Serrapeptase and others experiences

[Dysfunkion]

So I have recently over the past five days hopped on the anti-protein train with serrapeptase 120,000 SPU in the morning. The first couple days were pretty brutal. My usual neuropathy flares in my face/head were directly modulated by it along with some other interconnected apparently ear pressure in my bad ear. Achy feelings would migrate around my head and my body a bit and especially at the base of the neck and around it where there was some weird pulsing at times too. Day 3 this calmed down a bit but I felt a bit more bloated and had some pretty bad resulting anxiety flares probably coming from some vagal response but the neuropathy flares in my face were almost entirely eliminated at the usual times of the day. Last night I had a bunch of salmon and some veggies and I noticed later and into the next day here it makes me feel a bit more "spicy faced" but nothing like before. I am also have more normal bowel movements now especially after a lot of food so despite some more bloated feelings it seems to be doing some good in there in clearing something out. The bloating might also be from the detox as I'm moving gunk out and it has to pass through my liver into the guts and out. M<y senses overall are much clearer too. This morning after my dose a couple hours I started getting more nasal drip (this also seems to happen in mini episodes with this stuff followed by more sinus inflammation relief after a flare of being closed up deep inside in the worst nostril that's been doing that for many years now) and a gross taste in my mouth which tends to happen randomly some time later after a dose. Today it tastes like lovely "subtle rotten onion noted trash", the other day it was "minty metal garbage" noted. Then it just randomly disappears at some point after.

Has anyone else that tried this stuff or the others like nattokinase or lumbrokinase had any similar experiences? Or other strange roller coaster like this on them? Right now I don't really know what to think. I feel better in general with it but this is a pretty wild ride.

 

[linusbert]

could be immune reaction, after all its proteins from a foreign lifeform.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Today it tastes like lovely "subtle rotten onion noted trash", the other day it was "minty metal garbage" noted. Then it just randomly disappears at some point after.

sounds like you are detoxing. I've taken more nattoK than serraK. It's my intention to take them more often but I don't take them very often.

A study indicated you'd need like 10,000 units of Natto a day, to get clots to break down. Thats something I would never do. I always go real slow with these enzymes.

 

[ilivewithcfs]

I took nattokinase with horrible initial effects. You've got to take it really low and slow with this stuff. I had to divide each capsule in 4 parts to make sure it won't make me worse. In couple of weeks I felt significant improvement. I thought I was cured. In couple of months it stopped working. It's a really cruel disease.
Don't be discouraged though, maybe it'll help you, we are all so different. Good luck.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

You've got to take it really low and slow with this stuff

I might take one nattokinase in a month. I told myself I was working on clots and added a micro dose of aspirin. I took more aspirin than I ever did nattokinase. I keep telling myself to seriously up the dose.

I"m actually really bad at taking pills, swallowing anything. I resist it alot. I'm like a five year old.

I'm so sorry something helped you, @ilivewithcfs and then stopped or (whatever it is) that is not uncommon with us.

 

[Dysfunkion]

I took nattokinase with horrible initial effects. You've got to take it really low and slow with this stuff. I had to divide each capsule in 4 parts to make sure it won't make me worse. In couple of weeks I felt significant improvement. I thought I was cured. In couple of months it stopped working. It's a really cruel disease.
Don't be discouraged though, maybe it'll help you, we are all so different. Good luck.

Yeah I noticed that with reports on this stuff in general, I went with serra because it appeared to be better tolerated. Some people are fine for a while and then get a period of really nasty symptom flares and then it settles down again. Its still a symptom roller coaster with me here but I feel better in general with this stuff in my system. My digestive system is just more or less unhappy with it at a various times and sometimes it also if they aren't happy enough causes some light insomnia but i'm just pushing through it since its obviously kicking out something nasty little by little.

If anything does get unmanageable ill just cut the dose down but right now I'm at least tolerating it and on a functional level its giving me a better baseline so far.

I do also have caricain on the way to see how that stacks on top of this but I'm not sure when that will get here as the Glutguard is coming from Australia and it hasn't seemed to ship yet.

