc, your local library might be able to get the book through inter-library loan.

 

[ebethc]

@ebethc, your local library might be able to get the book through inter-library loan.

have you tried cholestyramine ?

 

[Little Bluestem]

No I have not. I have received books through inter-library loan.

 

[Dufresne]

@ebethc
The book is actually a bit of a mess and doesn't have an index. Just go to http://www.survivingmold.com/ and you'll get a pretty good idea of what it's all about.

I'm using binders again for the first time in a few months. I find cholestyramine, activated charcoal, bentonite, and chlorella all work well. I've no doubt toxins are coming out, and this has to be a good thing, but I've yet to make any tangible gains from it. Mold avoidance, on the other hand, paid off almost immediately. I think the vast majority of us have years of stored toxins within us, and this takes time to unload. Most feel much better with strict avoidance; some feel better with avoidance and binders; some feel much worse with binders. Experiment.

 

[Dreambirdie]

I believe they're saying the total mold count is not important for people who are ill, that what one needs is the identity of the mold as well as the ratio of good to bad.

I know you posted earlier about the ERMI. Is there just that one lab that does that test? Do they have a good track record? Did you use that lab yourself, and if so did it seem accurate to you?

Because these tests are so expensive I have put off testing, but want to get to it some time this summer. So tired of spending money on useless information... I had some mold testing done in 2010 from air samples. It was $600 and a waste of money.

 

[Ema]

I know you posted earlier about the ERMI. Is there just that one lab that does that test? Do they have a good track record? Did you use that lab yourself, and if so did it seem accurate to you?

Because these tests are so expensive I have put off testing, but want to get to it some time this summer. So tired of spending money on useless information... I had some mold testing done in 2010 from air samples. It was $600 and a waste of money.

@Dreambirdie, this link may help:

http://www.momsaware.org/mold-testing/83-ermi-mold-testing.html

 

[Dreambirdie]

Thanks @Ema

 

[ebethc]

@ebethc
The book is actually a bit of a mess and doesn't have an index. Just go to http://www.survivingmold.com/ and you'll get a pretty good idea of what it's all about.

I'm using binders again for the first time in a few months. I find cholestyramine, activated charcoal, bentonite, and chlorella all work well. I've no doubt toxins are coming out, and this has to be a good thing, but I've yet to make any tangible gains from it. Mold avoidance, on the other hand, paid off almost immediately. I think the vast majority of us have years of stored toxins within us, and this takes time to unload. Most feel much better with strict avoidance; some feel better with avoidance and binders; some feel much worse with binders. Experiment.

@Dufresne - how do you use charcoal? i have some... I also have some bentonite, but doesn't bentonite attract all metals?? i.e. it indiscriminately pull everything out..

I'm afraid of chlorella because it has iodine - and I'm extremely sensitive to iodine.

Are charcoal & bentonite as effective as cholestyramine?

thanks!

 

[sscobalt93]

@Dufresne - how do you use charcoal? i have some... I also have some bentonite, but doesn't bentonite attract all metals?? i.e. it indiscriminately pull everything out..

I'm afraid of chlorella because it has iodine - and I'm extremely sensitive to iodine.

Are charcoal & bentonite as effective as cholestyramine?

thanks!

What symptoms do you have to iodine? Have you tried algae for your source of iodine? I cannot tolerate Iodine supplements but I can tolerate iodine naturally occuring. I also take 200mcg selenium daily. Selenium deficiency can cause issues with iodine.

 

[ebethc]

What symptoms do you have to iodine? Have you tried algae for your source of iodine? I cannot tolerate Iodine supplements but I can tolerate iodine naturally occuring. I also take 200mcg selenium daily. Selenium deficiency can cause issues with iodine.

@sscobalt93 - so, you can take chlorella w no problem, as long as your selenium levels are adequate?

Funny you mention the selenium I just was reading exactly what you're saying on Chris Kresser's site and started taking selenium... I'm still a little afraid of iodine, though. Also, I felt terrible today.. slept most of the day and had a terrible headache... so maybe i'm adding selenium that i don't need..

thanks.

 

[sscobalt93]

@sscobalt93 - so, you can take chlorella w no problem, as long as your selenium levels are adequate?

Funny you mention the selenium I just was reading exactly what you're saying on Chris Kresser's site and started taking selenium... I'm still a little afraid of iodine, though. Also, I felt terrible today.. slept most of the day and had a terrible headache... so maybe i'm adding selenium that i don't need..

thanks.

@ebethc I cannot confirm about chlorella myself. I dont risk taking it due to heavy metal issues. I can however take Kelp just fine.

