antares4141
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Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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Researchers identify key role of immune cells in brain infection
- Thread starter antares4141
- Start date
While I didn't think that paper was likely to relate to ME, I noticed another paper on that website that did,
which led to more papers, which led to more papers... That's what the WWW was meant to do.
Items I found interesting:
Microglia can leave the CNS and move into peripheral nerves, and then move back into the brain carrying 'debris', which can cause neurological problems.
There's a drug that can eliminate microglial cells from the brain (not good for long-term health, but useful for research).
They've identified a pair of genes (CD33 and TREM2) that act as on and off switches for neuroinflammation. Certain mutations in TREM2 cause energy deficiency in microglial cells.
Replacement microglial cells come from existing microglial cells. To me that suggests that it's at least possible that ME could involve mutated microglia that reproduce, making ME persistent.
Microglia replace themselves faster than previously expected. A paper stated that we might renew our microglial populations six times in a typical lifetime. However, another paper on that site claims that microglia are longer lived than expected, lasting a lifetime. (Let's see if round two brings a clear winner.)
Allergies deactivate microglia, spurring more neural growth in the hippocampus. Does our memory improve during hayfever season?
Side note: researchers have come up with a peptide (STAT6-IP) that apparently teaches our immune systems to not develop allergies. Sounds promising.
A new early-stage response to infections has been found: "The newly discovered immune reaction is activated when the body's mucous membranes are disrupted, as they are when viruses and bacteria attempt to establish an infection. The immune system recognises the virus and produces a substance that neutralises the uninvited guest. The process goes on continuously without us being aware of it. If this first immune reaction is not sufficient to suppress the virus, the infection establishes itself in the body. This in turn triggers the next reaction involving interferon, which not only helps to fight the virus, but also means we become ill."
T-cells, B-cells and NK-cells produce antibodies that are important for getting microglial cells to recognize targets, such as beta-amyloid. We produce fewer T-cells and B-cells as we age, which means that microglial also become less effective. ME does tend to start later in life. Maybe the young ME victims have fewer T-cells and B-cells than normal?
Very interesting site. Thanks antares4141.
which led to more papers, which led to more papers... That's what the WWW was meant to do.
Items I found interesting:
Microglia can leave the CNS and move into peripheral nerves, and then move back into the brain carrying 'debris', which can cause neurological problems.
There's a drug that can eliminate microglial cells from the brain (not good for long-term health, but useful for research).
They've identified a pair of genes (CD33 and TREM2) that act as on and off switches for neuroinflammation. Certain mutations in TREM2 cause energy deficiency in microglial cells.
Replacement microglial cells come from existing microglial cells. To me that suggests that it's at least possible that ME could involve mutated microglia that reproduce, making ME persistent.
Microglia replace themselves faster than previously expected. A paper stated that we might renew our microglial populations six times in a typical lifetime. However, another paper on that site claims that microglia are longer lived than expected, lasting a lifetime. (Let's see if round two brings a clear winner.)
Allergies deactivate microglia, spurring more neural growth in the hippocampus. Does our memory improve during hayfever season?
Side note: researchers have come up with a peptide (STAT6-IP) that apparently teaches our immune systems to not develop allergies. Sounds promising.
A new early-stage response to infections has been found: "The newly discovered immune reaction is activated when the body's mucous membranes are disrupted, as they are when viruses and bacteria attempt to establish an infection. The immune system recognises the virus and produces a substance that neutralises the uninvited guest. The process goes on continuously without us being aware of it. If this first immune reaction is not sufficient to suppress the virus, the infection establishes itself in the body. This in turn triggers the next reaction involving interferon, which not only helps to fight the virus, but also means we become ill."
T-cells, B-cells and NK-cells produce antibodies that are important for getting microglial cells to recognize targets, such as beta-amyloid. We produce fewer T-cells and B-cells as we age, which means that microglial also become less effective. ME does tend to start later in life. Maybe the young ME victims have fewer T-cells and B-cells than normal?
Very interesting site. Thanks antares4141.
antares4141
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Very interesting site. Thanks antares4141.
Very welcome Wishful and inezella!
I wish I understood this enough to comment on it. It did seem like research in this direction could be worthwhile.
I sometimes think it could be as simple as some type of stomach bug, kill it and you get better.
Keep thinking if I read and understand this stuff well enough maybe I could self treat and alleviate some of my symptoms.
That and what if tomorrow I got better? What happened to me the past 25 years is water under the bridge. I would have the rest of my life in front of me free of this scourge.
Doesn't seem likely but is worth hanging onto.
I think if it was that simple, we'd see a lot more "cured of ME" stories. Flushing my gut out with food poisoning cured me of the type IV food sensitivity that came with my ME (or which caused my ME?), but it certainly didn't cure me of ME. However, the multiple temporary remission I experienced from multiple different causes, indicates that there is some simple switch involved in ME: switch it on, and you have ME symptoms; switch it off, and you are fully cured. Furthermore, some of these things that can switch ME off are fairly simple: prednisone, cuminaldehyde, T2. These aren't complex long-term treatments that have to carefully balance the microbiome and nutrient levels or kill off all microglial cells and replace them with fresh stem-cell derived ones. I took a capsule of T2 and the next day I awoke feeling fully healthy and bursting with energy. Prednisone took 5 days before it switched me to remission. It seems like a simple switch; we just need to figure out how it works and how to switch the state reliably.
I keep reading these scientific papers in the hope that I will see some connection that makes sense. Maybe I'll read something about some specific brain cell that has a consistent lifetime of 21 days, which means that it's involved in my ME and its reaction to T2. Maybe I'll read something about cuminaldehyde blocking a certain cell receptor. My reading turned up a link between carnitine levels in meats that matched my responses to those meats, and that gave me an effective treatment for that symptom. So yes, lets keep reading.
andyguitar
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Invitro experiments show that Black Cumin increases GABA.