 

[Dysfunkion]

Today I started off like I have in past days since my last post been taking the single serrapeptase capsule and have been pretty stable with sometimes random aches. Like today for some reason my elbows both randomly ached for a while and then at some point later just randomly stopped which only started happening since the serrapaptase.

I have added papain later when I got out of work since that arrived (nothing on the caricain yet). My digestive system after taking it almost immediately calmed down quite a bit and my vision was a bit clearer, I also felt calmer in a vague normal way. Then later (by a couple hours) also caused some ache flares but in ,my head/face where I initially did after starting the serrapaptase. It along with fluctuations in sensory clarity and mood like with the serra will also occur somewhat frequently and leave me better off when resolved. So I so far at least seemed to find a pattern only consistent with enzyme treatments that degrade proteins. I'm just going to keep going with this and see what happens. I'm also eating tonight so I'll see if any food reactions have changed. Will make something messy that would usually stir up quite the reaction. Though what I'm finding is around this time I'm typing t now is usually like I mentioned in another topic before when the gut mediated circadian immune flare window occurs where anything I consume in that window will accelerate some kind of immune flare that always begins ramping up around this time resulting in the usual "spicy brain and pressure" feeling. If I consumed something nasty the night before it will be worse, like the day before yesterday I had some Chinese takeout food and that really made it worse. I'm not going to take another capsule right after eating or right before because I want to keep conditions stable and this feels like I'm in herx territory anyways so I'm treading carefully on that front too. Will give an update some point tomorrow or the next day.

edit a while later - The head aching has definitely picked up in the usual areas and like the serra is a direct hit on my symptom cluster. Again like when I first started the serra right at the base of the neck when things started getting a bit more crazy too. Enzymes rapidly fluctuate it for sure like nothing else but always have a pattern of making something better. Makes me all the more interested in seeing how the next week and later after a bunch of food unfolds with both of these if I don't run into any major road blocks.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I had some Chinese takeout food and that really made it worse.

I just cannot do it. The glutamate sensitivity has gotten worse it seems here. And the mushrooms.

My cook buys some mushrooms, and then waits days to make anything. The longer they sit around the more glutamate they produce. Some shiitakes on a pizza nearly killed me.

There is also the problem with hard cheeses and so Pizza, a thing for me to eat mushrooms, is not worth it.

 

[Dysfunkion]

I just cannot do it. The glutamate sensitivity has gotten worse it seems here. And the mushrooms.

My cook buys some mushrooms, and then waits days to make anything. The longer they sit around the more glutamate they produce. Some shiitakes on a pizza nearly killed me.

There is also the problem with hard cheeses and so Pizza, a thing for me to eat mushrooms, is not worth it.

Yeah I need to stop, thanks for reminding me. lol Gotta stop the stress eating junk more often. But see I don't mind being my naturally flawed self while doing these experiments because it keeps things under conditions I would naturally be under instead of me clearing out everything just for the new addition of something. I only keep very solid factors in what I consume daily/routinely as a backbone as a guide. If the changes can't coexist with even unhealthy lifestyle factors then they aren't strong enough to keep around. I have a feeling the flare from the chinese food specifically with what I usually get is due to some glutamate gut microbiome metabolism factor. I was over the past week using Chatgpt to dissect that but it's so complex that I don't have anything worth saying on it up front in mind and I need to get some basic map outline of it done at some point and put it to use after I know more about what is going on experimenting with these enzymes in the more "strange improvements from dietary changes" topic front.

On mushrooms I didn't know they do that. So if you leave them sitting around longer in general they just start producing more glutamate? Makes me almost wanna get a pack shiitakes and eat them to see what happens on it's own. I don't have mushrooms too often though and when I do I never eat them in any significant amount so there's that too though. I like them though, really tasty in many contexts and I actually like the texture.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

On mushrooms I didn't know they do that. So if you leave them sitting around longer in general they just start producing more glutamate?

yes I've really noticed it with mushrooms and I"m not particularly good at "nuanced noticing". Hence, Im' not very good at this n=1 stuff.

IF I take all these supplements, I rarely notice any difference.

