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Relation between blood/oxygen and CFS

Jo86

Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
197
Location
France
Hey forum. I've had CFS for the last 15 years and I've only now just started thinking about the cardio/blood aspect of it. Tell me if these symptoms/reactions sound familiar to you:

- postural hypotension: standing up too quickly and feeling like you're traveling into another dimension.

- itchy legs during walks/exercise: a huge sensation of itchiness from my waist down to my calves when I haven't walked in a while. Due to your heart pumping more blood for the muscles.

- feeling like I'm out of breath after just talking to someone. Sometimes I'll feel like I really need a good 20-30sec to restore some breath in me, almost like just talking out loud was the equivalent of holding my breath as long as possible under water.

- huge malaise after just a bit of physical effort: lifting luggage or sth, and feeling like I'm having a sort of panic attack and need to be alone and lie down.

- CFS patients have been shown to have less blood volume in their bodies than regular individuals. Check out this video, it's not long:

- feeling like parts of my body lack blood circulation. In basic positions, I'll feel like one of my arms needs to be dropped downward and I feel the blood coming back. After lying down a little while, especially if it's hot, I feel like my legs need a minute to fill up on blood again. Didn't have this at all before.

Does this ring a bell to you ?
 
nerd

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
It's similar for me. I have low hemoglobin by the way, probably due to low-level hemolytic anemia. I still haven't found a solution to this group of symptoms.
 
barabara

barabara

Messages
52
My hematocrit was 43.7% in 2007, which was before developing symptoms of ME/CFS. It went up to 47.3% in the following test in 2013, then gradually went up to 52.0%, which was last summer.

Red blood cells and hemoglobin were also normal in 2007 and became above normal in 2013, staying that way. However, they were subject to fluctuation unlike hematocrit, which was always higher the later I was tested. My ME/CFS gradually got worse.
 
Jo86

Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
197
Location
France
barabara said:
My hematocrit was 43.7% in 2007, which was before developing symptoms of ME/CFS. It went up to 47.3% in the following test in 2013, then gradually went up to 52.0%, which was last summer.

Red blood cells and hemoglobin were also normal in 2007 and became above normal in 2013, staying that way. However, they were subject to fluctuation unlike hematocrit, which was always higher the later I was tested. My ME/CFS gradually got worse.
Click to expand...
Right, same with me. Most of the time, like 99% of the time, I read about ppl with a stable CFS. Like, a trigger occurs at some point in time and then they just, have CFS now. And the symptoms are more or less the same overtime, they just can't find a cure. With me, it's been a gradual slope the whole 15 years, meaning right now is the worst state I've been in. I thought for sure it was chronic infections at a point, the only thing that could explain a degenerative chronic disease was some foreign presence in my organism that just hadn't been dealt with. Tried a ton of antibiotics, all kinds of combinations, to no avail. I'm now thinking if it isn't a foreign presence inside me, it has to be some organ that's gradually losing vitality. Could it be some odd form of autoimmune condition ? Or is it just some heart problem perhaps, or sth else blood/oxygen related, that just never got addressed and so the organ (or body system) continues to fail more and more.
 
barabara

barabara

Messages
52
@Jo86 I think viruses, etc cause mitochondrial damage. This causes reduced CO2 production and reduced oxygen extraction.

https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2...-exertional-malaise-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/

Low CO2 production causes orthostatic intolerance, which is found in 90% of people with ME/CFS.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9731612/

Then OI becomes a downward spiral in itself. Low blood flow to the brain damages the autonomic system, this causes the brain to receive even less blood flow when one is in an upright position.

When mitochondria is damaged, the strain probably causes an immune reaction, rather than vice versa.

A similar reaction takes place in the brain when there's not enough blood flow. Strain releases chemicals like endorphins that cause brain deactivation (brain fog and PEM). In the past, when I became paralyzed and I had someone spray naloxone (emergency anti-opioid drug) in my nose, it restored clarity and movement. It would be useful in a pinch if I could get a prescription for that, but PEM during non-emergencies is probably protective against further damage.
 
nerd

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
barabara said:
@Jo86 I think viruses, etc cause mitochondrial damage. This causes reduced CO2 production and reduced oxygen extraction.
Click to expand...

It's not only mitochondrial fragmentation that is speculated to play a major role, but also the reduced oxidation capacity due to the secondary metabolical issues that interact with the NAD+ cycle. NAD+ recycling depends on oxidation, as do many other metabolic pathways. Once this oxidation capacity depletes due to overdemand, the whole metabolism can be brought out of balance.
 
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