Serotonin the new 'Cure All'

[heapsreal]

@Martial No kidding? So why do you think the Seroquel helps? I'm telling you, I had this seething anger going on. I knew my brain was off but couldn't help not take it punt on people.

How long does this last? Ball park...

i reckon seroquel is like a brake for your brain or a reset button. it effects a few neurotransmitters that make it sedating.

 

[minkeygirl]

@heapsreal, so that means the methylation supplements do something to the neurotransmitters? Well, I'm just glad there's a reason why I'm angry all the time besides just inflammation and being a bitch!

The Seroquel saved me for the most part. I can feel my brain is better.

 

[Leopardtail]

i reckon seroquel is like a brake for your brain or a reset button. it effects a few neurotransmitters that make it sedating.

You are pretty much spot on heaps, it hinders the effect of a wide range of Neurotransmitters. Basically it's a med for extreme anger or Anxiety, but could cause a whole bunch of trouble with normal or low Neurotransmitter levels, or with in imbalance of them. There have been lawsuits around it.

 

[Leopardtail]

@heapsreal, so that means the methylation supplements do something to the neurotransmitters? Well, I'm just glad there's a reason why I'm angry all the time besides just inflammation and being a bitch!

The Seroquel saved me for the most part. I can feel my brain is better.

yes Minkey, methylation is involved in Neurotransmitters in various ways.
If you are taking any form or re-uptake inhibitor or mood enhancer for example the dose should be discussed with your doctor, you can end up with Neurotransmitter toxicity due to excessive levels.

 

[minkeygirl]

I've never been able to take any "brain" meds without problems. I forgot to take the seroquel last night and I'm really noticing a difference. Those 25 mgs help a lot.

I know it first came out for Bi-polar disorder.

The doc who gave me the seroquel is clueless about methylation and ME. I'm taking 25 mgs so I should be ok.

I'll discuss it with my NP next month.

 

[heapsreal]

You are pretty much spot on heaps, it hinders the effect of a wide range of Neurotransmitters. Basically it's a med for extreme anger or Anxiety, but could cause a whole bunch of trouble with normal or low Neurotransmitter levels, or with in imbalance of them. There have been lawsuits around it.

I find it great for sleep and is good when in a bad cycle of insomnia, thats when it resets everything.

But if i use it regularly i find my muscles and joints get stiff and sore, more then usual. i think this might be from lowering dopamine too much. I have used dopa macuna after a seroquel sleep and it has eased the muscle and joint pains some??

So i dont use it unless i really need to, plus traditional sleep meds still help. I dont know if its because i take a night off benzos when i use seroquel or if its something else but i find my benzo sleep meds work better after a night on seroquel??

I havent noticed any long term side effects but maybe using low doses(12.5mg -50/100mg) used infrequently is the key??

 

[minkeygirl]

I noticed a big difference in my brain today by not taking Italy night. I wasn't as angry as I had been but i could tell feel the difference in my brain.

I'm taking 25 Mgs (about) Becuase I'm splitting 100 Mgs so less may work too. I'll see when I get a refill.

 

[Martial]

@Martial No kidding? So why do you think the Seroquel helps? I'm telling you, I had this seething anger going on. I knew my brain was off but couldn't help not take it punt on people.

How long does this last? Ball park...

I can't say for how long it lasts, I didn't take any meds to compensate for it but I had to be sure not to go off on someone when it was happening myself LOL. It is definitely a common thing with methylation and just takes time and it fades when everything else comes back online, I got all kinds of weird emotional/psychiatric symptoms from startin g methylation. Niacin can help a ton, alongside being sure to have enough magnesium and just letting it pass through. Seroquel might have helped by making your emotions blunted, though I would be careful with anti psychotic drugs like that one.

 

[minkeygirl]

I had brain issues long before methylation and I've felt for a long time that I needed something. It was just a happy accident that the Seroquel helps me. At 25 mgs I'm not worried about it and the benefit I get right now is huge. Not just the anger, which was a nightmare but I feel calmer and less out of control. My senses aren't numbed at all, I just feel more level.

I forgot to take it Friday night and I felt really off so I'm staying on it because even after I get past the problems with methylation that would still leave me with the other issues.

 

[Martial]

I had brain issues long before methylation and I've felt for a long time that I needed something. It was just a happy accident that the Seroquel helps me. At 25 mgs I'm not worried about it and the benefit I get right now is huge. Not just the anger, which was a nightmare but I feel calmer and less out of control. My senses aren't numbed at all, I just feel more level.

I forgot to take it Friday night and I felt really off so I'm staying on it because even after I get past the problems with methylation that would still leave me with the other issues.

well thats a low dose, and that sounds fine minkey, whatever helps you sounds like it could be very therapeutic I have major brain issues too, just did a brain health test at my doctors which proved major impairment of electrical communication and the like.. My memory and learning were in the red, my reaction times and recognition levels were off the charts high though, so basically my long term memory/brain is effed.. LOL for now at least..

 

[minkeygirl]

I'm not talking about memory issues, more about brain function. Like I said, I've known something has been off for a long time, I just wasn't sure which way to go because I've had horrible reactions to other things that work specifically on the brain.

Years ago there was a psychologist Linda Miller-Iger who used the MMPI to diagnose CFS. I went through the testing and she told me my brain functioned at the level of a 5th grader. Add my other stuff (family history of mental issues) and I'm toast.