Black cumin is unrelated to regular cumin, and lacks cuminaldehyde. For neurological effects for cuminaldehyde, all I've found so far is that it reduces agglomeration of alpha-synuclein, but I haven't thought of an experiment to verify whether that's why it worked for me. Since cumin no longer works has a noticeable effect, I can't test it or comparable herbs. I'll keep looking for links though.
antares4141
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I think if it was that simple, we'd see a lot more "cured of ME" stories.
You would think.
Usually when people claim remission I think certainly possible but have to consider it anecdote. Because we don't know what they had, how they perceived it, and what "cure" means to them. For instance I have had down trends and up trends. It is easy to get very excited even with small improvements.
When it can be diagnosed and the cure reproduced I will pay attention.
At this point mostly out of desperation thinking maybe I should try prednisone or maybe do another course of antibiotics, or some antivirals again.
I did have a period where I was semi functional and could do light work all day without a crash. That ended about two years ago. Now I can still take care of myself and do light chores just not in an 8 hour stretch. Always get PEM if I push myself.
And cognitive task's are very difficult. My brain starts misfiring just thinking about having to do them. And I end up having to lay down and try to get it to reboot.
Very frustrating!
I do believe that some people have cured themselves of true ME. However, I also believe that a lot of the 'cured' stories were about other diseases or even imagined diseases, or the improvements are imaginary or exaggerated. It's so hard to be sure when there's no way to physically measure ME.
...or go to the market and buy a bottle or package of each herb and spice. I think the chance of one of them having a positive effect is about the same as for 'potent' pharmaceuticals with nasty side-effects. Trying all the unusual ingredients at a TCM practitioner's shop would probably have a slightly higher chance. I do admit that the chance of gourmet jellybeans having a beneficial effect is probably lower than the above options, but not all that much lower (lots of weird chemicals in them), and they'd at least taste better.
antares4141
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It's tempting, and as you say maybe no less likely to be effective. Keep telling myself I don't want to shoot in the dark. Want to wait for some reliable information on how to treat my condition. Problem is I know that's not going to happen in my lifetime.
Yes, but that's the only option open to us at present. Eventually the sun will rise, so to speak, and we'll have some proper theoretical basis for selecting treatments to try, but we can't predict when that will happen. However, maybe right now there's something that could reduce one or more of your symptoms, and it's sitting on a shelf in a store nearby. Is it this bottle of spice, which has some healthy-sounding claims for it, or is it that bottle of artificial root beer flavour? Maybe it's the dragon fruit in the grocery isle. Maybe it's dragon fruit and real organic root beer, and you need to take both together four times a day while maintaining a fat-free diet. It is really daunting as an intentional task. My condition isn't all that bad, so I'm not trying all available possibilities. If I was more desperate for relief, I think I would experiment more with new things.
antares4141
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Mold and chemical avoidance almost certainly are helpful. Also found aspirin help with musle, joint's, and some of my brain or neurological symptoms. Doesn't cure the underlying problem though. I know testimonials are the worse kind of evidence for efficacy. But i would still be tempted to try some of the things you mentioned if a lot of people were using it and thought it helped them.
antares4141
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It's refreshing to see not everybody has jumped on the Keto bandwagon. I suspect the long term implications from this are going to cause a lot of people serious health problems.
I do eat meat but try to stay on lean meats, and no butter, oil, stoped buying nuts cause I couldn't control my impulses to munch on them. I will eat walnuts cause they are rich in omega 3.
I think the key is low fat, unless it's omega 3, low carb, lot's of protein, vegetables and fiber.
Short term you might not feel well after eating a meal like this but it is healthy for your circulatory system.
As opposed to the plaque buildup in your arteries that comes from high carb high fat diets. That and the inflammation that goes with it.
I gave it an admittedly half-hearted try once. It made me feel worse. Some might say "you need to stay on it longer", but since I had little expectation for it actually working for me, I didn't feel like putting up with the worse symptoms for some unknown length of time.
Last time I checked, most of the shine was off the "omega-3's are great for you!" fad. There's not much evidence that supplementing omega-3 oils actually makes a noticeable difference for most people. Deficiency might be bad, especially while brains are growing, but for most of us, a normal diet provides enough.
High carb doesn't seem to cause me any problems. I'm pretty sure that meat is making me feel worse again, and this time it's not just the fatty acids. I'm still experimenting there.
antares4141
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Didn't know the conventional wisdom had changed on this. I only get my omega 3 from food like avocado and walnuts, done flax seeds and chia seeds in the past.
I eat more carbs than I should also but all in the form of fruit, or whole grain rice, potato's, no butter, or sour cream oatmeal with raisons, etc..
I did recently get some cheese and that's a weakness and I've noticed my weight is inching up again.
I have found that maintaining a healthy weight has a lot more to do with choices than willpower.
I have a bmi of 22.5 down from a hay day of 28.5. Really all I do is limit my meals into a 7 hour window and I almost completely cut out junk food. The choices are very similar to what the food pyramid recommends except I do no oil, butter, or refined carbs, and I eat as many vegetables as I can stand.
I eat more carbs than I should also but all in the form of fruit, or whole grain rice, potato's, no butter, or sour cream oatmeal with raisons, etc..
I did recently get some cheese and that's a weakness and I've noticed my weight is inching up again.
I have found that maintaining a healthy weight has a lot more to do with choices than willpower.
I have a bmi of 22.5 down from a hay day of 28.5. Really all I do is limit my meals into a 7 hour window and I almost completely cut out junk food. The choices are very similar to what the food pyramid recommends except I do no oil, butter, or refined carbs, and I eat as many vegetables as I can stand.