A really fresh white button mushroom is not Too much glutamate but shiitakes is an overdose. As they ripen, they get stronger.

That overdose is then further overdone if it's Pizza with hard cheeses. More glutamate hit from that cheese.

I have access to unpasteurized butter and the local cheeses are not aged, so I eat those without trouble.

edited to say I'm sorry I said half of this already....in the prior post I often don't remember I already posted.

 

[Dysfunkion]

yes I've really noticed it with mushrooms and I"m not particularly good at "nuanced noticing". Hence, Im' not very good at this n=1 stuff.

IF I take all these supplements, I rarely notice any difference.

A really fresh white button mushroom is not Too much glutamate but shiitakes is an overdose. As they ripen, they get stronger.

That overdose is then further overdone if it's Pizza with hard cheeses. More glutamate hit from that cheese.

I have access to unpasteurized butter and the local cheeses are not aged, so I eat those without trouble.

edited to say I'm sorry I said half of this already....in the prior post I often don't remember I already posted.

All the supplements I'm currently on I have built up over a long period of time, when I first crashed into severe I had to rebuild everything. Besides my methyl-b12 and vegan D3 itself (but my dose is different now and I wasn't on it when I crashed) my stack is completely different now. Everything that is part of it is something that in the first 10-15 minutes of ingesting "did something" and then leveled out in stability. Now I take it all and I don't get any change in anything but will with some things if I adjust the dosage. The only things currently "doing something" are the newest enzymes and also myrrh that I'm playing with right now. I wonder though if I really have an issue with glutamate itself ingested or some metabolite of it since things that technically have a lot of it don't do nearly the same amount of damage a lot of soy sauce or even worse tofu will do.

I haven't had any cheese in a while but the other week I ate a bunch of butter shrimp and my body was just fine with that so I'm obviously much less dairy sensitive than I used to be. I'm not sure how I'd handle cheese though but I think I'm better off without it and don't miss it besides in the context of pizza sometimes. I did at some Italian place months ago have a bunch of bread with a tomato sauce topping on them and my head was pretty spice for an entire day afterwards but nothing horrible. I could probably have a cheat day with a good tomato and veggie pizza now and then.

 

[Dysfunkion]

Just an update, the caricain should come in tomorrow and I might try it on Friday. Currently doing alright but currently am dealing with some sinus inflammation and never ending post nasal drip this weekend. Gets worse the deeper into the work week I get. Not sure if its the enzymes hitting a speed bump or im actually just a bit sick but im just pushing through regardless. Will give an update on the new stuff when I have it.

edit 5/16 - Tomorrow I have a supplement with cellulase, hemicellulase, beta-glucanase, amylase, xylanase, and invertase. Going to give a fraction of a dose and if that goes well half a dose a try. Currently this stack I have going is working on proteins mostly. The only supplement I could find that only had cellulase had a lot of other ingredients. Looking for enzymes is a pain because you often only find a bunch of formulas instead of just a single one in minimal filler but this one appeared to be by some miracle decent for a multi focused on the specific cell walls I need it for (if I tolerate it). I don't have much to say on the caricain right now as I'm still trialing it, may not have much to say for a while as I work with this.

edit - 5/19 - I'm still doing a lot of experimentation with enzyme and food combinations. I also have Pure Encapsulations Gluten/Dairy Digest with endo/exopeptidase in it. The Gluteguard would be just too expensive to hold up but this according to reviews does things in the gluten sphere just as well. Likely I'll be able to try that on Sunday.

 

[Dysfunkion]

So I wanted to since I started lumbrokinase today as I edited into another post but I'll start from the beginning and just continue to keep all that here.

