Research paper San Diego University HHV6 and Myalgic Encephalitis

[godlovesatrier]

Hi all,

A friend just sent me this article https://health.ucsd.edu/news/releas...s-viral-immunities-come-at-lifelong-cost.aspx It says the research paper won't be available until May 1st.

Is this backing up a 3rd/4th time what Davis and Bhupesh are both seeing? It also dissuses CDR theory? I would be really interested to know peoples thoughts about the biological nature of CDR.

Electron micrograph of human herpes virus-6 particles budding from a cell.
The findings further illuminate a concept called cell danger response theory, which Naviaux and colleagues have been investigating for years. CDR theory posits that chronic disease is the consequence of the natural healing cycle becoming blocked by disruptions at the metabolic and cellular levels. In this case, persons with ME/CFS obtained protections against certain kinds of infections, but at a cost of fragmenting mitochondrial function. Persistence of fragmented mitochondria and the associated abnormalities in cell signaling block normal healing and recovery, and can lead to a lifetime of illness.

Hopefully I'm not re-posting old news.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Its all fascinating, thanks for posting this.

I am just really having trouble understanding the antiviral phenotype issue. And the assertion folks with ME don't tend to get "colds" or "other viruses".

Is there actual data to support that assertion? Just designing a study that might answer that question- sounds difficult.

 

[godlovesatrier]

@Rufous McKinney I know what you mean, lyme disease patients are the only ones to my mind reporting the colds and viruses thing. Although I bet you ME patients fall on both sides, I bet some of them (like me) don't have any extra immunity (as discussed in the paper) whilst others do.

Not aware of any data, I've only ever seen anecdotal evidence. Yes I think so too.

But this aspect of CDR is 100% new to me. I mean I am sure everyone on here is fully aware of the hhv6 foundation site, I found it 2 years back and the studies for ME and HHV6 are hardly few and far between:

I looked up Dr Lerner's protocol again and hte private cost for that is about £5000 a month. Assuming it was bought privately by an individual.

As for CDR I need to do some research, but you raise some very good points about the asseriton made here on the immunity increase.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

And we still don't understand what is causing- a common virus most everyone gets exposed to- leads to this ME stuff in some small subset...but WHY. Same with EBV, I guess. My brother had Mono and this didn't happen to him. It all happened to me.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Well I still keep saying it has to be genetic, you quite rightly point out, if you and your brother behaved differently, but everything else as the same, what else could it be but genes. @Rufous McKinney

To be honest hhv6, ebv - they could all be seperate mitochondrial fission subsets, where they all cause fission and breakdown, but by differnet cuases. For all we know all these different pathogens could simply be causing the same breakdown in mito cells.

When i first read this article though, my first thought was "Surely they mean that the reason behind this virus is because the circumstances within the host (us) is unique for these abnormalities to appear." That is to say, we must have a unique environment, just waiting to behave strangely, it has to be there at birth.

 

[junkcrap50]

Pretty sure this is just a press release for Prusty's research that was just published a few days ago. But good to see Naviaux's comments on it.

Original thread found here: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...agmentation-paper-pub-4-1-20-dr-prusty.79891/

 

[Rufous McKinney]

if you and your brother behaved differently, but everything else as the same, what else could it be but genes. @Rufous McKinney

A huge variable- besides he is Male and I am female (hormones affect the immune systems differently)....might be- some hypothesizing that my mother was very stressed when I was in utero...and I got a compromised immune system far worse than my brother did. I was an often sick baby and he wasn't. My gut wasn't set up right, but perhaps his did better. He doesn't exactly communicate these details with me. I had severe food allergies at One. He had: none of that either

We are quite different in personalities as well.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

For all we know all these different pathogens could simply be causing the same breakdown in mito cells.

that seems pretty likely. Maybe the tissue where these various viruses reside- varies.....so those effects may contribute to subtypes...

I definately feel that the ME I started out with and lived with for decades (55 years, mild)...changed into something far more pathological, more all exhausting, more overwhelming....including much more severe PEM and neurological crap.....all that has been the last- three years.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I was just reading Naviaux's article and even though it was an autism study that he did, this idea of cell danger response is actually very interesting. It also lines up with what Davis and Bhupesh are seeing, so that can't be a co-incidence surely?

https://www.omf.ngo/2017/10/19/treating-autism-and-mecfs-could-one-drug-do-both/

 

[godlovesatrier]

@Rufous McKinney Well based on Naviaux's ideas, the degenerative aspect of ME would make total sense. If someone had 70% cell danger response and they only had 30% left for healing. They might be fine for 10 years and notice a slow degeneration of symptoms due to that 70% cell danger response level. It would also explain why some people go a lot faster with the disease and early symptoms than others, but maybe not why it occurs to begin with.

Again it might be that you like me (my aunt has ME but has been in remission for a long time) behave differently to other family members.

 

[Matthew_2]

Does anyone know of attempts to take this line of research to explain the autonomic dysfunction that is common in ME/CFS?

 

[Tammy]

my mother was very stressed when I was in utero...and I got a compromised immune system far worse than my brother did. I was an often sick baby and he wasn't. My gut wasn't set up right, but perhaps his did better.

I imagine there could be 101 variables why two people can be exposed to a virus at the same time and only 1 person is chronically affected. Both my daughter and I were exposed to the EBV virus. My daughter's immune system took care of it (until later in college, it reactivated due to stress?). My exposure led to CFS. I was under a tremendous amount of stress 24/7. Was that a factor? I have no doubt that was one of many possiblities.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

My exposure led to CFS. I was under a tremendous amount of stress 24/7. Was that a factor? I have no doubt th

Well, I got much worse due to severe stress. I'm just figuring the stress my mom was experiencing...in 1953...wasn't good for her.

Who knows- this whole mess is a Forensic Challenge- When its gone on for so long...the history of Sick, often.

Doesn't feel like an antiviral phenotype...when one is sort of living in a viral soup.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

explain the autonomic dysfunction that is common in ME/CFS?

In my case- this neurological and autonomic dysfunction stuff- seems to be part of the worsening...was less of an issue when i was mild (the term didn't feel mild when one is living like this for decades)....and there is this collagen thing- that over time, muscle and collagen have broken down and I believe there is more brain inflammation, more compression of the lower brain stem- sending out the wrong messages, messing up lots of things. then the simple lack of adequate energy to perform- any task. Including send out proper instructions.

there are multiple things going on here- its not JUST exploding mitochrondria.

 

[GlassHouse]

I am just really having trouble understanding the antiviral phenotype issue. And the assertion folks with ME don't tend to get "colds" or "other viruses".

I wonder about this since I have clear documentation of active HHV7 infection but I get dangerously sick for months from all colds/ flus. Last year my husband had a cold for 3 days and was barely sick but I was bedridden for 4 months and developed a high fever. My whole life I’ve gotten very sick from all types of infection and that’s gotten worse since having ME.

I think there are some people who who stopped getting sick from other infections like cold/ flu and some people who started getting sicker but we still don’t know why there’s this split.

I’m excited that more people are looking into this. It would be fantastic if more and more scientists could collaborate on CDR, chronic infection, metabolic trap, the something-in-the-blood factor. Also how CCI/ AAI fits into it (maybe inflammation-induced collagen changes?).