I've read Chris Kresser's site about selenium. He is against selenium supplements and I can understand why since there isn't long term studies on it. But I don't think 200 mcg would be too bad. There was a study with cancer patients and they noted the ones taking the selenium had a higher risk of diabetes. But that could be anything. The numbers were too close to really say selenium causes diabetes. The only thing I could think of would be because of a chromium deficiency. Which selenium and chromium do compete for each other, but this was after 1 year of use and the numbers from the placebo group were too close to call. Selenium has so many benefits, in fact it shrinks goiters more effectivly than iodine. People with hashimoto's are advised against iodine because it can worsen the condition, but when ~200mcg of selenium is used for 2 weeks prior to iodine it has actually shown to boost the thyroid and help with hashimoto's.

If I were you I would try to take the selenium 200 mcg a day for 1-2 weeks then use Kelp and see how it goes. Bragg's sells kelp granuals in a spice shaker. It's real easy just to sprinkle on your food. It has forsure helped my thyroid out. Potassium iodide made me feel pretty bad. It's always best to get the nutrition from food. Brazil nuts are high in selenium, but I am currently dealing with EBV and nuts are bad for the condition due to the high argenine content. Which sucks Hemp Seeds are my favorite :/

 

[Dufresne]

@Dufresne - how do you use charcoal? i have some... I also have some bentonite, but doesn't bentonite attract all metals?? i.e. it indiscriminately pull everything out..

Are charcoal & bentonite as effective as cholestyramine?

It depends on who you talk to. Shoemaker sticks with cholestyramine and welchol, while other mold doctors use them all. Dr Nathan believes it depends on the mycotoxin you're dealing with. I've felt detox symptoms with the four I mentioned.

I take a heaping tablespoon of bentonite, chlorella, activated charcoal, or CSM 40 minutes before at least two of my meals. I figure getting the nighttime's toxins in the bile after a fatty breakfast is the most effective way to go. If I have any meds to take I do so 40 minutes before the binder. So I often have to wait an hour and a half until I can dig into breakfast. I believe the bile stays loaded in the liver/gallbladder until your gut detects fat, so another option might be to have a fat-free breakfast with your meds and then do a binder before a fatty lunch.

I don't worry too much about minerals. I take a multimineral and use sea salt, and I'm usually only using binders about half the time: one month on, one month off. I think a good diet along with a few supplements should negate most concerns about nutrient deficiency from binding.

 

[sscobalt93]

@Dufresne You need to worry about minerals. Minerals are very important. Without proper mineral levels vitamins are useless. Sea Salt is a great way for trace minerals. I use Redmonds Real Salt, It helps ALOT. I use it a lot for salt water flushes as well. This is a great way to get you minerals up aswell as clean you out.

 

[ebethc]

I take a heaping tablespoon of bentonite, chlorella, activated charcoal, or CSM 40 minutes before at least two of my meals. I figure getting the nighttime's toxins in the bile after a fatty breakfast is the most effective way to go. If I have any meds to take I do so 40 minutes before the binder. So I often have to wait an hour and a half until I can dig into breakfast. I believe the bile stays loaded in the liver/gallbladder until your gut detects fat, so another option might be to have a fat-free breakfast with your meds and then do a binder before a fatty lunch.

@Dufresne -
What do you use to counteract the constipating effects of charcoal? I took 2 charcoal capsules last night (280 mg x 2) then right before bed dissolved a heaping teaspoon of magnesium into water and drank it... I'm drinking a cup of coffee now, but so far no movement...

Also, how many days a week is it safe to do a charcoal flush?j

thanks

 

[Gingergrrl]

I take a heaping tablespoon of bentonite, chlorella, activated charcoal, or CSM 40 minutes before at least two of my meals. I

@Dufresne I thought charcoal had to be 90 min from food (in both directions!) or does each mold doctor have different opinions on this rule? I have not started yet with binders and tagged you into another thread where I spoke more specifically re: my questions earlier today. I hope you don't mind!

 

[Christopher]

I believe they're saying the total mold count is not important for people who are ill, that what one needs is the identity of the mold as well as the ratio of good to bad.

There are certain toxins that are just really terrible for me. I'm recently discovering or thinking I'm discovering that a room in a house in which at one time I ran a computer that was running at a previous residence is driving inflammation like mad in me.

I had been sleeping in another room previously and regaining energy and mood, however a couple days after moving back into my original room, my mood and energy began to deteriorate again. This is despite removing the problematic computer and cleaning the hardwood floors and walls. Perhaps the toxic gas emanating from the computer is embedded in the drywall or insulation - no way for me to tell.

I also have a tent set up in the yard which I seldom use because it's unpleasant, but I do feel my best mood and energy wise if I spend time out there.