 

[minkeygirl]

What's interesting is just talking about this is pissing me off! Lol

 

[minkeygirl]

@Martial I just remembered you said to take niacin when feeling bad. . I thought I read that niacin stops the methylation process.

Did I read it wrong? Where am I confused?

 

[knackers323]

Anyone know what happened to the two biovista serotonin drugs that were meant to be so promising?

 

[catly]

Anyone know what happened to the two biovista serotonin drugs that were meant to be so promising?

I've been wondering that too, I don't think there has been any updates since this one http://solvecfs.org/cfids-associati...ful-completion-of-drug-repositioning-project/ dated Sept. 10, 2013.

Was it ever confirmed that the drugs identified work on serotonin?

 

[Leopardtail]

An SSRI gave me SEVERE akasthesia 6 years ago after only two doses and I have never fully recovered. This was when my GP believed I 'only' had depression. I actually wasn't depressed at all but was having anxiety problems and was in a severe M.E relapse.

This experience was exactly like being tortured only the intense phase lasted over two years. My first goal was just to be able to feel calm enough to sit down and eat dinner with my family, the second was to be able to relax enough to sit and watch tv in the living room with my husband.

I was not the least bit suicidal before I took the SSRI, but became so after the first dose and the thoughts plagued me on and off for a couple of years.

I will NEVER, EVER, EVER, put my body through that again. I cant actually believe I survived it, and think I may have a form of PTSD from the experience as for a few years afterwards I couldn't talk about anti depressants or look it up on the internet. I was so afraid by it that I couldn't even complain to my GP or health board as it made me panic every time I thought about it.

what's akasthesia?

 

[Leopardtail]

I find it great for sleep and is good when in a bad cycle of insomnia, thats when it resets everything.

But if i use it regularly i find my muscles and joints get stiff and sore, more then usual. i think this might be from lowering dopamine too much. I have used dopa macuna after a seroquel sleep and it has eased the muscle and joint pains some??

So i dont use it unless i really need to, plus traditional sleep meds still help. I dont know if its because i take a night off benzos when i use seroquel or if its something else but i find my benzo sleep meds work better after a night on seroquel??

I havent noticed any long term side effects but maybe using low doses(12.5mg -50/100mg) used infrequently is the key??

Whole bunch of problems can cause pain - not expert enough on pain to pick my way through it. I do know both dopamine and serotonin are involved in pain.

 

[justy]

what's akasthesia?

Akathisia is a painful inner agitation that typically manifests as the inability to sit still or to stop
moving. The hyperactivity may manifest itself subtly as a feeling of jitteriness or grossly as frantic pacing
or repeatedly sitting up and down. The inner agitation associated with akathisia can become extremely
uncomfortable, causing the individual to feel tortured from within (see vivid descriptions in Van Putten
[74,75] and Breggin [10], leading to extreme irritability and suicide or violence.
Although akathisia by definition usually involves a hyperactive movement component, clinical experience
indicates that the same jittery, agitated subjective experience, accompanied by irritable, violence
or suicidal feelings, can occur without the specific component of feeling driven to move about.

http://www.breggin.com/31-49.pdf

Akathisia typically goes away when the drug is stopped, however my extreme agitation and anxiety continued for over two years after cessation of the drug and my anxiety issues have never completely resolved. I developed Agoraphobia and now of course what with being relatively housebound with moderate M.E its pretty impossible to challenge the agoraphobia by a programme of desensitisation ie going out repeatedly until it feels normal. I have received treatment for this, but of course when a therapist tells you you have nothing to fear this is not true when you have M.E and cant go out without a wheelchair or someone to drive you.

I'm just hoping that if I get treatment for the M.E and it improves I can then deal with the other issues.

 

[adreno]

The SSRIs are characterized by selective inhibition of the presynaptic serotonin transporter, leading to enhanced activity of serotonin at postsynaptic receptors.3 A large number of serotonin receptor subtypes that regulate sleep and wakefulness as well as transitions between specific sleep stages, such as the termination of REM sleep, have been identified.

Because of the complexity of serotonin involvement in sleep-wake regulation, drugs that modulate serotonin activity can produce prominent and sometimes diverse effects on sleep. Some patients who took fluoxetine reported insomnia as an adverse effect, whereas other patients experienced daytime somnolence.11 This same pattern of diverse subjective reports on sleep and wakefulness has been reported in clinical trials with all of the drugs in this class.

While data have been reported most extensively for fluoxetine and paroxetine, class effects of SSRI therapy appear to include increased sleep onset latency and/or an increased number of awakenings and arousals, leading to an overall decrease in sleep efficiency.12,13 Virtually all of the SSRIs examined have been noted to suppress REM sleep.1 Clinically, reports of a change in the frequency, intensity, and content of dreaming can be associated with SSRIs, as well as the occurrence of these symptoms on discontinuation.

Be mindful that treatment of a patient with depression may produce significant improvement in symptoms of depression in general, yet may not address insomnia. In some cases, treatment with an SSRI may produce or exacerbate problems with sleep disturbance. Therefore, a medication that targets insomnia may also be prescribed for patients with depression who are being treated with an SSRI.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sleep-disorders/effects-antidepressants-sleep

 

[minkeygirl]

@justy can you say which SSRI?