Took it in the morning with my serrapeptase and gluteguard since it was also gluteguard and red light day (currently every other day but switching this schedule up to accommodate the lumbrokinase). In the first half an hour I get more sensory clarity and generally feel a bit better, scent is much clearer specifically. As that is going on my face also feels a bit spicy and my immune system feels a bit angry but it didn't come with the whole burning inflamed brain package, this felt almost right under the skin and was more mentally irritating and still is yet I'm behind it much clearer which is something I never experienced before. Another interesting note is that this feeling will come and go so it's not like a traditional immune reaction. I wonder if it's actually just breaking something up and this is just what is in what is being broken up that the other enzymes weren't able to touch. Lumbrokinase also doesn't have histamine itself in it though this reaction overall specifically doesn't occur from eating something with a lot of histamine. My digestive system also feel a bit off but nothing major. The most obnoxious symptom this stuff is flaring right now is the stingy eyes and forehead. It's not even hot temperature-ish feeling, it's like someone was accidentally cooking something with a lot of chili paste right next to me. A little bit more watery nasal gunk coming out too, passages can't seem to decide on if they want to stay open or closed. I'm also a bit more fatigued right now but it's not day ruining.

The new enzyme schedule will be serrapeptase every day, lumbrokinase every other day, and gluteguard every third day.

 

[linusbert]

The new enzyme schedule will be serrapeptase every day, lumbrokinase every other day, and gluteguard every third day.

if reaction is so strong, maybe 1 day one enzyme, 3days pause, then next

 

[Dysfunkion]

if reaction is so strong, maybe 1 day one enzyme, 3days pause, then next

Yeah I'm starting to consider that, I'll stick with the original pattern idea first and if there is too much of a build up that gets hard to handle before (and if) it gets better scale back to 3 days and go back to the old one with the serra and gluteguard. Right now with the lumbro I am getting that kind of blah, depressed like effect that a lot of users note with it with such a small dose but the main "spicy face" immune reaction has died down quite a bit with a bit more tinnitus right now and more generalized mild head pressure. It's a small dose so I can't imagine it's the lumbrokinase itself's vascular effects but what it's hitting in there as I also can't find any evidence of it doing much to hormones or neurotransmitters.

But luckily I care less right now since I'm off work for the Summer and have more time to ride out side effects easier and relax through them. I can work when I'm going through something like this but it's never a good time and usually since I'm really sensitive and flush prone it also gets super embarrassing since when my nervous system gets like this it will do that to the most mundane stimuli.

Edit 6/20 evening - Its night time here and yeah I definitely need to scale this back. My brain tonight is absolute mush. In fact I didn't realize how bad it was till I tried to play a game and it was like the cognitive wires for doing these kinds of things were unplugged or something. My senses are far clearer though so I imagine this is one of the most brutal herxs I had in a while. I'm just gping to go to sleep here since in this staye cognitively I can barely do anything or feel anytging fun/rewarding.

 

[linusbert]

yea go slow and lightly, not crazy and hard. i do not do it myself because i am impatient cant wait... but hey, lets better not get more sick, right?

what game? maybe its the games fault

 

[Dysfunkion]

yea go slow and lightly, not crazy and hard. i do not do it myself because i am impatient cant wait... but hey, lets better not get more sick, right?

what game? maybe its the games fault

I was feeling better the next day with only a little of the splash effects of the lumbrokinase hanging around the next day so I just decided this morning to try the every other day thing. The night of the first lumbrokiase dose was horrible and I can assure you it was the side effects as it was like I was in the twilight zone neurologically. But I was playing Diablo 4, granted I'm getting bored of it but I couldn't even properly comprehend what was going on, on screen. lol Tonight I was going to start playing Phantom Brave: The Lost Hero though. I tend to like playing a lot of RPG strategy games with a lot of deep infinite mechanics so when I take a cognitive blow I REALLY notice it when I try to play anything. I'll notice it even if I'm playing something simple like pinball though too because I won't be able to react properly to anything and my reactions will have a delay to them.

Interesting results like usual, this time that initial reaction didn't fully occur and it was more managable. I did get a spike in feeling more depressed, anxious, and generally dysphoric but it also wasn't as bad as the first dose that came with this horrible forehead/eye stinging thing that this dose didn't cause. I think it's also my 3rd session on the red light therapy at 2 minutes I'm also using every other day with the caricain enzyme.

I also notice that when I do feel better which can rapidly shift much more often now (whereas before all these enzymes and red light therapy I felt rather blunted and uninterested in life consistently, lots of apathy) it's like a switch being hit in my nervous system. Before I was in a wave of feeling really blunted mentally but suddenly I'm much more clear with no real trigger in between. This happened yesterday too but to a much lesser extent, for some reason that blunted state also correlated with my sweating not working properly either. When that switch happens I respond normally to heat again which I'm constantly in as my air conditioning isn't working right now. My senses overall since the lumbrokinase are far clearer. Like the state I'm in as I'm typing this is how I felt the middle of the day yesterday when I didn't take it so something is tapering off really quickly that initially was really bad on the first dose for some reason.

 

[linusbert]

diablo 4 is a loooot of happening on the screen, its amazing you can even play it.
try world of warcraft, things happen so slowly you need to only hit buttons every few seconds.

I also notice that when I do feel better which can rapidly shift much more often now (whereas before all these enzymes and red light therapy I felt rather blunted and uninterested in life consistently, lots of apathy) it's like a switch being hit in my nervous system. Before I was in a wave of feeling really blunted mentally but suddenly I'm much more clear with no real trigger in between.

maybe what this lumbrokinase actually is doing, its lightly poisonening you but some its training your body to adapt like a adaptogen and therefore you feel better in the supercompensation. this is wild speculation.
but the symptoms you describe remind me of a bit of mild poisoning.

 

[Dysfunkion]

diablo 4 is a loooot of happening on the screen, its amazing you can even play it.
try world of warcraft, things happen so slowly you need to only hit buttons every few seconds.

maybe what this lumbrokinase actually is doing, its lightly poisonening you but some its training your body to adapt like a adaptogen and therefore you feel better in the supercompensation. this is wild speculation.
but the symptoms you describe remind me of a bit of mild poisoning.

Yes I only just realized how much brain power it actually took upon playing the other night and realized how well I'm doing to even be able to handle a game like that now. There is a lot to remember, I almost treat it like playing some huge fantasy board game which makes it easier to digest. I'm usually on auto pilot when I'm playing because I learned so much by heart. Especially with my rotation on my character. I actually barely pay attention to the enemies on screen besides to avoid things and largely pay attention to what is going on with my cooldowns, hp/mp, and summons since my build is focused mainly on AOE damage. As long as I shield when I need to, it's about literally keeping the heat on them and keeping my distance (fire sorcerer main).

It likely is both, this condition if I learned anything so far is the strangest thing in the world. No one can just do what I did and get the same results. Some people did a lot of what I did and completely crashed from just RLT (even I didn't react well at first and had a rocky start). What landed me here in the first place when I joined was that poisoned super flu like feeling constantly and so badly with that brain on fire and lead body feeling that I thought often it was the end for me. Over time everything I (in a very frantic disorganized fashion as I threw everything I could at the wall) documented trying slowly with a lot of back and forth got me here. In between that I got diagnosed with lyme disease and I tried the herbals which got me much further although also had a very rough start too.

What I got the other night from adding the new thing was just a shadow of the worst I dealt with before. Felt weak and brain dead but I didn't have the burning brain, the heavy lead like feeling, or any flu like symptoms. In fact those by all my most recent developments in what I been doing have reduced all of that to a minimum. Lumbrokinase actually managed to reduce the pressure in my right ear to almost nothing most of the time but the tinnitus left. The head pressure with it now comes and goes, it's less constant with it and more random now.

It's just one of those times where I probably now won't have much to say on this for months and in a couple I'll be working again which will also really put how far I come to the test but I hope to come back to work stronger and have a better year with everyone. I shouldn't have as much nonsense to deal with this year though, I'll be able to save more when I start making money again, and just focus on how the long game with these enzymes and RLT goes.

 

[Dysfunkion]

Today was just a Serra day which I don't get any reaction to anymore. It was and still is infernally hot today and I been using my state of no air conditioning to do a test here Since everywhere I go has a sauna like effect I been sweating out as much as humanly possible to see what effect that has on me. I am feeling much better right now save for a mild sore throat that just started out of nowhere. So my money is on this is some detox thing. Tomorrow is another dose of the lumbrokinase but if this trend keeps up I'm not expecting as much from the next dose.